Monte Walsh

[halfmoonclip]

Just watched Selleck in Monte Walsh; pretty fair bittersweet western. Happened to notice a couple gun related things.
Shorty's character, Walsh's sometime friend, draws a bead on him with a SAA, plainly holding the revolver right handed, but using his left eye to sight. His character also uses an 1887 lever shotgun, with a lot of padding on the buttstock.
For anyone who has read the book, did the author make an issue of Shorty's crossed dominance affecting his shooting ability, including his use of a shotgun, rather than a rifle?
Thoughts?

 

[bangswitch]

I haven't read the book (maybe I should), but have you seen the earlier film version (1970) starring Lee Marvin as Monte? The dialog is very similar as are the scenes and storyline, but Selleck plays a more laid back and smoother around the edges character than Marvin did. It's more the individual acting styles of the actors than the direction I believe. Both are great cowboy flicks.

As for the cross dominance, I can't answer. That seems odd to do it that way in the film unless the actor was cross-dominant and it was more natural for him and otherwise didn't matter, or there was a purpose for doing it, such as accuracy from the storyline in the book that might have made a difference in an outcome.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Cross eye dominance is a non issue with handguns... an example we're all probably familiar with is Hickok45, right handed, shoots handguns with his left eye...I noticed it in his videos very early on, he did mention it and explained it in a video several years ago.

As for rifles... my wife and youngest son are both right handed and left eyed, they shoot handguns with their left eye and long guns with their right eye.

I taught them both how to shoot, since they started from the beginning using their right eyes with rifles neither of them ever noticed it was a thing...

Eye dominance can be overcome, even for older people, but if a person is started out right from the beginning it simply doesn't matter all that much.

The same is true for left handed... if a person first learns to do a thing right handed, they'll always feel comfortable doing it that way.

The human brain is a remarkable piece of equipment, it can adapt and overcome.

 

[Art30/30]

I read the book when I was 13 years old, 40 years ago! Ha! I don’t remember any mention of eye dominance or Shortys weapon of choice. I just remember it was a great book

 

[halfmoonclip]

As for the cross dominance, I can't answer. That seems odd to do it that way in the film unless the actor was cross-dominant and it was more natural for him and otherwise didn't matter, or there was a purpose for doing it, such as accuracy from the storyline in the book that might have made a difference in an outcome.

Shorty's character is prone on a boxcar, watching Monte's approach through a stockyard chute; the scene has the camera pointed directly at him, as he lines up the revolver, right handed, in front of his left eye. Presumably, the shot is too far for his shotgun. This scene, and the padded butt on the '73, said that someone was gun savvy.
I'll have to keep an eye open for the Lee Marvin version.
Moon

 

[jmr40]

Just a guess, but it probably wasn't by design. The actor playing Shorty probably wasn't a gun guy. Used properly a handgun is normally shot with both eyes open and held in the center. Eye dominance shouldn't be a problem. The actor was probably left eye dominant and the script called for him to hold in his right hand and he just held the gun that way. No one in production or editing caught it. Or if they did decided it wasn't worth shooting the scene over.

I've seen both movies several times, but never noticed that. Now I'll have to make a point to see it again soon.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

as for cross eye dominance, I tend to disagree. I am now 73, and my granddad started my brother and I shooting his semi auto 22 when I was 10., and my brother was 8. He wanted us to shoot right handed, right eyed.
Neither of us could hit the broad side of a barn that way. When we switched to left handed, left eyed and did great and continued to this day. In fact all of my brothers are left eyed dominant.
we all shoot a rifle and a bow, left handed. We are all right handed, but our left eye is and was so much stronger than our right eye, that we could not adjust to shooting the other way.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

My late brother Kermit shot handguns this way due to a combination of right-hand dominance and weak vision in his right eye. He learned to shoot shoulder arms left-handed, but was more comfortable with a handgun in his strong hand.

I've developed problems with the vision in my right eye that may eventually drive me into the same situation, but I'm planning to explore eye surgery options in another year or two.

I just pulled out my DVD and refreshed my memory of the scene. I'm not familiar with the actor playing Shorty. Westerns from director Simon Wincer usually have pretty good firearms content, so there may be some interesting back story going on there. It's been too many years since reading Schaefer's novel to recall whether the Shorty character had a bum eye or some other relevant trait.

BTW, did anyone notice that the two Carradine brothers Keith and Robert both appeared in this film? The one other western I recall them in together, along with half-brother David, was The Long Riders. FWIW I think Monte Walsh was the far better of the two films.

 

[Bobaloo22]

My brother is right handed and has been shooting left eye for over 50 years and he is an excellent shot. He just had cataract surgery and now he’s 20/20 in both so I wonder how he’s going to shoot now.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

A movie I should watch again soon.

Cross dominance is not an issue. An excuse, maybe, but it doesn't slow down a good shooter even a little bit.

 

[doubleh]

I don't even pay attention to mistakes in movies anymore unless they are very obvious and glaring. I watched a trailer this morning. It was about a gal that wrecked her car and woke up in a hospital bed with a large bandage on the front left of her forehead. Then the camera pulled back and it was on the right side and she felt of it with her right hand. Then the scene returned to a close up and the bandage was back on the left side. Now that is a very obvious boo-boo.

I read the book long ago and remember nothing about the eye-hand thing and doubt it would have been mentioned. My favorite part of the movie is at the end when the jalopy is stuck in the mud, Monty jumps his horse over it and rides away, and the smile on the wife's face as she watches him. Until reading this post I never knew Lee Marvin did a precious version. I will try to find it.

The human brain is a remarkable piece of equipment,

It is. My 12 year old gg daughter is a lefty in both hand and eye but shoots right handed. It's completely natural for her. The first time I handed her a rifle,a little Daisy Buck BB gun, she put it up to her right shoulder. She is as close to being ambidexterious as anyone I have ever encountered and If she is doing something that is a little awkward with her left hand she just switches to the right.

I was born a lefty but broke my arm when very young. I can still remember the ride into town, looking at the x-ray, and that it didn't hurt much. I was so young the doctor splinted my arm with 2 tongue depressors instead of putting a cast on it. Six weeks later I was right handed and never switched back to my left. After eye dominance became a thing I checked and I am right eye dominate. Was I born that way or did my very young brain change my eye dominance as I learned to be a righty? No way of knowing but I have always been curious.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Used properly a handgun is normally shot with both eyes open and held in the center.

Due respect, but that isn't necessarily true, nor how many here learned to shoot.
When taking on new shooters, (NRA class) checking for a master eye was one of the things we did. If they had crossed dominance, they were encouraged to adjust by how they held their gun. With long arms, it comes down to using the wrong eye, the wrong hand, or a really weird cripple stock. At least handguns are easier.

Both eyes open is a relatively new phenomenon, one that I've adopted. It also works well with red dots. But whatever the technique, your master eye still determines what you're looking at.
But Shorty's character very deliberately squints his right eye, and lines the gun up with the left.
I'm just spitballing, saying that scene, plus the use of a shot gun, might reflect on Shorty's marksmanship. Or it may just be a weird mistake.
Moon

 

[doubleh]

My brother is right handed and has been shooting left eye for over 50 years and he is an excellent shot. He just had cataract surgery and now he’s 20/20 in both so I wonder how he’s going to shoot now.

I had it done in 2020 and it did not change my eye dominance. Otherwise it is a fantastic sight improvement. Iron sights are usable again, night vision is much better, my slight double vision disappeared, no more star burst around headlight or other lights at night, and no more glasses needed except for really small stuff. Good shades have become mandatory again for outside in southern NM sunlight though.

Not everyone can shoot with both eyes open. I worked hard at doing it and it just doesn't get it done for me. I finally gave it up and returned to shutting my left eye and I am more accurate that way. It was a case of trying to fix something that wasn't broken.

 

[armoredman]

All I can say is I am right handed, left eye dominant, and I had never even heard of eye dominance when my Dad taught me to shoot - I just shot right handed. Flash forward MANY years, in the Academy, and the class Sgt had us do the eye dominance test. Huh. He told me I would shoot left handed. I told him I would shoot right handed and would take the top shooter spot in the class. I did, and I did.

 

[gobsauce]

My eye dominance changed after a nasty eye infection made me patch my right eye for about a month straight.

I keep telling myself that I'll fix that, but never got around to it.

 

[BreechFace]

I told him I would shoot right handed and would take the top shooter spot in the class. I did, and I did.

Nice!

I've wondered the last few years as I have a younger daughter that is right handed and left eye dominant. I've been told to teach her to shoot rifles with her left, but I'm of the mind to just get a patch for her left eye and force right eye focus on rifles for a period of time and then remove the patch as she becomes accustomed to it.

Once I saw her shoot and struggle to get her head behind the sights, I immediately had her do a quick eye dominance test there in the field as I was unaware of this about her.

 

[doubleh]

've wondered the last few years as I have a younger daughter that is right handed and left eye dominant. I've been told to teach her to shoot rifles with her left, but I'm of the mind to just get a patch for her left eye and force right eye focus on rifles for a period of time and then remove the patch as she becomes accustomed to it.

I am somewhat against forcing a kid to change something that is physical. My daughter is right handed and left eye dominant because she was born a lefty and the thinking at that time period was to train a lefty to use their right hand as it's basically a right hand world. No one seemed to have known anything about eye dominance at the time and we made her learn to use her right hand. Fast forward a few years, eye dominance had appeared, and I started teaching her to shoot. She would shoulder the little 22 right handed and try to get her head in position to use her left eye to aim. Uh-oh, let's test for eye dominance and it proved to be her left eye. I told her she had three choice she could make, learn to shoot left handed. learn to shoot using her right eye, or not shoot at all and she could choose. She chose to learn to shoot right handed and went on to embarrass some teen aged boys. When we gang up to go shoot steel she still hangs with the best of us. She is now a grandma that is still left eye dominant with severe astigmatism.

I have already told the story of my 12 year old great grand daughter that is both left handed and left eye dominant but shoots right handed like it's a natural thing for her. I have also told of being born a lefty and due to breaking that arm at a very early age becoming a righty by the time my arm came out of the sling. My parents didn't force me to return to using my left hand, no one was aware of eye dominance at the time, and I have done just fine. Individuals are quite different and capable of learning how to cope without being forced into it. If you desire to do something bad enough you will learn how.

Here is one more example. Frank Frazetta, one of the best IMO artists that's ever lived had a stroke in his '70' and could no longer draw or paint with his right hand. He taught himself to do it left handed.

 

[tark]

I am left eye dominant and right handed. I have just learned to use my right eye for everything.

As an interesting aside, My mother was born in 1906. She was left handed by birth. She was not allowed to stay that way. In school, she was forced to do everything right handed until it became natural for her. This was done because it's a "right handed" world. Times were different, back then...

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

all I can say is my three brothers and I are all left eye dominate, and when my grandpa tried to teach us to shoot, right handed , none us could even get our left eye down to look at the barrel. We could not see well enough to enough to hit the barn.
much less the barn door. That all changed when we taught ourselves to shoot left handed. We all shoot left handed, both a rifle and a bow. Our left eye was much stronger, and still is even though we wear glasses

 

[J-Bar]

Monte Walsh is a prophetic movie; men witnessing a permanent change in a way of life they loved. And it's sad because they can't withstand the causes of change. I identify with and sympathize with Monte and Cal, especially while watching the evening news.

Just to keep the thread about guns...

Shorty's revolver was on display at the NRA Museum in the Springfield, Missouri Bass Pro Shop. One of several movie props in the display.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

In 1973, my brother was stationed at GEORGE AFB, just down the road from Edwards AFB in California. I was on leave enroute to the US COAST GUARD RADIO STATION SAN JUAN PUERTO RICO.
He took me to Apple valley, to the ROY ROGERS MEUSEUM, and that place had more movie guns than I have ever seen in one place. was amazing