Elkins45
Member
You make my point for me. At this point it's only a name.
More Bad news from Colt
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Aragon
member
No, I didn't make your point for you. You suggested there was nothing unique that Colt could provide -- which is untrue. They are they only ones that can provide a Colt.
More than a name. Tradition, heritage and pretty decent guns to boot.
Elkins45
Member
I beg to differ because you exactly made my point for me. In my last sentence I said "Face it: nostalgia is the only real business advantage Colt has."
By asserting that only Colt can sell you a Colt you reinforce this statement.
Aragon
member
Wrong. Heritage, tradition and value (Colts hold their prices better than their competitors) is far more than "nostalgia."
CoalTrain49
Member
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=027c&mid=534200
This is a Winchester rifle made in Japan. People buy these things, don't ask me why but they do. Probably a bunch of old fat guys that want to dress up and play cowboy. This is the nostalgia/tradition/history buff, call it what you want, market.
This is where Colt or at least the name will go. Repros built in another country. Actually it's really the only place it can go. Any new company will not be able to compete with larger established companies who are building the things that Colt builds like AR's and 1911's. That business is dead and gone.
Just from some of the posts here I see a real lack of interest for the AR/1911's that Colt builds. People want good quality and a good price. They don't want to pay extra for a name. That got Colt where it is today. Recently I have seen some very low prices on some Colts by "stocking dealers" but it's too little too late.
If you want the real deal you better buy one soon. Everything from here on will be just a licensed copy of a gun that was once built here.
This is a Winchester rifle made in Japan. People buy these things, don't ask me why but they do. Probably a bunch of old fat guys that want to dress up and play cowboy. This is the nostalgia/tradition/history buff, call it what you want, market.
This is where Colt or at least the name will go. Repros built in another country. Actually it's really the only place it can go. Any new company will not be able to compete with larger established companies who are building the things that Colt builds like AR's and 1911's. That business is dead and gone.
Just from some of the posts here I see a real lack of interest for the AR/1911's that Colt builds. People want good quality and a good price. They don't want to pay extra for a name. That got Colt where it is today. Recently I have seen some very low prices on some Colts by "stocking dealers" but it's too little too late.
If you want the real deal you better buy one soon. Everything from here on will be just a licensed copy of a gun that was once built here.
Tommygunn
Member
[QUOTE="LINKED ARTICLE http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=027c&mid=534200" ]Cowboy Action Shooters love the reliable Model 1873 because it fires the same ammo as their revolvers.[/QUOTE]
"....old fat guys that want to dress up and play cowboy...."
Well, a couple months ago I bought a Miroku - built Winchester 1892 Limited Deluxe Takedown model.
Because I thought it was a beautiful rifle.
Sorry Winchester is NOT actually making any guns in New Haven any longer. My 1892 has the "Winchester" name on it but was made in Japan. I have a 1894AE made circa 1990 that WAS made in New Haven, and a "Winchester " 1873 saddle-ring carbine made in Italy -- by Uberti. It is probably very similar in quality as the '73 referenced in the OP's linked ad. Miroku may be slightly higher quality .... and as I understand it the Miroku '73 has some safety features added the original rifle lacked.
Yes, these guns are loved by "cowboy reenactors" but also by others who just love old timey guns.
You act as if the Winchester name was bought by some second rate Japanese company. FN bought the Winchester name to run alongside their Browning brand. They are only making the lever action rifles at the Miruko factory, which has always made the Browning Citori shotguns, and pretty much any Browning long gun for decades now. It is one of the top firearms factories in the world. My new Browning T-Bolt .22 rifle was made there and the craftsmanship is outstanding, both in looks and performance. FN was making the Winchester Model 70s in South Carolina in their plant there, but are now having them assembled in Portugal like they've been doing with HiPowers since the late 1970s.
Having political concerns with outsourcing to Japan is one thing, but having quality concerns is quite another.
I'd look at Fender outsourcing to Japan in the 80's as an example. '82-'15 MIJ/CIJ guitars are some of the most sought-after guitars in the biz. My kingdom for a '96 CIJ Tuxedo Telecaster.
I'd look at Fender outsourcing to Japan in the 80's as an example. '82-'15 MIJ/CIJ guitars are some of the most sought-after guitars in the biz. My kingdom for a '96 CIJ Tuxedo Telecaster.
Elkins45
Member
Most colts holding their value today do so through either historical significance (old SAA's) or artificial scarcity (snake guns). These all have one thing in common: they are guns of the past. I don't believe 1911's made by Colt in the last 25 years will have the sort of special cachet that makes the currently hyper-inflated guns desirable.
Look, I don't hate Colt. I just doubt their economic viability as a company because nobody will want to collect what they are putting out now. I know when I think of gun makes the name Colt hardly enters my mind...and when I'm browsing the shelves of the local gun stores I rarely see a new Colt except for a couple of 1911's that one guy has been holding onto for a couple of years now. Yes, it is absolutely true that guys will snag an old Colt revolver, Commander or Government Model that hits the used shelves, but that means nothing. Colt can't make more old used guns.
The value holding or collectability of guns made 50+ years ago doesn't translate to the current production. That's kind of like saying GM is a viable car company because the '57 Chevy was such a great car.
Colt receives $0 every time a Python changes hands at $3K.
CoalTrain49
Member
Never said that or even hinted at it. I know the quality of FN and Miroku. I've owned plenty of their shotguns. I have a "Winchester" shotgun built by Kodenshu, but in my mind it isn't a Winchester anymore than one built by Miroku no matter what the quality is.
As I said, there is a market for these reproductions. I don't know of any that are built in the US and most are modified in some way to enhance safety or shootability if that's a word.
I see a slim chance that Colt could end up being owned by a custom or semi custom builder here. 1911 and SAA limited production might be a winner for a small shop. They won't be cheap though.
Aragon
member
The Winchester name is owned by the Olin Corporation. It is licensed by Belgian Herstal Group which owns FN. Kabushiki Kaisha Miroku has always made excellent firearms.
Aragon
member
I'm sure whomever takes over Colt will have to be cognizant of its heritage. Had Ford bought Harley Davidson back in the day, that would probably have been OK with most Harley buyers. It would have been entirely different had Honda bought Harley.
When Harley needed help designing an inline 4 several years ago, it went to Porsche and not Yamaha for the same reasons. A Porsche design would likely have been palatable. A Yamaha design probably wouldn't have sold.
I don't know what sort of overall shape they are in today but Remington might actually be a decent parent for Colt if their other operations are finally hitting on all cylinders.
When Harley needed help designing an inline 4 several years ago, it went to Porsche and not Yamaha for the same reasons. A Porsche design would likely have been palatable. A Yamaha design probably wouldn't have sold.
I don't know what sort of overall shape they are in today but Remington might actually be a decent parent for Colt if their other operations are finally hitting on all cylinders.
Colt makes a very good, competitively priced A/R. You really think a Uberti is the equal of a Colt SAA? Colt 1911s are well priced for what you get, the cheaper 1911s don't have forged slides and frames. My new Gold Cup shoots better than my Dan Wesson Valor.
Aragon
member
It's clear that some opining about Colt haven't shot their current offerings or even surfed their website. Colt does make good firearms. That's lost on some.
I'll add to that that IMHO the new Colt Mustang .380 is the best .380 on the market. Unlike the Ruger and Kel-tec varieties I used to own, mine is accurate, reliable, and comfortable to shoot.
Elkins45
Member
I fully realize that Colt makes good guns. I just don't know if they make and sell enough of them to stay afloat, given all of their troubles. Making quality guns is only a part of the equation needed to be a successful gun maker. Colt has demonstrated an astonishing degree of tone deafness when it comes to anticipating and meeting market demands in the past. Frankly, I don't see that changing without another management purge.
ColtPythonElite
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Sounds good. If they can dip a new 70's Series National Match under a grand, I will take one.
Who is now producing a comparable gun for that price?
ColtPythonElite
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Colt was....I bought a brand new 80's Series GCNM in January for $985 shipped.
RustyShackelford
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Shooting Sports Retailer....
I was reading over a few articles on a US gun industry website called Shooting Sports Retailer.
They listed a few news articles about Colt. They used the phrase Colt Defense a few times too which I thought was removed in 2014.
Colt is trying to set up a long term plan to fund the company thru 2023.
I doubt Colt's leadership can go that long without major $$$ or revisions.
I was reading over a few articles on a US gun industry website called Shooting Sports Retailer.
They listed a few news articles about Colt. They used the phrase Colt Defense a few times too which I thought was removed in 2014.
Colt is trying to set up a long term plan to fund the company thru 2023.
I doubt Colt's leadership can go that long without major $$$ or revisions.
SSN Vet
Member
That means they are looking for more suckers to loan them money, so the top execs can use that money to pay themselves bonuses.... just like they did with all the other creditors money.
Colt has been raped by pirate corporate execs gone wild.... and they totally got away with it.
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