most American of all rounds

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

was reading on another site, and question was asked what was the most American rifle and pistol cartridgeTo me for rifles would be the 45-70, still going strong after 150 years, and the 45 colt (aka 45 long colt also going strong after 150 years.
Most versitale round would be 30-06 for rifles, closely followed by 308 winchester, and for pistols 45 acp, followed closely by 38 special. Now to some older folks those two pistol rounds would be reversed,

how do ya'll feel

 

[BreechFace]

22LR

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

a lot could be said for that one too. It is the oldest round still manufactured

 

[.45Coltguy]

Handgun, .45 Colt would be hard to beat.
Rifle, man, that's a tough one. As mentioned, 45-70, 30-30 has to be thought of and of course, 30-06.

Edit: 44-40 is another. Rifle and revolver back in the day.

 

[dodo bird]

I am going to be flamed but don’t care. Today it’s 556/223 and 9mm by a large margin.

 

[Slamfire]

I was going to suggest the 44 Magnum, as Elmer Keith (American Cowboy) was the primary advocate. But someone would point out, the pre cursor was the 44 Russian.

However, I can't remember any European precursor for the 38 Special. Truly one of the best revolver cartridges ever developed.

The 38 Special was extremely popular prior to the high capacity nines. Thirteen round magazines sort of buried it for Law Enforcement.

I am of the opinion, the Europeans did not have a 45 ACP equivalent.

 

[.45Coltguy]

^^^Yep.^^^

 

[mcb]

It all started with a few Brown Bess'es

 

[edwardware]

.30-06, for it's place in America's contribution to WWII.

. . . and the 45 colt (aka 45 long colt. . .

<rant>
No, the .45 Colt is not also known as "45 Long Colt". There is no such thing as a "45 Long Colt", or a "45 Short Colt" for that matter. That there are Shorts and Longs in .38 and .22 does not magically make 45 Colt "Long". Kids these days. . .
</rant>

Seriously, I suggest Mermelstein's Guide to Metallic Cartridge Evolution if you want an overview of the field. It's a great read.

 

[Mk-211]

Youuuuuuhooooo.

 

[jmr40]

the 45-70, still going strong after 150 years,

That would need an asterisk beside it. The 45-70 was a huge flop originally. It was designed as a military round during the Indian wars in the 1870's. It proved to be a poor choice and was basically dead by the 1890's.

While it's been around for 150 years it lay dormant and rarely used for the better part of 100 years. Marlin re-introduced the 1895 rifle in an improved version in 1973 to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the 45-70. This came with a lot of creative advertising and hyperbole about how powerful the round is.

Modern loadings are pretty potent and capable of any game animal in North America, but hunters in the 1800's considered it suitable for deer, but nothing larger. It was never used for large scale bison hunting. Even with that 45-70 didn't really become popular until around the turn of the 21st century. I'd wager it has killed more game in the 21st century than the 19th and 20th combined.

The 30-06 gets my vote for the most American rifle cartridge. It has only recently started to wane in popularity but had a solid record as both a military and hunting cartridge for 120 years. It was originally introduced in 1903 as the 30-03 and slightly modified and renamed in 1906. In a few more years the title may well go to 223/5.56. For handgun rounds I'd have to go with 45 ACP and 38 Special.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I have to be honest, my granddads were both town marshalls back in Oklahoma in the 1920s and 1930s. That was during the oil boom in Oklahoma, and it was a wild and wooly place. They always laughed at folks that call it 45 long colt, as there was in reality no such thing. That actually got started in the 1930s to diffentiate it from 45 acp and 45 Schofield.
My two granddads both carried COLT SINGLE ACTION ARMY'S and either Winchester or Marlin rifles in 44-40. or 45 colt for pistols and 44-40 for their lever guns. The truth is that same 44-40 is still being produced today, and originally probably out passed the 45 Colt for popularity. Especially since it could be carried in both pistols and lever guns
But today it is pretty much forgotten except for cowboy action guys and gals. If I am not mistaken came out with the 1873 Winchester and Colt pistol at about the same time.
And of course is no such thing as 45 long colt, is strictly the 45 colt

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

But I do think both Henry and Rossi produce lever guns for the 44-40.

and for those who put in the 30-30, if anything has killed more game in this country than the 30-06, it would be the 30-30.
but has been around since 1894 or 1895. and I remember as a kid almost everyone that hunted had at least one 30-30. At that time was not the same with the 30-06.

 

[Coyote3855]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this article. It's all over the internet. As is the speculation that "long" was used if only informally to differentiate between .45 Colt and .45 Schofield.

45 Short Colt

.30-30 arrived in 1895.

 

[Ethan Verity]

a lot could be said for that one too. It is the oldest round still manufactured

Technically 22 Short takes that prize, being 30 years older than 22LR (from 1857 vs 1887).

 

[.308 Norma]

the most American rifle and pistol cartridgeTo me for rifles would be the 45-70, still going strong after 150 years

I guess that really depends on what you mean by "going strong." And I know the 150-year-old 45-70 isn't "still going strong" in all parts of the country - if it ever was.
I've been around big game hunting my whole life (75 years), been participating in it myself for the last 60 years, and I've never met anyone out here in Idaho that used or uses a 45-70 for big game hunting. I've met a few guys that use 45-70s for BPCR competitions, but I've never met anyone that uses one for big game hunting.
Okay, okay - I'm sure, in a few minutes, there's going to be someone come along on this world-wide message board and tell me they're an Idaho big game hunter that uses a 45-70. I've still never met you.
Just because 45-70s are popular back east doesn't mean they're all that popular everywhere in America. And I hardly think that just because a cartridge has been around for 150 years means it's "going strong." My .45-110 (2 7/8" case) has been around for 150 years too, and while it had a brief resurgence in popularity when "Quigley Down Under" came out, I'd never say it's still "going strong" and one of the "most American of all rounds."

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

the truth is that 22 short is the oldest self contained metalic cartridge, Has it killed more game, no, but probably killed more stuff in a shooting gallery,

I guess every one has their own opinion, probably the 22 short, 30-30, and 44-40, have killed more things than any other cartridges, and a shotgun has killed more than those combined.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I was stationed in Kodiak, Alaska, twice, from 1975 - 1978, and 1983 - 1986, and both time the state fish and game department recommended to have on hand at all times against bears,
The Marlin 45-70, and a good 12 guage pump shotgun with slugs.

and that round was alive and well in Alaska

 

[.308 Norma]

I remember as a kid almost everyone that hunted had at least one 30-30. At that time was not the same with the 30-06.

You see, I believe that's another one of those "it depends" (on what part of the country" you're talking about. When I was a kid (in Idaho) a lot of folks used "thuddy-thuddys" too, but 30-06s were (and still are) as common as fleas on a dog.
I've had a Model 94 30-30 myself for a long time, but I've used a 30-06, and now a .308 Norma Magnum for big game hunting a lot longer. I sight both my 30-06 and my .308 Norma Mag in to hit dead on at 250 yards - because that's an average shot in the areas where I hunt.
Oh, I just thought of something - why wouldn't the .308 Norma Magnum be a candidate for "the most American of all rounds" contest? What I mean is, I first became acquainted with the .308 Norma Magnum in the early '60s during what has been called "the magnum craze." And Norma Ammunition Company was loaning reamers to American gunsmiths so that they could convert American hunter's 30-06s to 30 caliber magnums - .308 Norma Magnums.

 

[StrawHat]

All I know is the more I use the 50-70, the less impressed I am with the 45-70. I am down to three (3) rifles shooting the 45-70, from over 15. If I need something flatter shooting than the 50, I grab the 405 WCF.

Kevin

 

[Jim Watson]

.45 ACP.
Few other nations‘ soldiers can handle its Manly Power.

 

[Bcwitt]

I am going to be flamed but don’t care. Today it’s 556/223 and 9mm by a large margin.

Umm, 9mm is German. No flame attack, just sayin.

 

[W.E.G.]

Nobody in for 6.5 Creedmoor?

I'm stunned!

 

[Bcwitt]

Youuuuuuhooooo.

View attachment 1171344View attachment 1171345

Remember. That is basically a scaled up 30-06.

 

[Bcwitt]

was reading on another site, and question was asked what was the most American rifle and pistol cartridgeTo me for rifles would be the 45-70, still going strong after 150 years, and the 45 colt (aka 45 long colt also going strong after 150 years.
Most versitale round would be 30-06 for rifles, closely followed by 308 winchester, and for pistols 45 acp, followed closely by 38 special. Now to some older folks those two pistol rounds would be reversed,

how do ya'll feel

Id have to agree w you.