Mother Jones take on Heller; it's all about racist oppression and it always was.

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The history of gun control in the United States is also the history of White supremacism... into which Mother Jones has apparently bought.

Mother Jones and the Klan, marching in lockstep...
 
One of JR's old blogs...

ROSS IN RANGE
Race, Values, the O.J. Verdict, and Right-To-Carry, or
A Statistician Explains a Conundrum
By John Ross

Copyright 2003 by John Ross. Electronic reproduction of this article freely permitted provided it is reproduced in its entirety with attribution given.

I had another column ginned up for this week�s offering but then I read something an hour ago which made me save it for a later date and address something else that�s been on my mind, namely blacks and Right-To-Carry laws. Some background:

Those of you who are regular readers of Ross in Range may notice a similarity in layout and scheduling (but not necessarily content) to another, much more widely read Internet column called Fred On Everything at http://www.fredoneverything.net/ColMenu.html by Fred Reed.

This is not a coincidence. I have been a regular reader of Mr. Reed�s writings for a number of years, from back when he started working for my friend Bob Brown at Soldier of Fortune. Mr. Reed is twelve years older than I, a Marine and decorated Vietnam combat vet, and worked as a police beat columnist for the Washington Times for several years. As such, he has experience in areas I do not, though we�ve both spent a lot of time in the Third World�s more interesting backwaters, often with a girl or a gun in our hands. (Couldn�t resist that one. I think Mickey Spillane takes control of my keyboard sometimes.) Fred is now an expatriate living in Mexico and spends his time writing, scuba diving, hanging out in bars, flirting with women, and apparently doing exactly what he wants.

I like Fred�s weekly columns, and while some (like #199) try to be too cute for my taste, others are absolute knockouts. The latter variety often deal with issues of race and education�the so-called "melting pot" of whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians in America, and how much (if any) each of these groups is indeed melting.

Fred�s background, especially his years in D.C., gives him the right to speak with firsthand authority on matters I usually avoid: race relations in general and what most people (privately) think of as The Black Problem in particular.

My avoidance is not from cowardice but out of an innate belief that a person who (starting at age three) enjoyed attendance at the best private schools he could get into has not the credentials to be lecturing on matters of sociology and the underclass.

In that light, when Fred writes about blacks and education, given his experience in D.C., I read very carefully. He�s hit some home runs on this subject before, but I thought his 200th column "Whiteness Studies" was an especially long ball, as was #180 "What�s a White Guy to Do?" (Side note: If you are a regular reader of Fred�s column, be aware that his view of the black/white state of affairs in America is more bleak than my own. I am willing to concede that might be due to Fred having more accurate information, however.)

Central to Fred�s commentary is that in D.C., blacks run the whole political and educational system, they have plenty of school funding, and the teachers are paid far more than the national average. The results are terrible. What to do? Neither he nor I have any idea.

At the risk of being accused of blaming blacks for all their own problems, it strikes me that as long as so many blacks have such different value systems from their white counterparts, we will never see the generally easy coexistence that whites enjoy with Asians and, to a somewhat lesser degree, Hispanics.

Never was this brought home so dramatically for me as at the O.J. Simpson trial. I am not talking about the fact that a largely black jury reached a verdict of Not Guilty in the murder of two whites. This has happened many times in our history on the other side of the racial aisle. I am referring to what one columnist* called "the absolutely breathtaking reaction" of America�s entire black population when the verdict was announced. Across the country, Black America was positively jubilant.

When white Americans see film footage of some pus-gut like Bull Connor and his thugs using fire hoses and billy clubs on peaceful black freedom marchers, the near-universal reaction is revulsion. The same is true of lynchings.

It is true that over the years there have been cases where an all-white jury has ignored the evidence and freed a white man for a vicious crime because his victim was black, but White America as a whole has never, in my memory, cheered such events. I would like you to engage in a little exercise here with me. I would like you to envision the O.J. Simpson case, with the races reversed.

Imagine a white Hall of Fame footballer turned actor/pitchman, like Howie Long. Imagine Howie had a moderately hot-looking black ex-wife with a high school education and breast implants. (To my knowledge Mr. Long is not so encumbered, but bear with me.)

Imagine that there was overwhelming DNA and other evidence that Howie had butchered this black ex-wife and a black male acquaintance of hers. Imagine the entire Howie Long Trial being televised for months, and being called the "Trial of the Century." Imagine Greta Van Susteren's TV career being "made" by her televised legal commentary on The Howie Long Trial. Imagine that during The Howie Long Trial there is the revelation that one of the black cops involved with Howie�s arrest disliked whites and had used the terms "white devil" and "honky" in the past. Imagine the defense team running with this and arguing that all the city's black officers tampered with evidence and engaged in a huge conspiracy to frame Howie for the two murders. Finally, imagine a largely white jury telling us they had weighed the evidence and decided Howie was Not Guilty.

Can you, in your most reckless imaginings, see White America having a mass celebration over this Not Guilty verdict, and repeating the mantra The black bitch (and her friend, presumably) deserved it? I can�t. Not at all. Similarly, can you imagine whites all across America being particularly upset at the possibility that Howie might get sent to Death Row for murdering two black people? The concept is ludicrous.

And yet whites in America have come to expect this very sort of thing of blacks. We expect blacks to set fire to their own neighborhoods and loot the black-owned businesses therein when a jury verdict in a racially-charged case displeases them. And they do.

Which brings me to the Right-To-Carry issue. Missouri is unfortunately one of the five remaining states which absolutely prohibit honest adults from carrying a concealed firearm for protection. There is no permit available here under any circumstances. The legislature passed Right-To-Carry last month, but it is not yet law, and there is fear that our Governor may veto the measure, although I believe there are enough votes for a veto override. (7/3/03 update: Gov. Holden just vetoed RTC in a big ceremony this afternoon in St. Louis County. 9/11/03 Update: The Missouri House and Senate just overrode Governor Holden's veto of RTC. Missourians just got some of their rights back, after 129 years.) I wrote an article for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch on this issue, but they want you to pay $2.95 to read it online. I'll put my article up on my site when I get the text loaded.

When discussing this matter, people inevitably bring up Missouri�s 1999 ballot referendum on Right-To-Carry, which was narrowly defeated (with a dismal 30% voter turnout, I might add.) The fact is that the measure passed in almost every county in the state. The defeat came from the fact that two very large urban precincts in St. Louis and Kansas City were over 90% opposed. At the time, I thought this was vote fraud (and to be honest, I still think that was a factor). Ninety percent? You can�t get ninety percent agreement on anything.

A black businessman (who was one of the handful of St. Louis city residents who voted for the referendum) and I were discussing the recent passage of RTC. I brought up the referendum results, and said I could not understand why blacks had been so uniformly against the measure. The proposal was a "shall issue" one, where if you satisfied the requirements (training, fingerprints, no criminal record, no mental illness, etc.) you couldn�t be denied the permit just because the sheriff didn�t like the idea of people besides the police having guns. The businessman stared at me.

"I thought you were good at math," he said. I allowed as to how I felt that I was. "Then you must never have taken Statistics and Probability." I told him I had done this also, and that it had been one of the most rewarding math classes I had ever taken (and incidentally was taught by Amherst�s professor Denton, who is black.) "Then you must be cowed enough by political correctness to never think of applying statistics and probability to anything involving race." Finally I admitted that this last accusation might be true.

"Then I am going to ask you two true-or-false questions. One: Do blacks in the city of St. Louis have large extended families?" I answered in the affirmative. "Two: Is it true that in St. Louis, over 40% of the black males between the ages of 17 and 25 have criminal records?" I told him that was also true, unfortunately.

"So here is the important question: What are the chances of a black person of voting age in St. Louis having at least one relative with a criminal record? Assume we define �relative� broadly, to include the young men who father the children of our female relatives, whether married to them or not." He sat there waiting for my answer.

"Are we talking fathers, stepfathers, uncles, brothers, stepbrothers, male cousins, sons, stepsons, nephews, mothers� boyfriends, aunts' boyfriends, sisters� boyfriends, daughters� boyfriends, stepdaughters� boyfriends, female cousins� boyfriends, nieces� boyfriends, as well as anyone actually married to a female relative?" I asked. He nodded. "Then I�d say there's nearly 100% probability that at least one relative would have a criminal record." He smiled at me like a teacher who has just gotten the right answer from one of his slower students.

"So," I said, "I'm to believe that the black sentiment in St. Louis was �I wish young Tyrone would stop robbing people, but I don�t want one of the people he robs to shoot him dead.� Is that it?" I asked.

"You�ve got it exactly," he told me.

"But why? I mean, honestly, if some guy was married to my cousin and mugged people for a living, I�d figure he was making his own choices and could damn well take the chance of being blasted. I wouldn�t vote away my rights to help his sorry ass."

"What if it wasn�t just your one cousin�s husband, but 40% of all your male relatives between the ages of 18 and 25? What if that was, oh, I don�t know, a dozen people?" Suddenly I didn�t know what to say.

"You don�t feel that way," I said finally.

"I�m an Uncle Tom. I�ve recently come to realize that I now have very few black friends."

This statement filled me with an ineffable sadness. I know that we will get Right-To-Carry here in Missouri, even if the Governor vetoes it. That�s not the issue. And every black Missourian with a criminal record isn�t going to get shot by an armed citizen�we all know that, too. In over 98%** of the cases where a licenseholder encounters a criminal, he stops the crime without firing a shot. It�s that way in Atlanta and every other big city with a large black population in a Right-To-Carry state, so there�s no reason to think it would be any different in Kansas City or St. Louis.

But the O.J. trial and what the black businessman said has stuck with me. What hope can we have, I wonder, if the values that blacks hold dear are mutually exclusive of those held by whites?

John Ross 6/23/03
 
I stopped reading when I hit Carl Bogus' name. He's nothing more than a shill for the Joyce Foundation. (But then again, among the anti-gun crowd, who isn't?)
 
Mother Jones is out of San Fransisco and one of its early Editors was our buddy Mikey bowling for donuts Moore. Its one of the most extreem left wing rags short of the communist party publications in the US.
 
Even if she is right about why the Second was written, it should now be clear to her that only when a Black man and a White man can both equaly be able to defend themselves will there be true equality. Shame on her for trying to keep guns from decent Black folk
 
Even if she is right about why the Second was written,

1. She's wrong.

2. Laws against carrying guns in the South were passed to prevent Blacks from carrying -- in fact, the Florida Supreme Court overturned the conviction of a White man on just those grounds.
 
Justice Anthony Kennedy and his conservative brethren seemed to fully embrace the gun lobby's favorite romantic myth that the founders, inspired by the image of the musket in the hands of a minuteman, wrote the Second Amendment to give Americans the right to take up arms to fight government tyranny. But what the founders really had in mind, according to some constitutional-law scholars, was the musket in the hands of a slave owner. That is, these scholars believe the founders enshrined the right to bear arms in the Constitution in part to enforce tyranny, not fight it.

This writing is laughable.
 
Laws against carrying guns in the South were passed to prevent Blacks from carrying -- in fact, the Florida Supreme Court overturned the conviction of a White man on just those grounds.

That's why we (and she) need to fight the DC ban, to allow the Blacks their right to be free and safe by ownership of weapons of self defense. I guess you didn't understand what I wrote.
 
The woman's guilty of what MANY people are....

Re-interpreting the intent of the Founding Fathers based upon the social and political rhetoric of today. She is interpreting is as she WISHES it to be.


My grandfather used to always tell me-- and I quote him a lot--

"Truth doesn't care whether you believe it or not."

Our Founding Fathers left a plethera of supporting documentation for anyone who wishes to know their intent.

We don't need to argue about commas, semicolons, or whatever.

She's the type of person that I get a strong urge to smack in the back of the head with a half-filled Mountain Dew bottle. It probably wouldn't knock any sense into her, but it would sure as hell make me feel better.


I guess the reality that the second is about FREEDOM and the NFA and GCA are about restriction is beyond her.

The NFA was a response to the Mafia, and the GCA was a response to the Civil Rights Movement. The Second was about kicking butt- whether it be tyranny or King George.

Pretty simple to me.


-- John
 
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Mother Jones is out of San Fransisco and one of its early Editors was our buddy Mikey bowling for donuts Moore.

Yes, but they actually had standards and fired him (at least, per the Wikipedia):

After four months at Mother Jones, Moore was fired for refusing to print an article by Paul Berman that was critical of the Sandinista's human rights record in Nicaragua. Moore stated that he would not run the article because Ronald Reagan “could easily hold it up, saying, 'See, even Mother Jones agrees with me.” Berman described Moore as a "very ideological guy and not a very well-educated guy" when asked about the incident. Moore sued for wrongful dismissal, and settled out of court for $58,000, providing him with seed money for his first film, Roger & Me.

Mother Jones is a magazine whose editorial line is easy to disagree with, but whose arguments I would not dismiss out of hand. The people who write there (along with The Nation) tend to be the intellectual elite of the leftist media. Their arguments should be studied carefully and answered comprehensively.

For instance: the argument he puts forth concerning the 2nd amendment and slave-owners wanting to keep their weapons in case of slave revolts...well, I honestly don't know what the facts were, having never studied it in detail, but that claim does not seem absurd on its face. Slave owners were citizens, slaves were not. Given the fears these slave owners had about slave revolt, it does seem reasonable to assume that they'd be ONE group that WOULD have such concerns.

Does this mean that the Second Amendment is illegitimate? No, of course not. More law-abiding citizens have found protection thanks to the right to keep and bear arms that it affords us than scoundrels. And, in any event, I doubt that slave owners were the only ones concerned about the right to keep & bear arms in 1789.

And, as many people pointed out, many gun control ordinances enacted after the Civil War in the south were intended to disarm African-Americans.

I don't think this fellow's arguments are correct....but I think we are going to hear more of this line of argumentation from the left in the future, and it would behoove us to research this issue further and make sure that we have our arguments locked down, instead of just dismissing this with a Dogbert-esque wave of the paw....
 
At the risk of being offense, or worse yet saying too much truth:

I find it amusing the same left leaning 60's drug using hippies who introduced hard drugs to the black inner cities and made damn sure the drug/gang apocalypse was escalated to the point of sabotaging the civil rights movement they supported now wish to remove more civil rights from African Americans to save them.

Yet again the voice of the left is finding new ways to dress up the same old chains.

The real tragedy is the NAACP is their bossman for the new slavery.

And if they have their way, all races will be their slaves and united in a media run, credit driven bondage.

that's my rant and my .02
 
One other thing: I don't know who Bogus is, and can't say much about his qualifications. But I can tell you that an academic Law Review or Law Journal, typically, is not a peer-review journal, but rather a student-run journal. (In fact, I used to be an editor for one of them). Certainly, the students in most cases do their best and fact-check as well as they can, but they're not hard-core academics.

Basically, if a professor has something serious to say about statistics or history, he would probably publish it in a peer-review journal in one of those fields.
 
First thing I did was turn around quickly five times clockwise to counteract the "spin" on that article.

Then I looked at the calendar to see how long it was to April Fool's Day.
 
I may get slammed but here goes; I think Sharpton/Jackson are the biggest culprits of the people they are supposed to be helping. Here I am Mr. White Bread telling the world the Blacks should have guns but all I hear is roaring silence on the issue from Sharpton/Jackson, maybe they afraid their own people gonna shoot them?
 
There is an element of truth in the article. One of the duties of the militia is to put down civil disorder, and if that took the form of a slave revolt, then they did it.

However, you would be wrong to say that was their main duty. I am not aware of any slave revolts in Vermont or most other northern states, yet they had militias, too. (There were a couple of revolts in New York before 1776.)

Saying that this was the "reason" for the Second Amendment is a little like saying that the "reason" for the Democratic Party after 1865 was to preserve the oppression of black people.

If you want to learn more, start with these names: Denmark Vesey and Nat Turner.
 
I find it amusing the same left leaning 60's drug using hippies who introduced hard drugs to the black inner cities and made damn sure the drug/gang apocalypse was escalated to the point of sabotaging the civil rights movement they supported now wish to remove more civil rights from African Americans to save them.

Best post of the thread.
 
the thing is, the writer makes the assumption that the 2a was created to let "white man militias" keep the poh black slave in his place.
Well do some research, no slave uprisings happened until the abolitionists started up in the 1800s.

as far as the supposedly disproportionate number of deaths between the races. Its simply a numbers gang. The best way to explain it is this way.

take a room, put 100 people in it. 12 get pink tshirts, the rest of fuschia tshirts. A guy in grey shirt comes in and empties a 30 round magazine into the crowd. Physics and math tells us that more people wearing a fuschia tshirt will get shot then people wearing pink shirts.
 
From my readings of the history of the 2nd Amendment (from actual historical sources, not articles from American Rifleman), the following statements in Mother Jones sees very likely to be correct:

The militia was the first and last protection from the omnipresent threat of slave insurrection or vengeance. The War for Independence had placed the South in a precarious position: sending the militia to the war against the British would leave Southern communities vulnerable to slave insurrection. The Southern states, therefore, often refused to commit their militia to the Revolution, reserving them instead for slave control.

This a quote from Bogus's article for the UC Davis Law Review. For those who think for themselves, here's the article:

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Bogus2.htm

You may disagree, with many of the other portions of the article, but I suspect that the review of the battle between the Federalists and anti-Federalists over the 2nd Amendment is largely correct.

I think that there is plenty of evidence in the historical record to indicate that the Southern states did in fact demand the 2nd Amendment to prevent northern abolitionists from dia-arming the southern militias that were the fist bulwark against a slave uprising.

Here's Patrick Henry, concerned that Congress would not call fort the militia to suppress a slave rebellion:

If the country be invaded, a state may go to war, but cannot suppress insurrections. If there should happen an insurrection of slaves, the country cannot be said to be invaded. They cannot, therefore, suppress it without the interposition of Congress . . . . Congress, and Congress only, can call forth the militia.

There was a lot of concern in the South over federal control of the state militias.

There was lot of concern in the South that the North would seek ways to force the South to abandon slavery. I think that subsequent history verifies the Souther fears. :)

That is not to say that all of the authors (or ratifiers) shared this concern. Other authors had other concerns - there were undoubtedly people who backed the 2nd to avoid home grown tyranny, as there were people were not at all concerned about domestic tyranny, but were concerned about foreign tyranny.

History is complex - denying history is just silly.

Well do some research, no slave uprisings happened until the abolitionists started up in the 1800s.

  1. Gloucester County, Virginia, Sept. 1663
  2. New York, 1712
  3. Stono, South Carolina 1739
  4. New York, 1741

To my mind, the fact that the 2nd Amendment may have been supported by slave owners concerned about their right to protect the institution of slavery does not imply that the 2nd Amendment was invalid.

With a name like that, you'd expect him to publish crap.
The source for this drivel is a guy named Bogus? Sometimes a name isn't just a name...

Making fun of a man's last name - is that the source of our intellectual pride?

Mikey bowling for donuts Moore.

Is calling someone "fatso" the best we can do? Does it make you proud to be a member of THR?

Pretty high road.

Mike
 
Believe it or not, the NAACP is a racist organization.
No lie.
Check out the name: National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.
It does not stand for National Association for the Equality of Colored People.
It is, by name, an association that intends to ADVANCE the standing of "colored people". Hence, its goals can be furthered by attacking "non colored people" and labeling them as racist.
Besides, the Second Amendment mentions nothing about race, nor does the federal definition of the unorganized militia. The right to keep and bear arms applies to all full citizens, regardless of race or ethnicity or skin color or whatever you want to call it.
The SCOTUS ruling Dred Scott v. Sandford said:
"It would give to persons of the negro race, …the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, …the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went."
That's what you can do if you're a full citizen. You can choose to carry arms.

This coming, by the way, from a person of color. Because yeah, according to the article--race matters. We've come a long way since the days of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. who wanted grandchildren of slave owners and slaves to be united, haven't we?
 
It seems to me that a large segment of society is living in self-imposed slavery; they are enslaved to the government as pseudo-parent, providing them with entitlements and absolving them from any personal responsibility for their own welfare and safety. Why would they want to vote for a right that requires them to become responsible for their own safety, as long as they can continue receiving the free police protection and guarantee of safety (yes, I know that is not true, but the voters believe it is and vote accordingly). They think it is free, because so few of them actually pay any taxes into the system, but instead draw the government welfare replacement now called the Earned Income Credit, the Child Tax Credit and the Additional Child Tax Credit. They work just enough to qualify for the "refunds" but still not enough to owe any taxes, and rake in the booty.

This is not a racial issue, but it is true that in certain areas a strong majority of these people are from minority groups. Whether slavery is imposed by force or by choice is the issue. Slavery at this time is mostly by choice in the US, but to listen to most of the people that have chosen it for themselves, they are victims of the people that provide them with everything they have. They are just angry that they are not provided with more booty at the expense of real taxpayers, the 20 percent that pay 80 percent of the costs of keeping this nation functioning. These people want the police to protect them, so they don't have to worry about being assaulted by their own offspring. They ignore the fact that they are committing assault every time they put a ballot in the polling place. They prefer assault by the ballot instead of by the bullet. They ignore the fact that they are responsible for the violence in their communities, because they have not provided a stable home environment and good moral upbringing for those children, with both parents working together to instill a sense of decency and self discipline.
 
Making fun of a man's last name - is that the source of our intellectual pride?

"source of our intellectual pride?" No, sometimes things are done just for fun. I believed the "Mother Jones" article good for a laugh and not much else. YMMV.
 
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