most American of all rounds

For vintage cartridges I think of the 45-70 and 44-40. For modern times I pick up more 9mm and 223/5.56 brass than any others.
 
dogtown tom said:
.455 Webley Auto not count?
It's pretty darn close and there were Colt 1911 in that caliber bought by the Royal Navy.
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Maybe I should have said pre cursor. The 45ACP goes back to 1905, exactly who designed it depends on what reference book you read. The 455 Webley Auto, I don't know when it was invented, but the Webley self loading pistol was after the 1911, and more or less, a curiosity. Take a look at the 455 Webley Auto, the case rim is 0.500 and the case body is 0.478". That is a semi rim cartridge. Case is longer, and the velocity is a lower.

Was not successfull, the British preferred to stay with their revolvers. Actually not a bad choice, The 455 Webley revolver was an excellent fighting revolver. Big, heavy, soft bullet, low recoil. Top break and great pointer. It was meant for close and personal, and it worked.
 
tarosean said:
That is more of a Law issue.. would more germans carry if they could? despite our huge ppopulation advantage.
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Per capita I doubt it. Obviously
tarosean said:
That is more of a Law issue.. would more germans carry if they could? despite our huge ppopulation advantage.
Click to expand...
Germans don’t have a self defense culture. They have a history of following their government rules. We don’t have to bring up WW1 or 2. More recently they followed government advice with the Wuhan virus to a T. I am not trying to knock Germany. It is a wonderful place to visit. If anyone has to a chance to they should try. They don’t have the 2nd amendment or gun culture. From what I have seen the only country in Europe that a gun culture is Czech. Then again I haven’t been everywhere. I travel to Europe often and always look for gun stores. Only ones I have seen are in Czech. The other countries just have pellet guns for sale.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 
Introduced at the start of the American Century, it’s the 30-06. Two World Wars a good chunk of the Cold War. Still going strong 120 years later. Parent to several fine cartridges that are themselves very American.
 
BreechFace said:
22LR
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Just finished up a new one today.
Got everything, including eye relief set, rings just snug. Got to level and plumb line the vertical cross hair and run it in.

Put a BX trigger in there before I even fired it.
I have BX triggers in all my 10- 22's so they all pull at 2 1/2- 2 3/4 pounds. A good bit cheaper than those big name and IMO, break just as clean.
20230919_185927.jpg 20230919_185938.jpg 20230919_190011.jpg
 
Late to the thread but I got to throw 30- 30 Winchester in there. Another one that morphed from a black powder cartridge.

I've loaded some 30- 30 and 7.62X54R with real black powder that I made just to see if it would work. It does.;) Smokes a LOT tho.
 
Big7 said:
Late to the thread but I got to throw 30- 30 Winchester in there. Another one that morphed from a black powder cartridge.

I've loaded some 30- 30 and 7.62X54R with real black powder that I made just to see if it would work. It does.;) Smokes a LOT tho.
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30-30 is a great call. But it was never a black powder cartridge. America’s first smokeless sporting cartridge and a year behind the 30-40 (also never a BP cartridge despite the naming convention) having been chambered in the 1885 Win.
 
Roverguy said:
30-30 is a great call. But it was never a black powder cartridge. America’s first smokeless sporting cartridge and a year behind the 30-40 (also never a BP cartridge despite the naming convention) having been chambered in the 1885 Win.
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I'm glad you told me that. I've been thinking it was a BP for all these years because the nomenclature 30 and 30 together just seemed to indicate black powder because of all the other something - something was for caliber + grains of black powder..

They say you learn something new every day. :rofl:

PS.. I dang sure did make some with 30 grains of black powder and shot them. Sounded pretty stout, I didn't cronny but at least we know homemade black powder will work in a pinch. 😉
 
Big7 said:
I'm glad you told me that. I've been thinking it was a BP for all these years because the nomenclature 30 and 30 together just seemed to indicate black powder because of all the other something - something was for caliber + grains of black powder..

They say you learn something new every day. :rofl:

PS.. I dang sure did make some with 30 grains of black powder and shot them. Sounded pretty stout, I didn't cronny but at least we know homemade black powder will work in a pinch. 😉
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Well, you weren’t far off in any event.

The 32 Win Special, introduced in 1901, was the 30-30 necked up to .321 (or, more properly, the 38-55 necked down to .321) in response to old Fudds of the day that wanted to reload with BP and cast bullets. Winchester dropped the twist rate from 1:12 in the 30-30 to 1:16 for the 32 and allegedly used deeper grooves in the rifling. But with a soft alloy, plenty of lube and “Ballard” rifling (not a good idea in Marlin microgroove barrels), no reason BP loads in 30-30 can’t be effective. I’d think closer to 40 grs of 3fffg would fit with some compression.
 
edwardware said:
.30-06, for it's place in America's contribution to WWII.


<rant>
No, the .45 Colt is not also known as "45 Long Colt". There is no such thing as a "45 Long Colt", or a "45 Short Colt" for that matter. That there are Shorts and Longs in .38 and .22 does not magically make 45 Colt "Long". Kids these days. . .
</rant>

Seriously, I suggest Mermelstein's Guide to Metallic Cartridge Evolution if you want an overview of the field. It's a great read.
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I disagree, although you may be historically correct; no argument there. But for a lot of us older guys, we grew up calling it the Long Colt to differentiate it from the ACP round, and am not interested in changing my views now.
 
Roverguy said:
30-30 is a great call. But it was never a black powder cartridge. America’s first smokeless sporting cartridge and a year behind the 30-40 (also never a BP cartridge despite the naming convention) having been chambered in the 1885 Win.
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I'm not really sure now but I'm going to find out.
Check out this article, skip on down to the third paragraph.
www.americanhunter.org

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Head to Head: .30-30 Winchester vs. .35 Remington

Between the .30-30 Win. and the .35 Rem., which is the more useful cartridge for hunters? Contributor Philip Massaro compares the two and picks the winner.
www.americanhunter.org www.americanhunter.org
 
Big7 said:
I'm not really sure now but I'm going to find out.
Check out this article, skip on down to the third paragraph.
www.americanhunter.org

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Head to Head: .30-30 Winchester vs. .35 Remington

Between the .30-30 Win. and the .35 Rem., which is the more useful cartridge for hunters? Contributor Philip Massaro compares the two and picks the winner.
www.americanhunter.org www.americanhunter.org
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Patently false. The 30 WCF, aka 30-30, was introduced as a smokeless cartridge and never offered by Winchester as a BP loading (see 32 Win Special). The 30-30 naming convention was a hold-over from the BP cartridge days, like the 30-40, but both were introduced as smokeless cartridges.
 
I put 20 years in the US COAST GUARD and only fired the M-16 once, the rest of the time we still used the M-1, 12 guage riot guns, and the 1911A1, and I retired in 1989. So much for progress huh?
 
edwardware said:
.30-06, for it's place in America's contribution to WWII.


<rant>
No, the .45 Colt is not also known as "45 Long Colt". There is no such thing as a "45 Long Colt", or a "45 Short Colt" for that matter. That there are Shorts and Longs in .38 and .22 does not magically make 45 Colt "Long". Kids these days. . .
</rant>

Seriously, I suggest Mermelstein's Guide to Metallic Cartridge Evolution if you want an overview of the field. It's a great read.
Click to expand...
Colt never designated their round “Long”. That is true. But other ammunition manufacturers did because of the .45 Government cartridge that was designed and manufactured by the Frankford Arsenal as a solution to the logistical issues caused by the Army using both the S&W Schofield and the Colt SAA. Since the proprietary Colt cartridge could not be chambered in the shorter cylinder of the Schofield, a shorter cartridge was developed that could be used in both. While the US Army, Ordnance Board etc., never called it the 45 Short Colt either, it came to be known as such in colloquial usage. Interestingly, JMB’s 45 ACP was designed to deliver the performance of the 45 Government rather than that of the more powerful 45 Colt.

So, while it is strictly speaking correct that there was never a 45 Short Colt, in colloquial usage, there was, albeit an incorrect designation.
 
Roverguy said:
Colt never designated their round “Long”. That is true. But other ammunition manufacturers did because of the .45 Government cartridge that was designed and manufactured by the Frankford Arsenal as a solution to the logistical issues caused by the Army using both the S&W Schofield and the Colt SAA. Since the proprietary Colt cartridge could not be chambered in the shorter cylinder of the Schofield, a shorter cartridge was developed that could be used in both. While the US Army, Ordnance Board etc., never called it the 45 Short Colt either, it came to be known as such in colloquial usage. Interestingly, JMB’s 45 ACP was designed to deliver the performance of the 45 Government rather than that of the more powerful 45 Colt.

So, while it is strictly speaking correct that there was never a 45 Short Colt, in colloquial usage, there was, albeit an incorrect designation.
Click to expand...
Also the 45 Colt's rim diameter is too small to work with the S&W model 3 star extractor of the Schofield. The 45 S&W had a larger diameter rim.
 
Roverguy said:
Colt never designated their round “Long”. That is true. But other ammunition manufacturers did because of the .45 Government cartridge that was designed and manufactured by the Frankford Arsenal as a solution to the logistical issues caused by the Army using both the S&W Schofield and the Colt SAA. Since the proprietary Colt cartridge could not be chambered in the shorter cylinder of the Schofield, a shorter cartridge was developed that could be used in both. While the US Army, Ordnance Board etc., never called it the 45 Short Colt either, it came to be known as such in colloquial usage. Interestingly, JMB’s 45 ACP was designed to deliver the performance of the 45 Government rather than that of the more powerful 45 Colt.

So, while it is strictly speaking correct that there was never a 45 Short Colt, in colloquial usage, there was, albeit an incorrect designation.
Click to expand...
This cartridge had the case length of the Scofield and the narrow rim of the 45 Colt. It was known as the 45 Government and was on the commercial market and actually labeled as 45 Short Colt. it was loaded to Scofield specs. Later on the government developed the 45 Revolver for the 1909 New Service. This cartridge had the 45 Colt case length with the Scofield wider rim. It was loaded to Scofield specs at the muzzle. The same at the muzzle specs were applied to the 45 ACP at the concept stage. But it's true there was never a 45 Long Colt accept as a "nick name".
 
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