The manual safety - yet again.

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Night Rider said:
And in all the times you've ever drawn a 1911 you've never failed to disengage the safety?
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No I haven’t. It’s part of the draw stroke and my thumb rides on top of the safety lever when I grip the pistol. It’s pretty hard for the safety to be engaged when the weapon is on target if your thumb is pushing it down as part of your grip. And no, the slide doesn’t rip your thumb off. The safety is disengaged without any conscious thought. It’s disengaged as part of the draw/grip.

The only time I think about the safety is when I engage it to holster the weapon.
 
I prefer a manual safety of course. The majority of them are frame mounted these days making it easy to disengage under stress. Be nice if someone tried a front strap grip safety again with an audible or more positive click that stay engaged once the pressure was applied. A true DAO hammer or non-preset striker designs is safer but something like a Glock needs one IMO. The trigger safeties are fine for a drop safety but dont do much for sloppy/accidental holstering. The aftermarket striker control devices incorporated into the backplate on the slide are a very nicely designed workaround so I recommend them to anyone who carries a Glock. I just wish they were available on other platforms. Once the patent expires (if thats the issue) Im sure they will be.
 
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Night Rider said:
I won't dispute your statement but a perfect record is just mind-boggling to me.

Again, I'm not questioning your statement, I just can't imagine it
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Another vote for never failing to disengage the safety. I can't remember ever failing to engage a 1911 safety. My thumb is on the safety when I'm shooting.

If your hand is shaped differently or a different size, maybe your thumb doesn't ride there. For a lot of people, forgetting to engage the thumb safety would be like forgetting to engage the grip safety.
 
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wayneinFL said:
Another vote for never failing to engage the safety. I can't remember ever failing to engage a 1911 safety. My thumb is on the safety when I'm shooting.

If your hand is shaped differently or a different size, maybe your thumb doesn't ride there. For a lot of people, forgetting to engage the thumb safety would be like forgetting to engage the grip safety.
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"G.I." 1911's, and 1911-A1's, don't come with a thumb porch.

WP_20180802_15_20_54_Pro-50.jpg
 
Gun-Reck said:
"G.I." 1911's, and 1911-A1's, don't come with a thumb porch.
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You don't need a "thumb porch" (whatever that is) to rest your thumb on the safety. I did it with the issue M1911A1s I fired in the Army and with my Colt MK IV Series 70 Government Model that is my primary carry weapon. I only own one 1911 type pistol that has a larger thumb safety, my Kimber Warrior. You do not need an extended safety.
 
Night Rider said:
I'm not sure I agree with that, an ambush is an ambush.
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I don't know how you can't see the difference.

On military operations you not only are fully expecting to run into trouble, you are told when to load and when to unload, when to chamber a round, when to disengage the safety and even if to engage the enemy or not.

And before someone gets stupid on me: this is mostly handled by SOP but that doesn't change the fact that you are not making the decisions.

As a civilian, you are NOT expected to head into trouble and don't have unit SOP to tell you what to do and when to do it.
 
Jeff White said:
You don't need a "thumb porch" (whatever that is) to rest your thumb on the safety. I did it with the issue M1911A1s I fired in the Army and with my Colt MK IV Series 70 Government Model that is my primary carry weapon. I only own one 1911 type pistol that has a larger thumb safety, my Kimber Warrior. You do not need an extended safety.
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It's a rounded nub.

When I put my thump on that Safety and hold it there? the grip activates the grip safety.

Same with the Govt. Model.

So, it's simply a Safety, on/off switch, no fooling fiddle-factor.
 
I came into this thread late but I would like to share an experience I had once. It was not long after I decided to start carrying. At that time I owned 2 handguns. A Dan Wesson model 15-2 and a Ruger P944. I thought the Ruger would be a better choice for carry so that was what I used. I read someone on a forum board post that since the slide mounted safety on their DA/SA pistol felt wrong to disengage they chose to just carry with the safety off. I started doing the same.
Sometime after that I went deer hunting. I was carrying the Ruger. I used my climber to go up a tree & did the quick pat your stuff routine to make sure everything was still in place. When my hand bumped against the slide of the Ruger (which has an ambi safety} I realized the safety I had left off was now on.
I came to the conclusion that even if one plans to not use the safety on a handgun they should still practice disengaging it. Even if you carry safety off you should still go through the motions of disengaging it during the draw. That experience & others have taught me that safeties don't always stay in the same position you leave them in.

I have went through some different handguns between then & now. I had been carrying without an external safety for a while. Recently I purchased a Ruger Max-9. I wasn't even thinking about the safety when I ordered it. After ordering I realized I had ordered the safety model. I honestly don't mind it as the little Ruger has about a 5 pound trigger with a rolling break. It is pretty easy to pull & I am carrying it AIWB. I have spent time practicing drawing from that carry position with it unloaded. I practice disengaging the safety as I draw. When I go shoot I engage the safety every time I reload & chamber. I disengage the safety before each string of shots. I had an issue early on with this pistol caused by me pushing up on the slide stop with my thumb. The safety is not big enough for me to ride like a 1911 safety. So I rest the side of my thumb knuckle against the side of the safety lever applying downward pressure. This keeps my thumb away from the slide stop & insures the safety is off.

If you have any suggestions I could use to do a better job of training with this pistol I am open to listening to them. I guess I am in the middle when it comes to the safety/no safety debate. I see advantages/disadvantages to both. I do strongly believe if your handgun has a safety you should train to disengage it.

Edited: I should do a better job of proof reading.
 
Ive never seen a disadvantage to a manuel safety (1911). Ive never failed to disengauge or slowed down in any way. I have a Glock also, but i consider an appropriate holster part of the safety. Its a great gun, no doubt. But the safety is disengauged by removing it from the holster. So in a way it does have a manuel safety.
 
Bcwitt said:
Im sorry you had that problem. Its an experience thing.
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No, it is not.
Bcwitt said:
I can show you how, if you cant do it.
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I had been doing it for years.

Failures can happen with any mechanical device--aircraft, chain saws, back hoes...... People who understand human factors engineering understand that and work to minimize it.

The 1911 design is a good approach. I happen to prefer the grip safety only concept for handguns.
 
As I aged I ended up in the Da/Sa decocker camp. Note my pistols are built with DA under seven pounds and light breaks and quick resets. They also have thumb operated push down decocker that keeps manual control of the hammer as it lowers. I feel very at ease to practice the four rules with this system. I noticed alot of elder retired pistol professionals have gone this way for their EDC.
 
Gordon said:
As I aged I ended up in the Da/Sa decocker camp. Note my pistols are built with DA under seven pounds and light breaks and quick resets. They also have thumb operated push down decocker that keeps manual control of the hammer as it lowers. I feel very at ease to practice the four rules with this system. I noticed alot of elder retired pistol professionals have gone this way for their EDC.
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Count me in this camp. The SIG Legion series (the originals with the Grey Guns P-SAIT) convinced me, great ergonomics, great sights, smooth DA trigger, a wonderful 1911-ish crisp SA trigger with a very short reset.
229 Legion.jpg
 
I've seen shooters with handguns, leveraction rifles attempt to fire multiple rounds with the safety still engaged. With the rifles they keep cycling the lever and pulling the trigger until finally they hear someone yell, "safety, safety" and they finally disengage it after cycling multiple live rounds out of the gun.

But these are typically shooters who have difficulty with every phase of shooting. Slow, not accurate, poor gun handling, everything. If it's difficult for a shooter to use a gun with a manual thumb safety, don't use one.
 
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