Mother Jones take on Heller; it's all about racist oppression and it always was.

[Telperion]

So will Mother Jones be doing an article on the racist and sexist history of the right to vote? We should eliminate this antiquated right that was used for over a century to oppress women and minorities.

 

[Cavalier Knight]

When I saw the thread title, I thought, "Aha! Somebody else gets it now."

If you look at the history of gun control as it has to do with race, you will see racism mainly against blacks in American gun control laws. It's obvious to me, a white male.

I am an American of African descent. I usually just observe these tirades but the current denial level is ridiculous. During the pre error of the Declaration of Independence slavery was legal. The Declaration was just that a Declaration it was not Emancipation which is two different things.

Obviously if some white male was a slave owner he would have no desire for an African to have anything much less a gun. I was born in the North some of the older forum members from the South know what I'm talking about & I'm not implying that you are personally any kind of racist.

It just amazes me the level of denial which still exists in America & I'm not playing any cards. Hence Nazi's were German but all German's were not Nazi's I can respect that truth. The truth is the truth some of the white officers in the NYPD who don't live in the inner city don't want me walking around with any guns period. Some people can be racist & actually convince themselves that "oh I was referring to those blacks, him not you" you're ok because I like you.

That's why I have six concealed permits & a Rifle & Shotgun permit. I reside in New York NY & had an incident where false information was given against me by someone who knew I possessed a legal shotgun.

I was a resident in an apartment building in Harlem NYC. The NYPD all but kicked in my door with no less then ten officers went right to where they were told I kept my shotgun at that time a locked closet & had me open it up. They handcuffed me & stated they would proceed to arrest my whole family including my Mother.

One officer called in the serial number & I wish I had a picture of his face when they told him it was registered to me. Now all these predominantly "white males" became super polite. I instantly became Mr. Reynolds we're so sorry this so sorry that. I could have pursued it legally I was in my twenties then not as adept as I am now but I let it go. We having a saying It is what it is.

My Mother was the one who originally told me if you want to bring a firearm into this home get a permit...so I did.

 

[JWarren]

I usually just observe these tirades but the current denial level is ridiculous.

I agree completely. However, denial of current societal issues is not confined to one particular demographic.

During the pre error of the Declaration of Independence slavery was legal. The Declaration was just that a Declaration it was not Emancipation which is two different things.

True. History is what it is.

I was born in the North some of the older forum members from the South know what I'm talking about & I'm not implying that you are personally any kind of racist.

I’m curious. While you are not implying that any individual is a racist, are you implying that there is no or little racism/prejudice in the North?

It just amazes me the level of denial which still exists in America & I'm not playing any cards.

Again, I agree. But let’s explore this at the end.

Some people can be racist & actually convince themselves that "oh I was referring to those blacks, him not you" you're ok because I like you.

And again, are you implying that such is not said in other demographic groups?

That's why I have six concealed permits & a Rifle & Shotgun permit. I reside in New York NY & had an incident where false information was given against me by someone who knew I possessed a legal shotgun.

I was a resident in an apartment building in Harlem NYC. The NYPD all but kicked in my door with no less then ten officers went right to where they were told I kept my shotgun at that time a locked closet & had me open it up. They handcuffed me & stated they would proceed to arrest my whole family including my Mother.

Are you implying that the action of the officers was motivated by race or by the false information given against you? While I may be willing to concede your point, you have not given adequate evidence to assert a racial motivation.

I know of a teenage Caucasian kid who was pulled over for speeding where the Highway Patrol pulled him through his window and threw him into the highway after pulling him over. Yeah, I was that kid years ago. It was wrong, but it had nothing to do with race.

One officer called in the serial number & I wish I had a picture of his face when they told him it was registered to me. Now all these predominantly "white males" became super polite. I instantly became Mr. Reynolds we're so sorry this so sorry that. I could have pursued it legally I was in my twenties then not as adept as I am now but I let it go. We having a saying It is what it is.

Yes. They made a mistake, and knew it. I would argue that if they were truly racists and had no respect for law, they would have had no problems planting something. It kinda reminds me of that Dave Chappell episode about sprinkling someone with “Crack Dust.”

My Mother was the one who originally told me if you want to bring a firearm into this home get a permit...so I did.

A wise woman and I am glad you listened to her.

It just amazes me the level of denial which still exists in America & I'm not playing any cards.

OK… let’s cut through it. I wholeheartedly agree that there is a tremendous amount of denial that still exists in America.

The problem is that the “denial” extends FAR beyond some “white” people. As I have seen it, EVERYONE has the propensity of being racist/prejudice/etc.

I’ve met black people who are blatantly racists. I’ve met Asians who were blatantly racists. I’ve met Jewish people who were prejudice against others. I’ve met Northerners who made no attempt to mask their prejudice against Southerners. And how many derisive “Redneck comments do we see even on THR? How accepted is the use of many terms to address White persons—and yet, other derisive terms are now only addressed by their first letter.

And yes… I’ve met White persons who were racists.

Yet, somehow it is assumed that only a White person can be a racist. Yet it is accepted that the South is the whipping boy for the country’s societal ills.

I reject both of those notions.

We SHOULD have come far enough that we can end the tired, moldy rhetoric. We will NEVER address the problems we have in our society until we are able to finally rip the curtains down and let the light shine equally upon ALL participants regardless of race or demographics.

We will only advance as a society when we allow free expression of the issues. For instance… Don Imus. Whatever you or I may think of the guy—or whatever we think of what he said— the REAL effect of that situation and others is that NO ONE will speak openly of issues or concerns for fear of becoming the next Don Imus. It effectively creates a Wall of Silence. But has that Wall actually done anything other than hinder discussion?


We truly ARE in an age of denial. But lets make sure we identify ALL of those in denial and not seek out more whipping boys.


This entire line of discussion is OT, and will likely be curtailed. I’ll be happy to continue it in the form of Private Messages.


All the best!


-- John

 

[goon]

Who is Mother Jones?

Nevermind. The name meant nothing to me two minutes ago and I was fine with that.


As far as race, my opinion is that it's only an issue because people make it an issue.
The world is full of ignorant morons.
They'll target you because you're Asian, or because you're blind, or because you're a woman.
Or they'll target you because you're the white protestant male who is the source of all their problems.
Either way, morons are morons.
In an ideal world they'd all be smart enough to google "moron", see their pictures associated with that term, and rehabilitate themselves.
But alas, this is not an ideal world.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Indeed, while two of the original five plaintiffs in the Heller case are black women, not a whole lot of African Americans in the District appear to be out there clamoring to own more handguns for self-defense

Since when is 40% an insignificant number???

 

[gunsmith]

You would think that someone trying to advance equality and freedom for all, would argue that it is an individual right.

Mother Jones doesn't believe in "equality and freedom for all"
They believe (like the Nazi's, also a left wing party) that police/army only needs guns.

 

[erictank]

With all his concern with grizzly bears, Kennedy has clearly forgotten about Carl Rowan Sr.

Back in 1988, the African American syndicated columnist shot an unarmed, 18-year-old white kid from Chevy Chase who'd gone for an unauthorized dip in Rowan's swimming pool. Rowan, who shot the kid in the wrist as he tried to flee, claimed he'd feared for his life and was only defending himself. Nonetheless, the columnist was prosecuted for illegally possessing a handgun. The trial ended with a hung jury and Rowan escaped punishment (though the teenagers were sentenced to community service), but the incident fueled a tremendous amount of racial tension in the city that might have been avoided if Rowan had just, say, called the cops.

Interesting that they just gloss over the facts that 1) Rowan had no business shooting at someone who'd been swimming in his pool when said evilnastybadteenager is RUNNING AWAY, and 2) that Mr. Rowan was an unrepentant and demonstratedly-hypocritical victim-disarmament advocate (who, after the shooting, when confronted about his hypocrisy, stated something on the close order of "Well, I'm still going to have a gun to protect MYself!". He did, later, admit that his position was hypocritical, but continued to support victim-disarmament laws). These items are surely relevant, considering they chose to bring Rowan up in the first place.

But then, admitting the objective truth on that (or as others have pointed out, on the matter of violation of the rights of minorities re: the Second Amendment) might be a bit much to ask from the staff of 'Mother Jones', from what I've seen.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

erictank--I noticed they threw the Rowan story in (not really relevant, even withing the piece as written). Your memory of the affair is accurate--after when he was called on it (about being an anti-owning a pistol) he blathered on some nonsense about how he'd get rid of HIS gun once he succeeded in getting them banned.
I was in high school at the time and it helped fuel my early cynical world view about how people most interested in controling others' behavior are often the 'secret' fetishists of the behavior everyone should be worried about.

 

[TCB in TN]

My dad always told me that "People are just people, you have good and bad from every country, race, and religion." I have found that to be true. I grew up in a pretty much all white town, blacks were not wanted here, but it was not really an overt thing. I played sports and traveled around the state and ended up making a lot of black friends, I worked out and got into a little boxing/martial arts, and made some Asian, and Latino friends. In the process I found that my dad's words were very true. So while I grew up around some who were prejudice, I was both taught and learned to give people a chance. Now then I spent some time with some of my black friends from the Chattanooga area, went and played ball in a few places where I was the only white guy there, and I can honestly say that I was treated by some there in a very "impolite" fashion, all for being white, and NOT staying where I should. Had the same type of experience with both Asian's and Latino's as well.

So I can speak from personal experience when saying here in the South there are still racial problems, BUT that said I have heard more damning racial comments while working in the North, and from those who live in the North than I ever have down here. Lots of folks moving down here from Michigan, and most have something bad to say about Detroit, and let me tell you those comments do involve race!

Racism, sexism, and all other prejudices are sadly part of human nature, it unfortunately seems to come much more easily than tollerance, and caring, and while overt signs, symbols, and the acts themselves may slowly be diminishing, it appears that they may never go away! But anyone who feels that it is a one way street is sadly mistaken! In truth that is just another very good reason for ALL PEOPLE to arm themselves so that they can protect themselves from those who do not take THE HIGH ROAD, so to speak!

 

[jakeswensonmt]

For instance… Don Imus. Whatever you or I may think of the guy—or whatever we think of what he said— the REAL effect of that situation and others is that NO ONE will speak openly of issues or concerns for fear of becoming the next Don Imus.

Which is why these Mother Whatever clowns are embedding their anti-gun agenda in racist nonsense. Of course, the racist nonsense makes no sense and withers readily under scrutiny, but due to the Imus effect mentioned above many white people will not speak out to oppose the writer for fear of being labeled a racist.

It effectively creates a Wall of Silence.

<RANT>But that wall only works one way. Only whites are silenced. I for one am sooooo sick of the nonstop accusations of racism from black "activists", especially when just about every white person in America walks on eggshells when it comes to race and fears making the slightest error that could even remotely be construed as racist. Meanwhile even prominent blacks (Sharpton, Wright, Jackson, Berry) openly exhibit their racism like it was a Nobel Prize, and rank-and-file blacks feel perfectly justified and righteous in their race-based hatred and denigration of "whitey" and "crackers."</RANT>

 

[geekWithA.45]

What a fascinating inversion of reality.

Even though they are wrong, let us consider that in the abstract, they are explicitly saying the same thing that we are:

When one group is institutionally disarmed, and another group is institutionally armed, Bad Things Happen.

And they're proposal is....to institutionally disarm one group of people.

Smart. Brilliant!

 

[Stevie-Ray]

<RANT>But that wall only works one way. Only whites are silenced. I for one am sooooo sick of the nonstop accusations of racism from black "activists", especially when just about every white person in America walks on eggshells when it comes to race and fears making the slightest error that could even remotely be construed as racist. Meanwhile even prominent blacks (Sharpton, Wright, Jackson, Berry) openly exhibit their racism like it was a Nobel Prize, and rank-and-file blacks feel perfectly justified and righteous in their race-based hatred and denigration of "whitey" and "crackers."</RANT>

That's because the plight of the black man to them will never be ended with racial equality, but only by preferential treatment for blacks. They are going, IMO, farther than anyone in promoting racial tensions. Good rant, BTW.

 

[Nikon777]

As an Black male, its saddening some of my people are so stupid.

Many blacks don't seem to understand that... as my sig line says, the roots of gun control stem from racism.

Idiots...

 

[TEDDY]

?????????

I am a white boy from the north,Mass.Lived in Boston, and the suburbs.married a georgia/tenn. girl.now I live in SC in black naborhood.I get along with my nabors.many of the males have guns mostly for hunting.It is a fact that some slave owners allowed their slaves to have guns,for hunting.slavery was not stopped till end of civil war.however the inportation of slaves was banned in 1803? and slaves children were free.and free slaves owned slaves.after the war most slaves returned to the plantations and worked for the owner.unfortunately some whites used violents against the freed slaves.I doubt that it was the plantation owners, but white fanatics.
I am not aware of prejudice against blacks in the north.course there were not many blacks till the 60s when Kennedy and co. inported them from the south.
incidently I called blacks colored folks till I asked them what they prefered.
------

 

[Nikon777]

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton both are also an embarrassment. *** is wrong with these people?

 

[Deanimator]

I am a white boy from the north,Mass.Lived in Boston, and the suburbs.married a georgia/tenn. girl.now I live in SC in black naborhood.I get along with my nabors.many of the males have guns mostly for hunting.It is a fact that some slave owners allowed their slaves to have guns,for hunting.slavery was not stopped till end of civil war.however the inportation of slaves was banned in 1803? and slaves children were free.and free slaves owned slaves.after the war most slaves returned to the plantations and worked for the owner.unfortunately some whites used violents against the freed slaves.I doubt that it was the plantation owners, but white fanatics.
I am not aware of prejudice against blacks in the north.course there were not many blacks till the 60s when Kennedy and co. inported them from the south.
incidently I called blacks colored folks till I asked them what they prefered.

You've got enough erroneous material here to make a handout by VPC or Brady. A few:

1. Slave's children were NOT free. Where you get this from is utterly beyond me. If they WERE, why escape, if you were ALREADY free???

2. Large numbers of Blacks moved to large industrial centers around the time of WWI to work in defense industries. That continued during WWII. Besides, why would a Black person WANT to stay in the Jim Crow South? It's like a Jew wanting to stay in Germany under the Nuremberg Laws.

3. While there was plenty of "prejudice" in the South, there was more than enough to go around in the North, in Chicago in particular. Chicago was and IS one of the most segregated cities in the United States. You may not have heard of the 1919 race riots in Chicago. Oddly, Chicago was one of the few cities where race riot casualties held rough parity between the races. One reason was that the returning Black doughboys raided the National Guard armories and adequately armed themselves rather than just sit around waiting to be slaughtered. I guess lynching isn't as much fun when you have to wade through a hail of '03 Springfield and BAR fire to do it.

Trust me, what you THINK you know, you DON'T.

 

[Cosmoline]

They conveniently overlook the origins of modern gun laws as part of Jim Crow. The lies coming from the mouths of these self-appointed leaders ought to choke them.

 

[Deanimator]

That's because the plight of the black man to them will never be ended with racial equality, but only by preferential treatment for blacks. They are going, IMO, farther than anyone in promoting racial tensions. Good rant, BTW.

They don't give a flying Kucinich about the plight of the Black man (which some of them help to perpetuate). If that were the case, NONE of them would support monsters like Dick Daley, who was Cook County State's Attorney when the Chicago PD was operating its own torture chamber which catered exclusively to Black suspects.

The only "plight" they care about is the plight of their bank accounts. The pity is that victims of the public schools don't have the mental wherewithal to see the truth.

 

[Titan6]

In an interview, Bogus says that polls consistently show that African Americans support gun control in much higher numbers than white people do, and probably for good reason: They're usually the ones looking at the wrong end of the barrel. As the NAACP points out in its brief on Heller, in D.C. in 2004, there were 137 gun-homicide victims. All but two of them were black. If the Supreme Court invalidates the city’s handgun ban, any ensuing uptick in gun violence is likely to have a disproportionate impact on African Americans, particularly young men.

I guess he missed the point that they were overwhelmingly killed by... yes... young black men.

I totally missed the point that he left out the Rowan is black. I just assumed everyone knew. So his total invention that yet another black on black shooting created "racial tensions" is a bad farce.

The more I read it the more it becomes clear that it is a really, really bad hack job to paint gun rights advocates as racist. I just didn't realize how bad it was without re-reading it. Someone needs to explain facts to this liar.

 

[Deanimator]

In an interview, Bogus says that polls consistently show that African Americans support gun control in much higher numbers than white people do, and probably for good reason: They're usually the ones looking at the wrong end of the barrel. As the NAACP points out in its brief on Heller, in D.C. in 2004, there were 137 gun-homicide victims. All but two of them were black. If the Supreme Court invalidates the city’s handgun ban, any ensuing uptick in gun violence is likely to have a disproportionate impact on African Americans, particularly young men.

I'll bet Bogus doesn't talk to many actual Black people.

If he did, he'd find that the same ones who claim to support repressive gun controls, casually violate those laws on an every day basis. And I'm not talking about drug dealers or holdup men. I'm talking about every day working people who know that they're as likely to be "protected" by Captain Kirk and the crew of the USS Enterprise as they are by the Chicago Police Department.

It's called "cognitive dissonance".

 

[Flyboy]

Clearly, he's confused the Second Amendment with the Army-Navy Laws.

Matter, of fact, even the Dred Scott decision supported the idea of blacks owning guns...that's why they ruled against making blacks free men.

 

[Piedmont Plinker]

I've had black friends and white friends. More of my friends have been white, but that's just because there were less black .
I've also met black jerks and white jerks.

 

[scout26]

Justice Anthony Kennedy and his conservative brethren seemed to fully embrace the gun lobby's favorite romantic myth that the founders, inspired by the image of the musket in the hands of a minuteman, wrote the Second Amendment to give Americans the right to take up arms to fight government tyranny. But what the founders really had in mind, according to some constitutional-law scholars, was the musket in the hands of a slave owner. That is, these scholars believe the founders enshrined the right to bear arms in the Constitution in part to enforce tyranny, not fight it.

That's why you'll find so many contemporary writings from the founders about "How to keep a brother down" by refusing to allow them to be armed, and absolutely nothing about the need for freemen to be able to defend themselves from tyrants/criminals.

 

[scout26]

Double tap

 

[FreshTapCoke]

Wait, is this the same Militia that the anti-gun people are saying became the National Guard?? Will these people not rest until they have insulted everyone?