Attitudes about trigger discipline were significantly different in that era than they are now. I'm still curious where @dobedo got his/her information, but it was definitely not from a SOF operator, either current or retired within the last 30 years.
Movies, finger off the trigger!
- Thread starter UncleEd
- Start date
UncleEd
Member
Now someone has gone too far. Everything? I think not.
And the statement can be disproven simply by citing that great
Christmas movie "Die Hard." All believable. A favorite scene
is our hero swinging on a fire hose while shooting his way
through a window. Pure genius for real life improvisation.
I'll agree Alec Baldwin was ultimately responsible, but the movie staff, or some of them, did not follow safe proper firearm handling.
I'll agree that movies/TV shows do not need to "instruct". And some instances, they need to show bad practices. But they do not need to advertise bad practices.
I'm amazed at the number of shows that the actors actively put their seat belts on when entering the car. They don't make a big thing about it just happens.
The same thing with fire arm handling. In situations where the heros are clearing a crime scene, having the finger outside the trigger guard would be good for the "want-a-be's" to see and use.
I'll agree, it is a high hope. But I think the entertainment industry needs to be somewhat organizationally sensitive.
Yes, but it is a minor thing to do it right in filming. Not a big thing but on the other hand maybe our over paid actors can't learn new "tricks".
Why not show the impressionable youths the right way.
UncleEd
Member
Is anyone here familiar with any study or reports, Hollywood aside,
of what actual response times are with different handguns for
the finger outside the trigger guard vs. inside?
And has this "outside" practice proven valuable in avoiding many
unintended discharges? I assume regarding this aspect it has.
of what actual response times are with different handguns for
the finger outside the trigger guard vs. inside?
And has this "outside" practice proven valuable in avoiding many
unintended discharges? I assume regarding this aspect it has.
UncleEd
Member
1970s, a scene from TV show "Adam 12" illustrates what was common back then.
At the time, the LAPD modified the S&W Combat Masterpieces to double action only:
At the time, the LAPD modified the S&W Combat Masterpieces to double action only:
Old Dog
Member
I wasn't gonna post in this thread until I went back and read through it again. Yikes! No disrespect to another forum member, but... no. Having had a few more than a couple occasions to clear shipboard spaces (VBSS in the Gulf), buildings, houses and rooms in both the military (Iraq) and on a law enforcement tactical teams in every position, including being the guy on an entry team with the ballistic shield which truly sucks, you gotta think about how often you get jostled, bumped, tripped (especially going up/down stairs, through doorways/doorframes), negotiating obstacles (furniture, plants, rugs, children's toys, and, oh yeah, pets), often while trying to proceed through darkness, smoke or gas... I went through my first tactical training courses in the mid-'80s, and we learned quick about keeping that trigger finger "indexed" ...
Actually -- it does not. Never watched a Michael Mann directed/produced movie? Or even the old Miami Vice TV show? There have always been, and still are, many directors who strive to get thing right. And even send their actors through firearsm training courses (or even mini "boot camps"). Plenty of war movies from the '60s through the early '00s had great production values and not only used combat vets as advisors, but also actors and directors. Many of the more recent movies depicting law enforcement or military have done a pretty accurate job in depicting small unit or tactical team movement and firearms usage. Even a lot of the new network TV shows such as the re-boots of Hawaii 5-0 and SWAT, as well as SEAL Team, clearly show that the producers are striving to get the weapons stuff more accurate and using guys as technical advisors who have recent LE or military experience.
This said, there is a lot of junk depicted on television and in the motion picture industry. Don't even get me started on the use of CGI. But, there are pockets of Hollywood that do pretty well.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say yes.
RikSors
Member
I enjoy watching the movie if proper handling of firearms are followed. Round counts and proper mag changes are a plus.
Studies? No. Reports, absolutely, depending how that's defined. Every SOF operator there is keeps their finger outside the trigger guard. I've trained under several individuals who could draw and get their first shot on an 8 inch steel plate at 7 yards in less than 3/4 of a second. There are no professionals who have real world experience who practice this nonsense of walking around with their finger on the trigger.
Yes. Absolutely. Ever tripped with a firearm and caught yourself with your other hand? Been startled while holding one? Fallen while climbing out of a vehicle? Run while holding one? When a person is startled, falls, trips etc. their hands involuntarily contract and it's physiologically impossible to contract three fingers and thumb without, to some degree, also contracting the trigger finger. If, when that happens, the trigger finger contracts against the slide/frame, no harm is done. If it's on the trigger....... There have been a number of police officers and suspects that were being chased who have been injured or killed due to an officer not following that rule. https://www.police1.com/archive/art...s-the-finger-obey-the-brain-h5z2h6XBiLr9Ie5j/
Because they don't care about impressionable youths (other than to make money off of them) and/or they don't know any better and want to follow tradition.
Not at all. But kids and adults have for yers been exposed to dramatic presentations in which the "good guys' engaged in actions that many people probably do not know to be unlawful. Would it be reasonable to conlude that real "good guys' who become "bad guys" by virtue of their doing similar things may have been condiotined to do so by seeing it in screen fiction?
I think so.
Few people may actually learn that such acts are unlawful, but reinforcing the idea that doing such things is accepted is not a good idea at all,
Gonna have to define "accepted". When the first westerns were were being made, there were actors in them who still remembered the days when it was perfectly acceptable for a group of private citizens to catch and hang a horse thief. I imagine it would have seemed very odd to them to promote the idea that people are supposed to just let thieves steal their possessions without shooting at them. That idea, that a person's property is theirs to defend how they see fit, is just an inherent part of being human. People generally want to see movies where the good guy wins and the good guy hiding in a bedroom while the bad guy drove away in his car would just not sell well. We can have all the opinions we want about what movie makers "should" portray, but ultimately, they're in it for the money, that's it. They're gonna make what sells.
As I said it before, I see more and more programs where the actors get into cars and put their seat belts on.
Why don’t they step up and portray proper, safe gun handling. It is not anything that is going to increase the cost of production.
Producers need to be part of the solution not part of the problem.
Laziness in executing this is not an excuse. Not being organizationally sensitive is not another excuse.
The gun community needs to promote the entertainment community portray safe firearm handling.
They don't care. Hollywood, in general, has no interest in promoting safe gun handling. If they're interested in anything gun related, other than making money with them, it's to promote banning them for the average person.
Besides all that, there's not really that significant of a problem with firearms accidents due to unsafe handling. It happens on occasion, but at a far lower rate than it used to.
hoardingthemanual
Member
I watched the newest Fast & Furious movie and some of the rifles had no sights whatsoever. No irons. No red dots. No scopes. These are elite teams, too. Apparently so elite they don’t need aiming reticles.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
I wasn’t going to post anything here regarding this subject, but I have to say that;
1. Hollywood isn’t real
2. I watch movies for entertainment, not instructional training.
3. If you nit pick everything that is inaccurate in movies is your entertainment the movie or how many “gotcha moments” you can find?
When I was in the Navy we had a guy in my division that would sit and watch the movie and constantly narrate about the weapons being used, the nomenclatures of the weapons, the improper weapon in the time period of the movie, the improper handling or operation of the weapons.
It got to the point where many of us had enough of it. He was invited to shut up or else. Everyone in my division was so stoked the day he made E-6. He could watch movies with the lifers in the first class lounge after that.
If you are one of those that see things in movies and announce them to everyone around you what is wrong and incorrect you may want to ask your family and or friends how they like it when you do that. You probably aren’t going to like what you hear. No one likes a movie critic during a movie or show.
This message is brought to you by the family and friends network and is not endorsed by those that manufacture blood pressure medication.
1. Hollywood isn’t real
2. I watch movies for entertainment, not instructional training.
3. If you nit pick everything that is inaccurate in movies is your entertainment the movie or how many “gotcha moments” you can find?
When I was in the Navy we had a guy in my division that would sit and watch the movie and constantly narrate about the weapons being used, the nomenclatures of the weapons, the improper weapon in the time period of the movie, the improper handling or operation of the weapons.
It got to the point where many of us had enough of it. He was invited to shut up or else. Everyone in my division was so stoked the day he made E-6. He could watch movies with the lifers in the first class lounge after that.
If you are one of those that see things in movies and announce them to everyone around you what is wrong and incorrect you may want to ask your family and or friends how they like it when you do that. You probably aren’t going to like what you hear. No one likes a movie critic during a movie or show.
This message is brought to you by the family and friends network and is not endorsed by those that manufacture blood pressure medication.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Don't get me started on the lack of basic highway safety and courtesy practices in the Fast and Furious movie series. Or the CGI sequences in which cars violate the basic laws of gravity and motion.
Seriously. Movies get things wrong that enthusiasts know are wrong and that tends to affect the "willing suspension of disbelief" essential to enjoying fiction of any genre.
Seriously. Movies get things wrong that enthusiasts know are wrong and that tends to affect the "willing suspension of disbelief" essential to enjoying fiction of any genre.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Modern movies do tend to show characters with finger outside the trigger guard until they are aiming at a target.
However photos and documentary footage from WWIi show unmodern trigger discipline back in the day. So "finger off the trigger" in a movie set in WWII could be called an anachronism.
However photos and documentary footage from WWIi show unmodern trigger discipline back in the day. So "finger off the trigger" in a movie set in WWII could be called an anachronism.
hoardingthemanual
Member
Yall got a lot of time.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Movies are movies. The only time we should expect them to be accurate is when they're training movies.
Books, TV shows, movies, plays...all are quite often exaggerated (or outright BS) for the level of drama desired. This is the dividing line between "entertainment" and "educational".
I would not watch the Three Stooges doing plumbing work to learn how to plumb my kitchen/bathroom for the same reason I would not watch The Boondock Saints to learn how to shoot guns.
Books, TV shows, movies, plays...all are quite often exaggerated (or outright BS) for the level of drama desired. This is the dividing line between "entertainment" and "educational".
I would not watch the Three Stooges doing plumbing work to learn how to plumb my kitchen/bathroom for the same reason I would not watch The Boondock Saints to learn how to shoot guns.
Marshall Trimble of True West Magazine has researched this, and he says it is unsubstantiated folklore.
Some well known desperadoes were jailed for stealing horses, however.
Others have researched it and reached a different conclusion. Regardless, it's against human nature to let someone steal your possessions, especially if those possessions are important to survival.who?
