MP-443 Grach?

[Panzerschwein]

Hey guys. There is a neat pistol used by the Russian military called the MP-443 "Grach", also known as the "PYa" (Pistolet Yarygina):

Here is a video by Larry Vickers of Vickers Tactical describing the PYa:



I think it's quite nice. Interestingly it is chambered in the 9x19mm NATO cartridge. It was meant to replace the Makarov PM in service but from what I understand hasn't quite done so all the way. There are still many Makarov pistols in Russian police and military hands as we speak.

I wonder, with President Trump working to restore ties with Russia, with talks of possibly removing the Obama sanctions, it is an entertaining though to imagine that someday... perhaps in the near future, one of the old Russian export companies like the Kalashnikov concern might export this pistol? It would be very nice and appears to be a very cool little gun.

What are your thoughts on this? How would you like to own this Russian army gun?

 

[tahunua001]

well the arsenal strike one was also supposedly going to replace the makarov and also didn't fully do it, also chambered in 9mm nato. looks like a bastard child between a BHP and a CZ75. not really sure how I feel unless I can get some hands on it.

 

[MAKster]

I suspect the main attraction to this gun is the fact that it can not be imported. If you could purchase one I suspect you would quickly realize it is inferior to most of what is already available in the US.

The restrictions on importing Russian handguns is because of a 1997 trade agreement between US and Russia. I don't think that could be lifted unilaterally by the President like the post Ukraine sanctions.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I suspect the main attraction to this gun is the fact that it can not be imported. If you could purchase one I suspect you would quickly realize it is inferior to most of what is already available in the US.

The restrictions on importing Russian handguns is because of a 1997 trade agreement between US and Russia. I don't think that could be lifted unilaterally by the President like the post Ukraine sanctions.

Oh? But rifles would be okay if the sanctions were lifted?

 

[Mizar]

I've dealt with some MP446 Vikings, which is the polymer framed civilian version of MP443 - not impressed. QC problems all over it - from ridiculously sharp edges, rough machining marks everywhere (OK, I get it - low production cost, but is it really THAT necessary to cut myself every time I use it?!?), sloppy safety engagement with lots of sear movement, to one "splendid" specimen with about 0.5 mm (about 0.02") gap between the frame and the barrel upper locking lug. When in battery... And judging from other Russian made weapons I don't expect that the quality of the military guns (MP443) will be any different. It's an interesting pistol as a concept, but with lots to be desired in the QC department.

I suspect the main attraction to this gun is the fact that it can not be imported. If you could purchase one I suspect you would quickly realize it is inferior to most of what is already available in the US.

Amen to that! There is a simple reason why Russian guns are not so widespread, although with a "revolutionary design", "Niet analogov v mire" (No analogs in the world) and all the other crap - interesting guns, but with very poor execution, sloppy QC and some, politely put, idiotic engineering decisions.

Best,
Boris

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've wanted to get my hands on one for a long time. It's a neat all steel DA/SA pistol, is it 'new' ? Nope. But I still want one.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks gang. I didn't know about the ban on Russian handguns. But what about the old Stritz (Strike One) that used to be imported? Aren't those of Russian make?

 

[BlackJack]

Russian factories make things to military spec and have no interest in the demands of our civilian market. They have lots of "new" designs built that we suppose are their next generation handgun, but the Russian military is a lot more cost constrained than ours. Something as relatively useless as a pistol gets little attention when the rubles are being allocated. They already have wheelbarrows full of PMs and they're perfectly adequate for the purposes to which Russians put handguns. Plus, there are a gazillion sources for parts, ammo, holsters, etc., and no civilian market to contend with. Their army/military/police/security/criminal element is unlikely to adopt anything new in any numbers any time soon. And the demand in the West for a novelty like a Russian military gun will evaporate quickly when everyone sees how cheaply they're made.

 

[Acera]

They also make some specialized ammo for it. They have some AP rounds designed to penetrate body armor. The 7N31 pushes a 65 grain projectile almost 2,000 fps.

If interested, they also have another one. The Gyrza/SPS pistol is chambered in 9x21mm.


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[zaitcev]

GSh-18 and PL-14 are interesting too. Grach itself is a kinda contrary to modern trends though. It's a heavy steel-frame pistol designed to shoot +P+ equivalent. I doubt many people would be happy with it. In addition Mizar is correct about quality issues.

 

[zaitcev]

(huh, my first double-post ever... now I know how people do it)

 

[kozak6]

But what about the old Stritz (Strike One) that used to be imported? Aren't those of Russian make?

Nope. Made in Italy by Tanfoglio.

 

[zaitcev]

But what about the old Stritz (Strike One) that used to be imported? Aren't those of Russian make?

It was the exact Russian design by Arsenal, but made in Italy, precisely to avoid the ban on Russian guns.