Model '97 Winchester 12 ga. problem?

[Firefall]

Hello, I have a '97 Winchester which I use to turkey hunt. The gun is in very nice condition and is a takedown model made in the 19-teens.

I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on a problem I've encountered?

When I fire a shell and then reload, the forearm ("pump") sticks/locks solidly on the receiver until I jack the forearm ever so slightly back; then it performs fine. This isn't a feature of these shotguns, is it?

The problem makes it difficult to shoot fast followup shots when practicing and will fool you for a moment when you're concentrating on a turkey, fire it and wish to reload.

Have any of you experienced this or is it my gun?

Thank You,

darkop

 

[Jack2427]

Try a little lube, one of my 97s does that but, I just don't pay a lot of attention to it. Those guns tend to be a little stiff for the first couple of centuries or so..........

 

[Musketman]

Ah...this same exact problem was happening on a Mossberg 590A1 I saw from another forum. The conclusion on that thread was, it's not the gun, it's the shells. Some shells (usually the cheap ones) expand from the heat and are "stuck" in the chamber. It takes a good hard pull of the "pumP" to get the action back, and the shell ejected.

A solution is..either buy expensive shells, or slightly polish the chamber part that the shell is "smollen" up in.

 

[kirbythegunsmith]

Details

Musketman, you are correct in a detail that the economy shells of certain types are more likely to swell and stick (but not from the heat, from the pressure and excess size differential and/or smoothness of chamber wall in a few instances), and I fix more than a few chambers that are having a difficult time with shells. The heat condition may be a cause of extra build-up in the chamber from material shed from the plastic hull.

The following description is based upon my interpretation of the malfunction that Firefall is suffering.

The problem with the 97 mentioned is not of extraction of a sticky fired shell, but is a notable situation that arrives sometimes due to wear and aged dirt accumulation combining to reduce the free motion of parts. The leverage is against the pumping action at the beginning of the stroke, and sometimes a "running start" is helpful to re-situate the parts.

When the mechanism is pumped in the rearward motion and stops, the parts can be located at one side of the slack in the parts (and wear pattern), but a jiggle moves the parts to a more opportune section of the wear areas, so the parts mesh better for pumping in the forward motion.

The other notable is that the pumping action that lowers the carrier to accept the new shell from the magazine is on the opposite side of the carrier groove and action slide lug contact that raises the carrier with the new shell on board. A certain number of connected parts are also activated and/or go along for the ride, so to speak.
Each one adds an opportunity to increase the drag and the cumulative resistance increases with age and dirt concentration. The dirt can be an abrasive element that accelerates the wear, and this situation is not self-healing.

Your gun can be improved, but the level of existing wear will have a bearing on the amount of improvement.
The Winchester 97 is a complex gun design that is best not tackled by novice 'smiths, but is better to be mechanically improved by a Winchester specialist with some supply of parts.

Yes, I am a Winchester specialist and I have a pile of spare guns, as well as parts, for the 97's and others.

See my other posts for more insight from a gunsmith's perspective.

[email protected]

 

[Firefall]

Thank you kindly, fellows, for the help with my '97. I appreciate it very much. And please excuse my very belated reply as I've been sick for the past couple of weeks and couldn't respond.

Yes, sir, it isn't after a shell has been fired that causes the trouble but when loading a shell or unloading at the end of the day, unfired. And the description of "jiggling" the gun's slide forward a bit seems to engage the action to make loading go fine. But, if you only try to initially pull the pump back in the usual way, it is as though the pump is welded shut. (hope that made sense?) Pushing forward with the pump (forearm) and then backward, is now required to allow proper and quick loading. Quick followup shots as in turkey hunting is disabled with this problem.

I will certainly check for dirt and wear as kindly advised and see how I come out. This seems to be a problem that probably seen frequently with these older guns like mine. (made in 1916, take-down model) Also, if the problem seems to be major wear to the slide's action etc., I'll call on kirbythegunsmith for repair.

But this does describe my gun's problem to a tee and again I appreciate the help! It's nice to know someone has needed parts, too! I may need one to get my '97 shucking shells fast!

Sincerely,
Firefall