Mounting N2 Weaver on Remington 514

[Traffer]

Hi Folks,
I am new here. This is my first post. I have an old Remington 514 single shot rifle. I just purchased a Weaver N2 side mount for it. I have a Weaver B6 scope that I am going to use. I got the N2 mount because it is vintage and will match the era of the gun. I need to drill and tap the holes to mount the scope. It looks straight forward: Clamp gun, clamp on scope with mount, bore sight, mark and drill holes obviously making sure that I don't go too deep. Tap and mount scope. Have I missed anything? Any other tips? I am also considering boring out the chamber for 22 WMR, (which is another topic I plan to discuss) as the chamber has significant corrosion. (still shoots good though) I use it primarily to test my re-load 22lr.(yet another topic) I also plan to re-load the 22WMR in the future. I have read a lot of good stuff on THR and look forward to learning and chatting with you folks.
Hans (Traffer)

 

[d2wing]

Wasn't it drilled and tapped for a scope rail? I will be interested in how it goes. I have a 540XR. I never thought of converting it to .22 Mag. Keep me posted.

 

[Traffer]

This is an old one. Actually a first year issue 1948. No drill holes, no rails. Can only use top mount if you go way up high because you need to get at the breech to load. Side mounts are recommended. Of them #2 Weaver or #N2 or N3 Weaver are the only ones that will fit. People are telling me not to put a scope on because it is a "collectible gun" But I absolutely need a scope. I cannot get a group with iron sights. I am developing match grade ammo and have to be able to drill em in a tight group to experiment with the ammo.

 

[rcmodel]

I would recommend gluing the mount to the receiver with quick-epoxy, or CYA adhesive and shooting the gun to make sure the scope can be zeroed.

Those old B model weavers don't have a lot of adjustment range to play with if you drill the mount holes in the slightly wrong place.

Once proven, then use the mount holes for your drill jig.

Not sure about the advisability of converting one to .22 WMF either.

The bore is smaller.
And the bolt face will need to be opened up to fit the rim.

Then the firing pin will be in the wrong place slightly.

rc

 

[Traffer]

Thanks. That is great advise. i am going to try gluing it and leaving it just glued because people are telling me that drilling it will ruin the collector value. I have heard some people say that they have glued em and had them stay on for many years. I don't think the barrel being one thousandth smaller is an issue with a boring it out. I have a Heritage 22 revolver that uses the same barrel for 22 Mag and 22LR with only a cylinder change. You are right about expanding the head clearance and possibly firing pin placement though. I am going to hold off on that unless this one just wont fire long rifles anymore because of the corrosion in the chamber getting too bad.

 

[rcmodel]

Well I have no idea where in the world you are??
(Because you didn't fill out your location in your member info page.)

However, if you are going to consider just gluing it on the receiver??

Glue it on with this, if you can get it wherever in the world you are??

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...king-liquids/black-max-adhesive-prod6139.aspx

As for ruining the collector value??
I wouldn't worry about that.

You have a $100 - $200 rifle at best.

Have your way with it.
It might be worth more with the vintage Weaver base & scope on it if you do it right.

If it was new, in the box, in unfired condition, it might have some collector value.

Since it isn't, it doesn't.

rc

 

[Traffer]

Thanks Very Much. I am in Wisconsin. I will fill in my info (Must have missed it) I appreciate getting reliable professional advise. I learned more in 2 min from you than days of research.

 

[rcmodel]

Thanks!

My secret is, if I don't know the answer?
I make something up that sounds plausible, then post it!!

PS: Be sure and optically center the scope x-hairs before mounting and bore sighting it.

You can do that a couple of ways.

1. Cut V-grooves in a cardboard box and rotate the scope in them while centering the dials so the X-hairs stay in one place in the center.

Or:
2. Place the scope against a mirror and look through it.
You will see the actual X-hairs, and a 'ghost' of them off-center.

Adjust the w & e dials until both images converge.

At that point, the adjustments are centered, and you can mount & bore sight the mount hole location and be assured you have enough adjustment to sight it in once mounted.

That's all I can make up that sounds plausible right now.

rc

 

[Traffer]

Not bad for seat of the pants made up advise. I found a tube of Black Max 380 on Amazon for under $8. Now I feel better. Would not have paid the 20 or 30 something dollars that they want most everywhere else. I had tried the quick epoxy before I got your suggestion to use the Black Max. When I took the clamps off the mount fell off. doh! And I got epoxy all over everything. Now I have a nice project cleaning that up. But, the hope of having a scope makes me happy anyway. I sure hope this darn thing shoots straight so I can develop some good ammo with it. Otherwise I will have to buy a new gun. With the prices now a days that is a bummer. I remember before JFK was shot, a "kid" I knew (12 yrs old) had a military surplus gun collection that he bought through the mail from Herters. Every gun was under $15. You could get just about anything (except M1's) for under $20. Wish I could go back and load up on some really nice stuff. AHHHHHH the good ol days.

 

[rcmodel]

Whatever adhesive you use, you MUST clean and de-grease the parts with alcohol, acetone, lacquer thinner, or zippo lighter fluid.

Nothing will stick properly to old dried oil.



Now, my other question??

You spoke of reloading .22 RF and .22 WMR?
You DO now there are no primed RF brass for sale anywhere.
You do know there are no .22 RF reloading dies made anywhere.

And mixing your own RF priming compound to try and reload fired .22 RF cases??


You gonna shoot your eye out son!!!

Or blow all your fingers off mixing it.

Unless you are in the trade making explosives for some big company with all the safe-guards??

DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT TRYING IT!!

rc

 

[Traffer]

I have reloaded hundreds so far. The process is dangerous. The primer (Armstrong Mix) is the most dangerous stuff I have ever seen. I have had primer light up when I didn't want it to many times. There are ways to make it safer. I am developing safer and safer methods all the time. One thing still worries me. Seating the bullet puts pressure on the rim. I use steel dies which form a complete seal over the round when I seat the bullet. If one went off in that situation I would be maimed or maybe even killed. But I have learned to use less pressure seating the bullets also. The primer is the main thing to be careful with. I am now only using enough primer for one bullet at a time so it wont hurt anything if it goes off. It has been quite a learning experience. There are not only no tools or specs on reloading these but the whole idea of reloading has to be reinvented for several reasons. Obviously rimfire primer. Another is that the slug is bigger diameter than the casing so you cannot crimp the same way you normally would with a press. There is no published guide to the powder, either how much to use or what type to use. I have figured out all of this. I am loading the rounds now to very close to the same velocity/energy/pressure as factory ammo. Another one is the hardness of the bullet. I have to cast my own bullets. There are no dies for 22 rimfire so I had to modify one and even then I have to modify the slug itself after molding it for a reason I am not willing to indulge at this point. I have loaded "hot" rounds that are way over pressure and ruptured the cases sending shock waves through the bolt back at me. So I now know how much powder to use. The bullet can be expanded when the round is done for a tighter fit giving better ballistics but then you have to be careful how hard the lead is. This is all why I need a bolt action for experimentation. I wish I had a strong break open instead. But this rifle suffices. What I want to do now is to try and load very accurate ammo. I know that match grade uses not only very precise tolerances but heavier slugs, subsonic powder loads and less lube. (that is another thing, I had to develop a lube for them along with a design to hold the lube. it took tons of research but I now believe I can load rounds that out perform factory ammo. I have had to invent a crimping process and fabricate the tools to do it. I have had to invent a resizing method and make the tools to do it. (resizing also requires resizing the inside of the rim. Not an easy thing to do). I think that now I am probably the most knowledgeable and successful 22 cal rimfire reloader there is. This process is still just a hobby and a curiosity. Obviously there is no way I can compete with the price of ammo. I can make them for about 3 cents per not counting my labor. That is the kicker. It takes over 15 minutes to reload one round when you consider all of the steps involved. But there you have it. It is really satisfying to go out and shoot "home made" 22 bullets.

 

[rcmodel]

Why don't you just go ahead and post some photos of the process.

That would be great!!

rc

 

[lobo9er]

RC proving he is the man once again I see.

 

[Traffer]

I will try to post photo's without giving away too many secrets. Some of the things that I do are indeed secrets. I am confused by lob9er's post. Are you insinuating that I am lying about what I am dong?

 

[Traffer]

Is there a way to post videos here?

 

[Traffer]

Back to the original thread question:
I would like to drill and tap that Remington 514 and attach the Weaver N2 mount correctly.
Gluing it to me is just crappy except for the purpose of zeroing the scope etc then mount with screws. I am a bit scared to drill/tap because the receiver in only 5/32" and the screws that seem to go with this are 8-40's which would not give me much of a bite into the receiver. Maybe 2 threads. I also would have to buy the tap. I would like to use a bottoming tap but am afraid that I couldn't start it. I could start the threads with a plug tap and finish off with a bottoming tap but that is extra expense. The receiver on this old 22 does not seem to be very hard steel at all. I have read that screws can pull out or strip in softer metal when they do not have much depth.I also have taken some general pictures of some of the 22 reloading, pictures of twice used brass, brass that I over loaded, some pics of tools etc. I tried to post them in a couple different ways but was not successful. I need someone to tell me how to post pics (especially to private messages)
Let me know what you think.

 

[Traffer]

Here are some pictures of reloaded 22lr's. A couple of pics of overloaded rounds in which the cases ruptured. A pic of my home made lube. A picture of some of my tools. I will be uploading more pictures of my reloading 22 work. But this is not the thread to be focusing on that.

 

[f150halfton]

just joined I have a remington 514 made in 1956 it has 2 drilled and tapped holes on the receiver2" apart on top. one is in front of the bolt the other is behind the bolt the holes are # 5 -40 thread are these factory made ? if so are they for a scope or what?

 

[Traffer]

Whether these are factory holes is a good question. My guess is that they are not. I would be interested to see a picture of them just to confirm where I am drilling my holes. I read in a different place where someone said they changed from a Weaver N2 base to a N3. (the difference between the two is that the N3 is a bit higher, making it possible to use the iron sights below the scope. but otherwise the two are exactly the same) So if that proved to be true, (which i kind of doubt) it would mean that they were factory drilled for either the N2 or the N3, but not both. I have placed the mount in the position that seems to be practically the only place that can accommodate it. Just like yours, one set of screws in front of the bolt handle hole and one behind. And just FYI Weaver came out with another type of side rail after the N series which is also out of date now. In this series the Weaver #2 mount will work on a Remington 514. It is a type that enables a thumbscrew disconnectable set of rings/mount. Both the N2 and the #2 mounts have the same screw hole pattern. In fact I am using the #2 for measuring because it is much easier to work with. With your gun having screw holes, you are a lucky man. If you want to put a scope on it, I can help you out because of the research I have already done. My suggestion would be to use an N3 mount. BUT they are the hardest to find and the most expensive. If you were to just go to eBay and buy one, it would run you over $30. Many times people sell old scopes with mounts on them. Sometimes the mount goes unnoticed and therefore cheap. I think a person is much better off looking for a scope/mount combo. You could conceivably find one for your gun for under $20. I have an old Weaver B6 (6 power) I took it apart and cleaned it. They recommend that you never do that but this one had no optical coating and not gas filled so it turned out ok.(Still a pretty intense endeavor though) I am hoping I can get some good grouping with my 514 after I put the scope on it. With the iron sights it is terrible for me. I have trouble with a 4" group at 50 yards. With my other 22 and the Weaver B6, I can get 1.5" groups at 50 yards.

 

[Traffer]

Oops, I didn't read your question well. Here is the answer you are looking for.
They are holes for a scope mount. Whether or not they are factory doesn't matter.
They are drilled for a Weaver scope mount. There are 2 different types of Weaver scope mount that will work in those holes. One (the older, which is a better match aesthetically) is a Weaver N series mount. This mount has the scope rings incorporated into the mount. It is for a 3/4" tube scope. The kind that are more common for 22's. The Remington 514 uses either a N3 or a N2 scope mount. The N3 is a bit higher, making the iron sights accessible when the scope is mounted. There is another series of Weaver mounts that are designed for that gun/hole configuration. The mount that works with the 514 in this series is simply the #2 mount. That mount is just a slab with more holes in it which accommodate another part of the mount which holds the scope. It also has the advantage of having thumb screws making the scope quickly detachable. All these things are available on eBay. You could pay as much as $60 or more for an N3 mount but generally they go for about $30. As I explained earlier the best way in my opinion is to buy a scope with an N3 or N2 mount already on it. If you google Remington 514 and Weaver N3 together you should find pictures of the gun with the scope mount/scope.
Hope that helps.

 

[rcmodel]

Emmmmm?

If it is drilled for a Weaver N3, it would not be drilled with two holes on top of the receiver.

It would be drilled for four holes in the left side of the receiver.

And it would not be drilled for 5x40 screws either.

Further:
You stated your receiver wall is 5/16".
With the bolt out, and drilled & tapped clear through to the inside with a tapered tap will give you 6.2 8x40 threads on each screw.

Total of almost 25 full threads for all four screws.

Plenty to hold a glued & screwed .22 scope mount on a rifle.

rc

 

[Traffer]

Right on all accounts. Sorry for giving out wrong info on the Weaver mount. I just figured he made a mistake about the size of the holes and didn't pay good enough attention to the rest of the question. Gonna have to do better than that.
On my 5/16 question, I didn't realize I could drill through. Thought I was going to have to make blind holes with a bottom tap. That scared me with only 5/16" to deal with. but now it looks like a piece of cake.

 

[f150halfton]

scope mount remington514 made in 1956

remington514 two holes on the top of receiver one hole in front of bolt one hole in back of bolt drilled and tapped to #5 - 40 are these scope mounts or are they for a peep sight? remodel any insight?

 

[rcmodel]

Somebody drilled it for 2-piece scope mount bases.

I don't think it was Remington.

They would not have used 5-40 screws.

rc

 

[Nature Boy]

RC proving he is the man once again I see.

It's almost to the point of being absurd. Everything RC says has merit. I read just about everything he posts. I don't have a Rem 514 or N2 Weaver, but here I am and I'm learning something.