Mosin nagant m38 as a Scout/shtf weapon?

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I have an M44, and I have to say that I love the gun. The M38s I hear are nice too. The problem is that by the time you find a scope mount and scope, get the gun tapped and mounted, you just spent twice the cost of the gun.
 
There are scope ounts that replace the rear sight, and are easy to mount. the belt handle bolt body is around, and can be had from TG Guns and Numrich, I think. Much better than butchering the 65 year old bolt to "bend" it. Stocks are out from ATI and such, too, that require no alteration. I love my M38, (I have said it enough time here, by now!), and think it's just great the way t is....though lately I've wondered what it would look like on a nylon stock in Natural Gear camo....:rolleyes:
 
I think it would work great assuming you don't precieve a need for a high volume and rate of fire in the SHTF, which is entirely possible and maybe probable. I turned my M38 into a psuedo-scout, just removed the old rear sight and base until I got the flat part on the barrel, then drilled and tapped to mount a really low LER mount. Put on a cheap pistol scope and it's always worked great. However, be sure you're comfy with the durability of your scope, since you'd be without iron sights in the SHTF if it broke. Anyway, i think they are very handy and more wisely kept in their standard, iron sighted configuration.
 
They worked well enough when the SHTF in Stalingrad, Moscow, Berlin, Chosin, Norway, Poland, etc.
 
Darrells Scope mounts have one for the M38....that'd be an impressive Scout Rifle. Having said that...to me...a SHTF rifle should be:

1.) Iron sights on it, because hey...the SHTF and batteries for your red dot or replacement glass may not be available....unless you are using one of these.. www.scoutscopes.com ....and I only recommend them because if the scop breaks you use the base as an open sight.

2.) Semi automatic. At a close distance a thug with a cheap 9mm will beat an old bolt action unless you nail him with the first shot. A good thing to note about thugs....where there's one...there's more. Thus a Semi Auto would work better in an urban enviroment.

3.) The caliber should be big enough to hunt with.

4.) The gun should be "weather resistant" and not break when it gets cold.

5.) It should shoot cheap, very available ammo.

You seem to have met all but the semi auto requirement....but if you are in a rural area, then you probably don't need it. If you are in an urban area...I recommend a Semi Auto.

As for scouting it for a general purpose hunting rifle...you're good to go.
 
I did an M44/Scout conversion and really like it. I think I will re-do it using an M38 however, to eliminate the bayonet mounting. Go for it.
 
M44 is slow to load (no reliable clips), slow to load shot to shot (stiff bolt), but handles well and shoots through cover.
 
I just bought an M38 from big 5 for $79.95 and I want to make a Scout/shtf rifle out of it. is this a good idea?
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Yes.

IF. . .

1.) You have to get some original Russian stripper clips for it to reliably load quickly. They will have the Ishevsk mark (arrow in triangle) on them.

2.) The scout scope is a good, tough, reliable one. Think about the Leupold 2.5x IER scope. Yes, it's $200. yes, it's worth it. Mount it to a Daryll's mount.

3.) Keep the rear sight leaf and spring, oiled to prevent rust, with the rifle in some way (maybe in cleaning kit, etc). This is in case the scope buys it, you can just put the rear irons back on.

I "scouterized" an M44 (because it has a better bolt throw and much better trigger than my M38), and it's a great rifle.
 
I strong advise against trying to hack and slash a Mosin carbine into a standard American hunting rifle.

It's a waste of time and money, aside from the moral issues of hacking an innocent carbine up. If you want to mount a scope on it, get one of Darrell's excellent scout mounts. The Mosin carbines make very good scout rifles. They're not terribly accurate, but will give you acceptable groups out to 100 meters.

You can also put Mojo sights on it which act like ghost rings.

The problem with M-38's is many of them have seen horrible abuse, been rebored and counterbored. The end result is a Mosin with an unusually large bore size and a crown inside the barrel. If you can't hand pick your M-38, the Polish M-44's are a better bet. They were lightly used and many were never even issued.

Also, a Mosin with well-matched parts should not be stiff or slow. That's a sign that the rifle is a parts gun that was never adjusted at the arsenal. Most of the Polish M-44's are all matching. A good mosin's bolt should feel loose and funky, like it's kinda falling apart. It's a very different feel from a Mauser bolt, but trust me it works. I can fire off rounds from my Finns every bit as fast as any Mauser.
 
Also, a Mosin with well-matched parts should not be stiff or slow. That's a sign that the rifle is a parts gun that was never adjusted at the arsenal. Most of the Polish M-44's are all matching. A good mosin's bolt should feel loose and funky, like it's kinda falling apart. It's a very different feel from a Mauser bolt, but trust me it works. I can fire off rounds from my Finns every bit as fast as any Mauser.
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I'll second that. My first two Mosins were all matching (got lucky, I didn't even know to look for that, they were my first milsurps) and I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about with Mosins feeling slow and clunky. Then I got a mixmaster. . .
 
I don't think much of the idea. Using a mil surp, obsolete, oddball caliber weapon as your last ditch rifle does not seem a good idea. There are better choices. Anything you do to it would cost more than the rifle.
Course there is a cult following for obsolete Commie guns, and more power to those folks, but its not a course I would take.
 
I did an M44 w/B-square mount and BSA 2xpistol scope in an ATI stock. It did just fine. A friend offered to buy it from me to hunt with at a much greater price than I had in it. So he owns it now. I did another M44 with the MOJO sights. I like it, also.

With the availability of ammo and the price of the guns and stocks, it can be a fun and interesting project.
 
I have several C&R rifles. The last purchase was a MN-38. It cleaned-up well and is a neat little carbine. It is much handier than any of my Mausers and is was my truck gun. I wouldn't scope it, but like the idea of Mojo sites. I think it is a fine truck gun. That said, the sites on the gun are pretty rough. It lacks the fit and finish of the Mausers and since I want to simplify, 'll probably end up selling it and sticking a Mauser M48A in my truck.

Personally, I think the best bargain on a shtf gun is an SKS. I only have one, but plan on buying more. While it lacks power compaired to 7.62x54 and 8mm, it's 10 round capacity and fast reload make it a better personal protection arm.

tjg
 
Mannlicher said:
I don't think much of the idea. Using a mil surp, obsolete, oddball caliber weapon as your last ditch rifle does not seem a good idea. There are better choices. Anything you do to it would cost more than the rifle.
Course there is a cult following for obsolete Commie guns, and more power to those folks, but its not a course I would take.
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Thems fightin' words! :D 7.62x54R ammunition is both inexpensive and widely available, and the Mosin-Nagant platform is one of the toughest and most reliable ever made. They can remain in active service for over a century, and have. They are tougher than any modern production rifle I know of.
 
Well...I'm not going to take up a cause...but an M44 or 38 would make a fine brush gun. An SKS would make a fine SHTF rifle AND a hunting rifle. Yes...it only holds ten rounds...but add that to fire discipline and something like a red dot or accurate irons...and you are LETHAL to 100 yards.
 
I've got an M44, and I love it. The M38 is also a great choice.
Here's my M44. Bought at Big 5, $79.95. Got brass strippers clips on ebay, 5 for 99 cents.
They suck, except when used with some Czech surplus silvertip stuff I found at a shop here in San Diego.
m44_case.jpg
 
dasmi said:
I've got an M44, and I love it. The M38 is also a great choice.
Here's my M44. Bought at Big 5, $79.95. Got brass strippers clips on ebay, 5 for 99 cents.
They suck, except when used with some Czech surplus silvertip stuff I found at a shop here in San Diego.
m44_case.jpg
Click to expand...
hey Dasmi, im in San Diego too. where can you go shoot Rifles at, I shoot my pistols a Discount guns.
 
I don't think much of the idea. Using a mil surp, obsolete, oddball caliber weapon as your last ditch rifle does not seem a good idea. There are better choices.
Click to expand...


You obviously don;t know much about the 7.62x54R. The round has been in service for over a hundred years and is still in action today. Modern match loads of 54R are still used in TIGR and SVD marskman rifles in Russia and easily shoot 1 MOA groups, and with a good marksman, even tighter.

Some people still hold a grudge against Eastern Bloc and Eastern European designed weapons, but what they fail to recognize is that some of these weapons are some of the best designed and best functioning weapons in the history of small arms. Cold War social conditioning taught us everything Soviet was bad, but now that the Cold War is over we need to get over that conditioning and accept that these are great weapons.
 
Obsolete caliber? Sir, the 7.62x54R is the longest serving military cailber in the world, currently still in production for light machine guns worldwide, first entered service in 1891. Surplus ammo is available in huge cheap lots, such as the Polish 440 round tims from J&G for $31.91, plus about $15 shipping, (to my address, at least), or the Czech Silvertip light ball, 780 rounds for $57.08 plus shipping. Hard to beat the cost of the rifle and ammo, and the sticking bolt is a product of the cosmo the Russians used to ppreserve the rifles in those unused train tunnels. Get a shotgun brush on a cleaning rod, chuck it into a cordless drill, take it to the range, and fire one round, drill the chamber while warm. Repeat about 5 times, good thorough chamber cleanings, lots of degreaser and patches, and wham - silky bolt, even with milsurp ammo.
Or just go buy a Savage 308 bolt action, stick a cheap Tasco scope on it, and call it a day.
 
I setup my M44 with one of darrells scout mounts several years ago, put a 2.5X on it. I removed the bayo for better balance but can reattach if I want. Got a bunch of good steel stripper that work great. Love the steel core 147? grn ammo. Great reliable rifle, very hard hitting. Would be good against cover or vehicles. I do want a longer bent bolt to improve reloading speed.
Have a buttstock ammo pounch and under it I have secured my rear sight parts and a small wrench to remove the scope if it fails. If you get a polymer stock there is often a hollow space in the back for such stuff, I have a Rem 700 in 30.06 with 18 rnds some matches, wax paper and a small pocketknife inside the stock.
 
Student--that's a great setup. I don't understand why people want to bash the entire bayonet mount off when it takes about half a minute to pop the blade off. This resolves the barrel-heavy feel of the rifle.
 
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