Modern Point Shooting

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Sighted fire is just as fast, and often faster, if scoring solid hits is your goal. Maybe "being sure of your target" is not a priority for everyone, but it is for me.

1) Sorry but this simply is not true, to bring a pistol to eye level from the hip is a greater distance then firing from the hip, and that increased distance takes more time.

2) The extension needed for sighted fire makes it easier for someone to grab the shooter's gun or arm.

There are times when sighted fire is absolutely the right thing to do and others when firing from the hip is the right thing to do, the situation will dictate when to use which, it's up to the individual to know this and be able to execute accordingly.
 
Glock Glockler wrote:

1) Sorry but this simply is not true, to bring a pistol to eye level from the hip is a greater distance then firing from the hip, and that increased distance takes more time.

2) The extension needed for sighted fire makes it easier for someone to grab the shooter's gun or arm.

You would be correct in those statements Mr. Glockler, except for what you speak of is not point shooting. It is contact shooting. If you are at contact range, where your gun could be grabbed, neither point nor aimed fire would apply. That is contact or retention shooting distance....basically the distance at which you could grapple with your opponent. And yes, I practice, teach, and present this method of shooting to my students.

Point shooting is a commonly misconstrued term and is the crux of some dissenting views, especially on this particular thread I have found, from two perhaps unopposing sides that may actually agree but don't understand the definition of what they speak.

Contact shooting is shooting from the hip or other retention position due to close quarters, hand-to-hand combat, etc. Point shooting is failing to use, or choosing not to use, the sights when you are capable of doing so. In essence, point shooting is having your weapon presented within the scope of your vision (generally just below eye level) but looking beyond or over the top of your sights in what some have termed "threat focused shooting." In this regard, and by all defintions except the uneducated ones, point shooting has the weapon in a position in which the sights could be used but are not based upon the principle of having the vision deliberately focused elsewhere than the sights.

Here is a picture of Rex Applegate, a practicioner and teacher of the point shooting method, and one of the people many on this forum like to quote and refer to. As you can see, his weapon is easily in a position to use the sights, yet he has chosen not to. That is point shooting.

Applegatepointshooting.jpg


That would also make Mr. Moore correct.
 
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Actually, if you travel around on the gun forums it is only a very vocal few that are anti-point shooting. The tide has turned dramatically and there is no way to stop the common sense that is coming out of the general public conducting properly structured FOF. Inside the circle of those that have participated in properly structured FOF, training is no longer about target shooting.....it is about fighting. My courses are doing great across the country, the book and the DVD are selling very well. This is because the "myth" of target shooting as a means of fighting has been exposed by FOF.....and being exposed more and more every day.

Here is one chapter of my book.


The Fallacy of the Retention Position and the Need to be able to Shoot Throughout your Draw Stroke

The retention position is another “Sacred Cow” that simply does not stand up under critical thinking or inside “force on force” (FOF) training. The idea that you have only one position that will take care of the full spectrum of retention problems, that you may come across, is simply ridiculous. If you adopt and train in only one retention position, then you are forcing a suboptimal “niche” technique into a concept driven, continuum based skill set. This “force fitting” of techniques to replace fluid concepts is the undoing of the “technique driven” training of the recent past.

As in almost anything that we do in regards to self defense, there is a continuum in regards to retention. This continuum is once again based on the distance of the threat and the dynamics of the encounter. The distance aspect of this equation speaks for itself. The main goal is to protect your gun, gun hand, and gun arm by “extending out” only as far as is needed, dictated by the difficulty of the shot. This concept is very cut and dry….at least until we add in the variables of the dynamics of the encounter. It is the “dynamics” that much of the training of the recent past has completely ignored. The context of the fight dictates the amount of extension of the gun that is allowable and necessary. The weapon and the forward drive of adversary are additional factors that must be considered. Your movement response to these factors also must be taken into consideration.

As we recognize, once again, that this is not a “one size fits all” world and that the situation is the dictating factor it is plain to see that having only one retention position ties our hands is so many ways. Retention is a concept…..not a position. It is a fluid skill set….not a locked in positional technique. The retention positions that I have been taught in the past were geared towards very limited situations. On the most part they were stand and deliver techniques that were only good at “hands on” bad breath distances. Now this may be good for “one foot” but what about one yard, two yards, three yards, four yards, against a knife, against an impact weapon, with dynamic movement, and after you have gone “hands on” and created some distance?

From my experience with FOF, I feel that we all need to start considering retention at about the four yard mark. The reason for this is simple. Remember the retention main goal;

“The main goal is to protect your gun, gun hand, and gun arm by “extending out” only as far as is needed, dictated by the difficulty of the shot.”

Four yards with two men extended towards each other is really only a two yard gap. A two yard gap can be close by a stationary adversary in around .5 of a second. Contact at .5 of a second….and that is without a weapon that extends the adversaries reach. Factor in an adversaries forward drive and the time is considerably less. To come out to full extension on an adversary within four yards is just daring for a gun grab attempt or an attack on the gun hand and arm. By compressing the gun inward you accomplish two very distinct things, you take the gun further out of reach and you let the adversary know that you are not an idiot. Projecting the gun is a fool’s mistake. By compressing the gun you are limiting the adversary’s choices and possibly taking away his best choice.

If we accept that compressing the gun is a good tactic at four yards, well then it is obvious that compressing it even more so, is a good tactic, as the distance decreases. If all of this sounds familiar, it is because this concept has been around since the 1930’s. Fairbairn and Sykes understood the need for a fluid retention concept. Quarter hip, half hip, and three quarter hip were designed, in part, with the main goal in mind. One thing that we need to keep in mind is that these “hip” positions are just points that you can flow to and through. They are not “set” positions….. they are fluid points that had to be given names so that they could be discussed. Work the concept not the technique!

This concept of retention is so far superior to a retention position. It takes in the reality of a violent encounter…..which is all based on distance. The fluid use of kicks, punches, strikes, the use of a knife, a sword, etc, etc are all based on distance. To have only two shooting positions make as much sense as having only two ways to strike.

As we look to the dynamic movement skill set, it is very important to consider retention as we work the oblique angles or parallel tracking. At certain distances, with certain movement we actually close the distance. This fact must be kept in mind. Do not project the gun and open yourself to an attack on the gun, the gun hand, or the gun arm.

If we look at retention from an open minded point of view, it becomes very apparent that any retention training that does not incorporate quality, fluid, combat proven point shooting skill sets is simply training to be ineffectual.
 
This is a commonly misconstrued term. Contact shooting is shooting from the hip or other retention position due to close quarters, hand-to-hand combat, etc. Point shooting is failing to use, or choosing not to use the sights, when you are capable of doing so.

Site your sources on this definition.

History states that you are wrong.

Read "Shooting to Live" from the 1920's and 30's.

The picture of Applegate, the gun is at chin level. Use a straight edge on his gun.
 
No offense, but I'm still waiting for you to detail these two different sets of fundamentals that you claim exist. I saw earlier where you detailed the fundamentals of marksmanship, and spoke of the fundamentals of combat shooting, but that second detailing was more of a description of marksmanship fundamentals being applied than an entirely different set of fundamentals.

I find it telling that so many combat vets teach marksmanship fundamentals in their courses and dont make claims of there being a mythical second set.

No offense taken.

Why would I be offended that you do not understand because you do not know what you do not know?

It's like explaining sex to someone that has never had sex before and has no intention of ever having sex.

(No offense, but I could not think of a better analogy than that)
 
Sweatinbullets,

No offense, but remind me not to buy your book. You just spent a full 10 paragraphs (or chapter as you say), saying nothing. I don't think anybody has ever said that contact range or retention shooting is confined to a singular position, yet you spend 10 paragraphs arguing against contact/retention positions based upon that definition.

This concept of retention is so far superior to a retention position.

Do not project the gun and open yourself to an attack on the gun, the gun hand, or the gun arm.

...and these statements are new and enlightening in what fashion?

Site your sources on this definition.

Well, other than just about every credible and well known authority on the subject, common sense would tell you there is a huge difference between point shooting and contact/retention range shooting. But if you'd like to know, look it up. I really have no interest in further researching the point shooting apologist's view. I have done it for way too long and therefore reached the logical conclusion on the subject.

But, so as not to make you think I am avoiding the question, you throw out the name of your favorite point shooter. In reply, I will find where they give their own definition that is in accordance with what I have reiterated. It may take me a bit or two as I tend not to have those books on my shelves, but I will find it if you choose.

History states that you are wrong.

How can history state that I am wrong on a definition?

The picture of Applegate, the gun is at chin level. Use a straight edge on his gun.

Last I checked, the chin was just below eye level. I don't need a straight edge for that. Thanks for proving my point. He could have used his sights without any additional time wasted.

You feeling ok today sweatnbullets? You seem to be confused.
 
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sweatinbullets

Roger has now written seven point shooting course curriculums for Suarez International, including his flagship course PSP, PSP/FOF, PSP/Fighting at Night, Long Gun PSP, Advanced PSP, Introduction to Point Shooting, and Point Shooting Gunfight Skills. Roger travels all over the country teaching these courses.

No wonder you're offended by those who oppose point shooting on an intellectual and experience level. It is the core of your livelihood. I'm sorry you feel attacked for that. I am simply trying to have a discussion based upon the merit of the tactic and the basis for your belief in the system.

Sweatinbullets, what is your experience? From your site, "Roger has had extensive “tactical” training starting in 1999 and has taken over fifty courses as a student since that time. Roger has logged over 1500 hours of formal training as a student."

Since you purport your experience in the chapter you posted, could you tell us what your experience is based upon? I'm not kidding or being smart. I think that it is important, even vital, for people to know the basis for the teachings that someone is presenting. If your answer is what I read on your website, which is that you have trained under everyone else, can I take that to mean that you have no actual real world, law enforcement, combat, military, lethal force incident, or other experience? I'm not knocking you if you haven't. You would fall into the majority. There's nothing wrong with being a student. I just want to know what makes you an instructor. I just want to know the basis for your superior claims.

You will find my bio on my website. No, nothing special. I simply put it out there so anyone will know the basis of my knowledge and decide for themselves whether I am a book jockey, student only (and I will always be a student), or seasoned professional tactical operator and instructor.

This does directly relate to point shooting. I find that most point shooters have been range trained, and feel that it is a tactic that works well on the range but not so well in real life.
 
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Actually, if you travel around on the gun forums it is only a very vocal few that are anti-point shooting. The tide has turned dramatically and there is no way to stop the common sense that is coming out of the general public

I don't consider the gun forums to be "the general public". Of the shooting world, those who frequent and post on the forums are the minority.

I'm also not bothered by the fact, if it is one, that anti point-shooters are also the minority. We have the best shots on our side. Having more people buy into a method doesn't make it valid, only popular.
 
No offense taken.

Why would I be offended that you do not understand because you do not know what you do not know?

It's like explaining sex to someone that has never had sex before and has no intention of ever having sex.

(No offense, but I could not think of a better analogy than that)
I must say I do enjoy the way you act like you have the whole combat shooting thing nailed and others don't. So, what are the fundamentals of combat shooting (since I missed them the first go around).
 
sweatinbullets

there is no way to stop the common sense that is coming out of the general public

Now there's an oxymoron if I've ever seen one. I really hope that is not the foundation of your response.

I've been chasing criminals and teaching police officers how to shoot since 1995. Let me tell you the first thing I learned. Just because a tactic is widespread and in common practice does not mean that it is based upon sound principles. Those that teach faulty methods are at best presenting a technique whose effectiveness is marginal. At worst, their teachings are being continually passed on to those who depend upon the quality of that very instruction in life threatening situations, hopefully without the dire consequences that could be associated with that particular technique.

I'll be in the minority every time if it means winning.
 
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Jscott,
Don’t let me side track you from your debate with Mr. Phillips because you have made some very good points. Personally, Mr. Phillip’s over use of the word continuum makes my head hurt and makes me wonder why I ever coined the phrase fight and sight continuum because he has really gone to town expanding it! However, the core of what he teaches is solid material but I’m not sure of his end product because I have never seen it. Moreover, I take exception with the following statement you made:
I find that most point shooters have been range trained, and feel that it is a tactic that works well on the range but not so well in real life.

Since a person’s experience is important to you: My experience with point shooting started when I was thirteen when my father took me to shoot my first full auto Thompson. Shortly after that, I was taught point shooting by my grandfather who served with the Marine Raiders in WWII. I started my military career in 1988 and went to Iraqi in 1991 and then was assigned to a training battalion where I taught both sighted fire and quick fire (pointshooting) with pistol and rifle. I have also been chasing criminals and teaching law enforcement officers since 1995 and point shooting is a part of my curriculum because it works in just the places where you claim it doesn’t. Moreover, I would not be here today if I hadn’t used it to save my own skin in Iraq.

Just for the record before you try to shove this round peg into the square point shooting only hole…I believe in the integration of sighted and point shooting into a single package with the sighted shot as default and point shooting falling into the picture based on the distance to the target and the urgency of making the shot when a sighted shot is not possible or applicable.
 
Forgive me for saying so, but I tend to pay less attention to the people who have a commercial interest in seeing the method they espouse be proclaimed the only valid method. That comment applies to both sides of the argument. I can hardly expect someone to act against the best interests of their means of making a living, but sales pitches are never unbiased.
 
7677,

Based on your response I am probably not extremely far off from your line of thinking.

...with the sighted shot as default and point shooting falling into the picture based on the distance to the target and the urgency of making the shot when a sighted shot is not possible or applicable.

I would agree with that, but where some would mistakeningly call any form of unsighted fire point shooting I would not. I do understand, present, and teach shooting without immediate reference to the sights.

My belief is that if sighted fire is not possible than point shooting would not apply. My working definition of point shooting is having the weapon just below eye level, or within the field of vision, yet choosing not to utilize the sights even though you could. If you cannot use the sights, based on close quarters, etc. just as you say, than a form of contact or retention position would be the choice. I simply do not understand why someone would bring their weapon up within their scope of vision but choose not to use the sights. It seems to me that if you can point shoot you could use your sights.

Unfortunately, I think much of the debate stems from the misunderstanding of the term point shooting. Too many people take it to mean any form of shooting in which the sights are not used, and it is not that inclusive.

...point shooting is a part of my curriculum because it works in just the places where you claim it doesn’t.

I would never say that point shooting has not worked. I would, however, say that if a person utilized a point shooting technique than the sighted fire would have worked just as well if not better. I mean, if the weapon is already there within the scope of vision, why not put that front sight on target? It takes no more time.

Thanks for the input. Like I said, based soley on the post you just made I'm not sure we are that far apart.
 
^ that is where I'm at on it. The techniques point-shooting uses to drive the gun can be employed with sighted fire, with the added bonus of a sight picture and feedback from the gun.
 
"Forgive me for saying so, but I tend to pay less attention to the people who have a commercial interest in seeing the method they espouse be proclaimed the only valid method. That comment applies to both sides of the argument. I can hardly expect someone to act against the best interests of their means of making a living, but sales pitches are never unbiased
How true.
7677--Good to see you on the boards again.
 
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All about Aiming and Being Inclusive

As long as we keep the correct context of the fight in the fore front, this inclusive approach is a very good way to train. Fluid concepts that flow through the situational dependent aspect of the fight will be better than set techniques......any day of the week!

With these truths in mind, while working varying distances, needed precision, time pressure, position in the reactionary curve, necessity and type of movement, necessary visual input of the entire encounter, and retention considerations it is plain to see that it is not a "one size fits all world."

Here is the full sight continuum as I see it (opinions may vary) As individuals, I feel that we need to find out what is necessary for us to see, at a personal level, to be able to make the hits inside of the correct context of the fight.

Gun focus

Hard Focus on the top edge of the front sight
Hard focus on the front sight
Solid sight picture
Flash sight picture
Shooting out of the notch
Front sight only with focus on the gun

Target focused

"Type two focus" Focus on the threat with a fuzzy sight picture
Front sight only with focus on the threat
Aligning down the top of the slide
Metal and meat (silhouette of the gun)
Below line of sight with peripheral vision input of the gun

The last one works all the way down to "half hip." If you can see your gun in your peripheral vision your brain will use that information to help facilitate your hand/eye coordination.....whether you want it to or not. That is what the brain, eyes, and body does.

There are also point shooting and body indexed firing position with zero visual input on the gun.

There are muscle memory techniques such as Quick Fire which relies on punching/driving the gun to the targeted area.


I know that many people will say that this is too complicated. But it really is not as long as you have the fundamentals down and you have the basic knowledge of “seeing what you need to see.” This does not mean that we consciously pick and choose between thirteen different options. It just means that we know exactly what we need to see and do (as individuals) to make the shot within the correct context of distance, time, needed precision, and movement.

The focus of my handgun courses are usually from seven yards and in. This is the “most likely” situation for self defense shooting. Due to recent church and mall shootings this “most likely” aspect needs to be supplemented with additional skill sets. These skill sets leave behind the threat focused world of close quarters combat and leads us into alternative aiming methods and a versatile approach to the use of the sights. This seamless integration of body indexed skills, point shooting skills, alternative aiming methods, and versatile sighting methods is the only way to cover the entire fight continuum.

Most of my students come to me with solid sighted fire skill sets. Most of them can use their sights while using controlled movement. My job is to give them additional skill sets to go along with these skills. This makes the focus of my course point shooting and dynamic movement. But there must be a clear and seamless integration between what the student already does and what I teach them. To do this you must integrate the reactionary continuum, the movement continuum, the draw stroke continuum, the sight continuum, and the trigger and grip continuum into one “just do it!” concept. This can easily be accomplished as long as the curriculum is set up in a building block approach and you have the drills in place that solidify the concepts.

I have begun using the “zigzag” drill in all of my courses. I usually run it out to twenty five yards so that the student can see the difficulties of shooting on the move at these distances. This drill really nails down the continuums of the fight (except the reactionary continuum, but I have other drills that work that one.)

As we look at the drawstroke continuum it is plain to see that there is no "one point" better than another. Full extension is great for marksmanship, but it sucks for retention and when the urgency is so high that we can not get to full extension before being shot. Half hip or count three has limited marksmanship, but kicks ass for retention and when the urgency is extremely high. Three quarter hip or mid point is simply a compromise between the two. It is a balancing point of marksmanship, retention, and when the urgency is high.

"The fight will be what the fight will be." If we can all agree that the context of the fight is the dictating factor, then it is clear that a fluid, sliding scale approach, that covers the dynamics of the encounter in the most effective and efficient manner as possible, is the very best way to go.

To have full extension and one retention position as your only options force fits these skill sets into sub-optimal positions in the fight continuum, positions where they are simply not the most effective or efficient response within the correct context of the fight. By being more fluid we can work the draw stroke continuum in conjunction with the fight continuum. Where the gun is drawn and used at the optimal position within the balance of speed and accuracy, taking into consideration the retention and visual input needed, while keeping within the main goal of "to hit and not be hit."

Guys, this all sounds complicated......but it is not. This is what people with good instincts do. This is what they do when they are under pressure and working at the subconscious level. That makes this as uncomplicated as it can possibly be. To accept what your "good instincts" want to do is never a mistake. For those that do not have good instincts, this stuff can still be taught in very short order.....it just has to be explained and drilled. Let's face it, not all of us have good instincts....and that is why we seek out training....to improve where we might be lacking.
 
This was written over a year and a half ago. So it is not meant as an attack on anyone. It is just a chapter out of my book.


The Inclusive Approach, a Novel Concept!


We have the proactive gunfight and we have the reactive gunfight. Each one is very different and require different skill sets in order to be the very best that you can possibly be.

The proactive gun fight requires "the fundamentals of marksmanship."

(1) Grip
(2) Stance
(3) Sight alignment
(4) Sight picture
(5) Trigger control
(6) Follow through

Anyone who is not brain dead knows that we all need these skill sets.

The only gunfight that is better than a proactive gunfight is the gunfight that you completely avoid. But the bottom line is that criminals are not stupid. They usually deselect the aware, they usually move on when they see a challenge. They are usually waiting and watching for the unaware.....the easy marks. They are usually waiting for the opportunity where everything is in their favor....where they have the drop on the victim.

So, the realistic chances of a typical civilian defender, to be in a proactive gunfight are very low. So the question that has to be asked is why is there such a focus on the proactive gunfight for so many of the instructors out there?

The reactive gun fight requires "the fundamental concepts of combat shooting."

(1) A completely versatile dynamic movement draw stroke (which includes the cover garment clearance, acquiring a firing grip, the Pekiti footwork, and the ability to drive the gun to the focal point)

(2) One handed skill sets that rival your two handed skill sets

(3) A completely versatile and fluid retention concept

(4) Well rounded threat focused aiming skill sets

(5) A movement based shooting platform that takes into consideration the consistent index, the typical physiological response for incoming rounds, and something that facilitates the dynamic movement that is require to dodge the adversaries aim

(6) Athleticism to be able to explode off of the X with speed and agility. Athleticism that gives you everything that you need to make yourself more difficult to target

(7) The physical strength and ability to integration H2H skill sets with your handgun skill set. You need to have the strength, the knowledge, and the training to get the adversary/weapon off of you, so you have a chance to get your handgun into the fight.

I have said this many times and I know that many people disagree with it. But I stand by it.....

"The fundamentals of marksmanship have next to nothing to do with the fundamentals of combat shooting."

They are two completely different animals!

Anyone that is "exclusive" and not "inclusive" is only looking at half of the picture.

My point is that the MT folks see the proactive gunfight as being the "overwhelmingly most likely encounter." This is something that makes absolutely no sense to me. They also feel that if you practice the fundamentals of marksmanship enough, you will be able to improvise and adapt to anything that may come down the pipe. This falls into the whole "why prepare....just react" stupidity.

When we look at the flight or flight response of a truly reactive situation, we need to understand what happens to us when the Sympathetic nervous system (SNS) kicks in. The loss of fine motor skills such as those that are used in the Weaver and for trigger control needs to be taken into consideration. We also need to look at the effects on vision when the SNS is activated. The dilation of the pupils that make it impossible to focus on near objects needs to be understood and the training needs to work within these facts.

This stuff is not brain surgery.....it is caveman simple!

(1) Distance equals time

(2) Who has the initiative and to what extent do they have that initiative equals time

(3) Time equals urgency

(4) Urgency equals the extent of the activation of the SNS

We have conditioned responses and we have natural responses. When the urgency is high, the ability (or common sense) to be able to use conditioned response is highly unlikely. When the urgency is low we are in a much better position to use our conditioned responses.

Urgency low = proactive = conditioned response = conscious thought = fine motor skills

Urgency high = reactive = natural responses = working at the subconscious level = gross motor skills

Oh yeah.....and it is all a continuum!

My courses are very advanced and involved course. I used to take for granted that everyone that enrolled in the course would have solid fundamentals of marksmanship skill sets. As the courses grew and as the student numbers rose, it has become clear that a good number of students did not see the fundamentals of marksmanship as a necessary prerequisite to learning the fundamentals of combat shooting. They have laid down their priorities in a manner that was different from the path that I had taken. My thoughts on this are "who am I to question somebody else’s priorities." I have zero idea of their situation.

At first this concerned me. But they proved to be safe. They had the draw stroke down, they had the manipulations down. They had just never been formally trained in the fundamentals of marksmanship. Being the type of instructor that I am, I saw this as an opportunity to learn. An opportunity to see if the fundamentals of marksmanship were a necessary skill set before the fundamentals of combat shooting.

The results of these tests were astounding to me. These students rocked this extremely difficult course. It has been proven to me over and over and over that the fundamentals of marksmanship have next to nothing to do with the fundamentals of combat shooting. The students can excel to a level that most people believe to be impossible without knowing the fundamentals of marksmanship. They can excel to a level that rivals any of my "solid fundamental" students.

Now, this does mean that these students still need the fundamentals of marksmanship taught to them and they are told that. Their ability to rock and roll out to seven yards was amazing. But once they needed the sights their lack of training in that skill set did show up.

So, what I have seen, from my experience is that you can arrive at the same destination without taking the same path.

I stick by my original statement.

"The fundamentals of marksmanship have next to nothing to do with the fundamentals of combat shooting."
 
As individuals, I feel that we need to find out what is necessary for us to see, at a personal level, to be able to make the hits inside of the correct context of the fight.

ASOLUTELY!! Spot on!

Gun focus etc...

Target focused etc...

All of these techniques revolve around the fundamental of "Aiming", and are simply modified to meet a particular situation and or criteria. While approaches to training differ depending on the particular needs and resources of the shooters, the classic sight picture is more often than not taught as the foundation technique as it more readily highlights faults in other fundamentals, which are then identified and corrected. With this foundation built, it is easier to incorporate different aiming techniques to meet the needs of different target scenario's.

All of these techniques are used in competition, as well as defensive shooting, and they all use some type of visual reference to place a shot as accurately as it needs to be, based on target size, range, and time available. Brian "see what you need to see" Enos wrote a book long ago that covered many of these approaches to aiming, and these techniques are used, and have been used, by fast and accurate shooters for years and years. HOWEVER, some top shooters are just not as capable, or willing, as others to articulate the finer points of their technique.

There are also point shooting and body indexed firing position with zero visual input on the gun.

There are muscle memory techniques such as Quick Fire which relies on punching/driving the gun to the targeted area.

When I see imagery of Col. Applegate's point shooting techniques, I see the need for a strong understanding, and the application of, good stance, grip, trigger control, and follow through. While he has modified how those fundamentals are implemented, they are still as important to any shooter, in any shooting discipline.

New shooters are more likely to throw fundamentals out the window until they realize that they pulled their shots NOT because they were moving or didn't have time, but because they had a crappy grip, their body position didn't facilitate recoil management, they didn't use an aiming technique, had terrible trigger control, and didn't follow through with the shot. All fundamental errors.

While I will agree to disagree about the difference between "marksmanship fundamentals" vs. "combat fundamentals", I will agree that you do have some good information to offer those seeking to hone their defensive handgun skills, as I've used many of the same approaches throughout the years, some taught, some learned.

Good luck.
 
On Being “Inclusive”

It is impossible to look at one aspect of the fight without looking at the intertwined skill sets that make up an effective and efficient response to a life threatening encounter. This thread started out being about aiming, but it is impossible to look at effective and efficient forms of aiming without taking into considerations the situational elements. The situational elements have been pretty well laid down in the past. They are as follows;

Who are you?

The single most important factor inside of the “situation” equation is YOU! This is the one known variable. This is the one variable that you have complete control of. This is the one variable that has (or should have) received the most thought and preparation.

What is your mission? What is your strategy? What is your mindset? Who are you to your very core (genetically?) How much experience do you have in violent confrontations? What is your training level? What is your skill level? How old are you? How big or strong are you? What level is your athleticism? What are your strengths and weaknesses? These are all questions that we need to ask ourselves and answer truthfully, without ego. These are the questions that will give you the answer to the most important questions of self defense…..”What do I really need?”

Position in the Reactionary Curve

This position is all dictated by who has the initiative and to what extent do they have the initiative. You can be proactive, you can have equal initiative, you can be reactive where you are behind in the reactionary curve, you can be way behind in the reactionary curve, and everything in between. The average time that it takes for someone to react is around .25 of a second. If you are in a truly reactionary mode .25 of a second is really the very best that you can hope for. A quarter second is an eternity in a gun fight. Your position in the reactionary curve has a huge effect on your options during movement, draw stroke, aiming, and grip/trigger.

Criminals are not stupid. They want what they want and they want it in the easiest manner as possible. They cheat! They lie, deceive, distract, and wait for the perfect opportunity to attack, in order to gain the initiative. They understand initiative and use it to dominate the encounter so they can get what they want as easily as possible. We must understand that we will most likely be behind in the reactionary curve….because if we are not (due to awareness)…..then we will most likely be deselected.

Distance
Distance is key, every aspect of fighting is dictated by distance. It does not matter if it is H2H, knives, guns, artillery, etc, etc distance considerations dictate the best strategy, tactic, and technique. Distance equals time! In a gunfight, distance will dictate whether you have to go “hands on” first, whether you have to concern yourself with retention so that you do not hand your adversary your gun, whether you can go to full extension, or whether you just “Get the heck out of Dodge.” Distance also has a huge effect on your options during movement, draw stroke, aiming, and grip/trigger.

Criminals use distance to dominate the encounter. They get in close, because they understand that distance equals time also. The less distance, the less time, the more likely that they will get compliance from the victim.

Situations dictate strategy, strategy dictate tactics, and tactics dictate techniques.

As we look at these realities, it is plain to see that the focus on the “proactive” gunfight in the past 50+ years was an “exclusive” approach to training. It excluded the fact that we are all different and that we bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. It excluded the fact that our mission or strategy was very different from that of law enforcement or military application. It worked under the myth that awareness, along with stand and deliver sighted fire was all that you would ever need.

By being inclusive and understanding that situation is the dictating factor, we can pick and choose the very best strategy, tactics, and techniques for the specific situation. By owning skill sets and concepts that cover the complete fight continuum we are in a much better position to fight the fight…..no matter what it is. Learn the concepts, work the concepts with the context of the fight in mind, and ingrain the concepts through mental imagery of the situation. When you need the best solution to a specific situation, the response will be there at the subconscious level.

Be inclusive, understand that everything has its place inside of the fight continuum, work it all taking common sense into consideration. When the pressure is really on, the most logical response will be happening before your conscious mind has even had the chance to have gotten into the fight.

A quarter second is all the time in the world, if it is your final quarter second. Put in the work to be the very best you can be inside of that quarter second. This goal can not be reached without being inclusive and without putting in the work.
 
Sweating bullets, If I may suggest one thing for you. Do some editting of your video before placing it on your websight. You are using this to promote your company and show how effective your training is; however, at about the 30 sec mark the shooter (you?) runs dry and seems almost dumbfounded. He looks at the weapon like "what the hell", completely takes his eyes off the subject, then finally reloads and engages the target. That few seconds of oops could turn off alot of people from taking your course.
 
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