MS:Judge Blocks Mississippi Constitution from Taking Effect on Open Carry of Arms

[Dean Weingarten]

In a surprise move, circuit Judge Winston Kidd ruled the law that restores the open carry rights guaranteed by the Mississippi Constitution as vague, and that an injunction is needed to stop irreparable harm.

This bizarre interpretation of the law comes late in the process. The law clarified a strange interpretation of the Mississippi concealed carry law that defined any kind of carry as concealed carry. According to that interpretation, even carrying a pistol by a thong around the neck was defined as "concealed carry" because the the thong "concealed" a tiny part of the pistol.

No other state in the union has such an interpretation of what "concealed" means.

Open carry of weapons has always been protected by the Mississippi Constitution. Concealed carry of weapons was protected until the Constitutional amendments of 1890, when the legislature was granted the power to regulate concealed weapons.

Here are the changes that have been made in the Mississippi Constitution regarding the right to bear arms since statehood:

1817 Mississippi: Every citizen has a right to bear arms, in defence of himself and the State.

1832 Mississippi: Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and of the State.

1868 Mississippi: All persons shall have a right to keep and bear arms for their defence.

1890 The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.

The clarification of the law passed the legislature with overwhelming margins, was signed by the governor, and was to go into effect on 1 July, 2013.

In support of the injunction, State Senator John Hornton, Democrat, of Jackson said "we don't believe that the constitution provides for open carry."

A hearing is scheduled for 8 July for more arguments to determine if the injunction should be extended for more time.

A lawyer for the Southern Poverty Law Center, played the tired old "wild West" card, claiming mayhem woud follow if the Constitution was enforced and open carry protected as it is in most states.

The Mississippi Constitution seems clear.

Link to previous article on the passage of the law

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/06/msjudge-blocks-mississippi-constitution.html

 

[fallout mike]

Makes me sick to my stomach. This new bill happened bc the old one was very stupidly written as you noted . Any little spot of the gun covered by , yes, even a thong made it "concealed". Crime is pretty bad forvsuch low population density. This idiot is probably just trying to prevent all the gangbangers from getting shot back at more easily. I live in a small town of 15, 000. We have multiple shootings every single night here. Massive number of break ins daily. We are tired of it.

 

[SleazyRider]

Why is that, Mike? I was only in Mississippi once, and I was surprised at the number of houses that had "ornamental iron" (a.k.a. steels bars) in their first floor windows and doors to prevent break-ins---even in the small towns! To what is this attributed?

 

[TennJed]

Why is that, Mike? I was only in Mississippi once, and I was surprised at the number of houses that had "ornamental iron" (a.k.a. steels bars) in their first floor windows and doors to prevent break-ins---even in the small towns! To what is this attributed?

Poverty and drugs. Born and raised on the edge of the delta. I now live in one of the more "affluent" areas of MS (Desoto county) but having spent my whole life in MS I can tell you that most small are plagued with poverty and hard drugs like crack and meth.

 

[SleazyRider]

I'm surprised. I always considered gang mentality a "big city" phenomenon.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

What a nut job on the Bench.

 

[TennJed]

I'm surprised. I always considered gang mentality a "big city" phenomenon.

Gangs are a BIG problem in small town MS.

 

[fallout mike]

This is attributed to living in small town MS for 29 of my 34 years on this earth. Gangs are rampant and the police have lost control. My towns population is 15, 000 and the big town in the county. On top of the shootings and massive amount of burglaries we've had a arsonist burn down over 40 houses, a rapist break into 20+ houses and rape women, and the fbi, dea, and homeland security lock the town down twice the last two years to try and do something about the gangs. 80% of the population lives on welfare. Answer your question?

 

[fallout mike]

This is actually the norm in small town MS. Nothing special.

 

[we are not amused]

Well! What do you expect out of liberal Democrat politicians and the Judges they appoint!

It seems they are too stupid to know what they voted for, or how to read the State Constitution. Apparently, State Senator John Horhn was too stupid to read the Bill he voted for.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

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In support of the injunction, State Senator John Hornton, Democrat, of Jackson said "we don't believe that the constitution provides for open carry."
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The Mississippi Constitution seems clear.

State Senator John [Horhn] is, in my opinion, a moron if this is actually his belief. But considering his biography on the Mississippi Legislature website seems ot focus more on the fact that he is a "motivational speaker" and "has appeared in several movies and television programs and is a member of the Screen Actors Guild" than any kind of law or legal experience, perhaps it should come as no surprise that he either hasn't read the Mississippi State Constitution, or can't understand the clear wording of it if he has.

What outstanding qualifications to have for someone who is responsible for writing and enacting state laws.

http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/members/senate/horhn.xml


As for their state constitution wording, I don't have a problem with it. Seems pretty clear to me:

"The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons."

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/statecon.htm

If the Mississippi constitution says the citizens can BEAR ARMS as a right, but the state may regulate or forbid carrying CONCEALED WEAPONS, what other way of carrying weapons are there other than open carry?

 

[brickeyee]

No Man’s Life Liberty or Property is Safe…While the Legislature is in Session

Judge Gideon Tucker

We turned back a 'stand your ground' law in the Virginia legislature because it was judged NOT as god as our existing common (case) law.

Under the existing common law we have no duty to retreat if we did not initiate the fight in any way in ANY PLACE you are otherwise legally allowed to be.
Anywhere.
House, car, public street.

You can meet deadly force with deadly force under a 'reasonable man' interpretation of the threat.

One of the remarks made by a member of the state legislature was 'the new law would not be as good as what we already have, and it would give the lawyers another shot at the common law.'

The only special provision the police in Virgina have is that if they point there gun at a suspect it is NOT considered brandishing.

Other than that they operate under the same common law as everyone else fr lethal force.

The police departments of course all have their internal regulations, but as far as the law goes they are under the same common law as the rest of us.

Reasonable fear of death or grave injury, no part in initiating the event, legally allowed to be wherever you are.

No one has dared to try a civil suite following a shooting that is otherwise 'allowed' under the law.
It would probably go nowhere, even if you could find an attorney to participate.

 

[230RN]

State Senator John [Horhn] is, in my opinion, a moron if this is actually his belief. But considering his biography on the Mississippi Legislature website seems ot focus more on the fact that he is a "motivational speaker" and "has appeared in several movies and television programs and is a member of the Screen Actors Guild" than any kind of law or legal experience, perhaps it should come as no surprise that he either hasn't read the Mississippi State Constitution, or can't understand the clear wording of it if he has.

Why do I have this nagging suspicion that he needs acting work and is pandering to the leftist-dominated acting community? No documentation. No proof. Just a suspicion.

A nagging one.

Terry, 230RN

 

[kendak]

I've lived in the MS. delta 65yrs. & things have changed ...work part time in LGS & the Democrats flock in there by the dozens when their checks come in at the first of the month to buy $150 to $200 .380 & 9mm autos....they all pack CC with or without permit...there are lots of small towns that have places that cops won't go after dark ...not supprised at what Hornton did he doesn't have a clue...at dark we lock & load & bolt the doors ....ahhh life in the MS. delta nothing like it ....take care

 

[NavyLCDR]

As for their state constitution wording, I don't have a problem with it. Seems pretty clear to me:

"The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons."

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/statecon.htm

If the Mississippi constitution says the citizens can BEAR ARMS as a right, but the state may regulate or forbid carrying CONCEALED WEAPONS, what other way of carrying weapons are there other than open carry?

The problem is that the Mississippi courts have ruled that any firearm carried in a holster is concealed by the holster and, therefore, requires a license to carry. That is what they are trying to correct here. Currently, the only way in Mississippi to open carry, without a license, is for 100% of the gun itself to be exposed to view.

The way the current court rulings in Mississippi are, if you want to open carry a handgun on your belt without a license, this is about the only way to do it:

 

[the fool]

Fallout Mike it sounds like your from Clarksdale too
don't forget about the ones that break into old women's houses then kill and burn them

 

[ngnrd]

... if you want to open carry a handgun on your belt without a license, this is about the only way to do it:

Isn't part of that handgun concealed by your leg?

 

[SleazyRider]

Got to admit, this thread has aroused my curiosity with regard to Mississippi's small-town gang culture. My first and only visit there was to follow the Natchez Trace a dozen or so years ago, and I have always wanted to return to explore the Delta Blues region around Clarksdale. This YouTube video, apparently produced in Clarksdale, however gives me pause: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmeIDMUoBrI .
Your concerns about concealed carry in Mississippi are well justified, but I can only offer my empathy, as I've already been stripped of my rights as resident of New York State. I pray that you will fare better.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The problem is that the Mississippi courts have ruled that any firearm carried in a holster is concealed by the holster and, therefore, requires a license to carry. That is what they are trying to correct here. Currently, the only way in Mississippi to open carry, without a license, is for 100% of the gun itself to be exposed to view.

The way the current court rulings in Mississippi are, if you want to open carry a handgun on your belt without a license, this is about the only way to do it:

Even so, going by what I've read, the gun could still be considered concealed if your hand obscures any part of it or if your body is between the gun and the observer.

Looks like Mississippi's way of getting around their own constitution...they can't outlaw open carry and are strictly limited to regulating or prohibiting concealed carry...so they re-define what concealed carry means.

 

[230RN]

So it seems that as soon as you hold a gun in your hand it becomes "concealed?"

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

^^^^

Bingo!

 

[fallout mike]

Sleazyrider, I live in clarksdale. You link isn't working for me. What's it pertaining to?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I watched a little of the video Mike. It's basically what you see when you drive down any street in C-Dale. Groups of thugs smoking pot, flipping off the camera etc. I'm at my desk at work, so I can't have any volume, but considering the time I've spent there, I don't need it. I've got a pretty good idea.

 

[SleazyRider]

It's good that you don't have any volume there, Paul, as the offensive language---most of which is indiscernable---and repeated use of the "N" word would raise the eyebrows of all within earshot. It is a travesty of the highest order, and one that appears to have no solution, especially when this type of behavior is endorsed---celebrated, perhaps---in popular media.

Also see: http://midsoutherner.wordpress.com/...white-crime-on-the-rise-in-rural-mississippi/ for a comprehensive article about rural crime in Clarksdale.

 

[SleazyRider]

Sleazyrider, I live in clarksdale. You link isn't working for me. What's it pertaining to?

Try inserting "Clarksdale Mississippi Slumalot" in the YouTube search window. It begins in a postcard format, and for a moment or two I thought it was produced by the Clarksdale Chamber of Commerce or tourist council. I don't believe these fellows are associated with the C of C, however.