Muzzleloader for Home Defense

If it were a Brown Bess the bayonet would be an excellent back up. You could do some serious damage from nearly 6 feet away. I have a nice collection of about a dozen bayonets from Revolutionary War times to the Korean War. I would prefer to be shot than run through with any of them.
 
a black powder firearm can be left loaded "forever" and be counted on to fire reliably, on par with any smokeless powder cartridge.
I can testify to the longevity of black powder. Growing up, my family had an old original flintlock pistol from the Balkans. We would occasionally try the lock, and it would spark strongly every time. Well, when I was about 15, I decided to check the inside of the barrel. A cleaning rod would only go about halfway down. Using a jag, I pulled out some old rags (no bullet) and then a double charge of black powder. Spread out on the ground, the powder deflagrated very convincingly. The only reason it didn't go off all those many times that we had pulled the trigger, must have been because the vent hole was plugged with dried grease and dirt. The gun must have been loaded for the last time probably before 1850.
 
If it were a Brown Bess the bayonet would be an excellent back up. You could do some serious damage from nearly 6 feet away. I have a nice collection of about a dozen bayonets from Revolutionary War times to the Korean War. I would prefer to be shot than run through with any of them.
I've often thought that the point of the bayonet would sometimes be more "convincing" than just the firearm alone. Someone might try to "call your bluff", thinking you won't shoot, but getting poked at with a long sharp pointy thing would cause them to back up or back off, I would think.

I would love to have a bayonet for my Bess, keep "meaning" to get one.
 
Reminds me of a meme I saw the other day, about messing with old men, went something like: Old men can't run, so they fight to the death, and then go have coffee." or something like that.
"Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight he'll just kill you."
Steinbeck.
One of my favorites. I am an "Old Fart".
 
I would love to have a bayonet for my Bess, keep "meaning" to get one.
I've found that the best source for Bess bayonets is G. Gedney Godwin "The Sutler of Mt. Misery." They're asking around $63 for them. You have to specify if it's for an Italian (Pedersoli) or Japanese reproduction.

Chief characteristics are the zig-zag locking slot, reinforcing collar, no locking ring, and shoulder at the rear of the blade. Blade is 16.5" long and socket is 4" long. This makes the musket, with bayonet mounted, a total of 76.5" long.

IMG_1252a.jpg
 
Last edited:
Black powder is not hydroscopic, it will not "absorb moisture from the air" as some say. It will however, absorb oils and solvents from poor preparation when loaded. That is where the myth comes from. Properly cleaned and "prepped", a black powder firearm can be left loaded "forever" and be counted on to fire reliably, on par with any smokeless powder cartridge. Consider that black powder is made with water, and then allowed to dry in open air. :)
I do like the word hydroscopicity though.

Lot could go wrong defending yourself with a bp firearm but then, much can go wrong defending yourselves with any other weapon as well. Years ago I responded to a 911 call to a ranch near here. Made Good time because it was 03:00 and I’d been called to the house a few times before. This time when the guy got wound up and started working her over she grabbed a Remington Army replica and shot him once right dead center. He dropped right there. I arrived about 20 minutes after that and there was still a haze in the room. It was pretty plainly self defense but the woman was a habitual cocaine user, not terribly well liked in the community, and the Prosecutor frankly wanted to be seen as tough on crime. She was acquitted by a jury.
 
No pictures of the muzzle loader yet?

I hope they allow him to clean it before they confiscate it as evidence.
They won’t. And they won’t clean it if they run ballistic tests either. Generally cops treat this stuff pretty poorly.
 
They won’t. And they won’t clean it if they run ballistic tests either. Generally cops treat this stuff pretty poorly.
I know. Generally the cops chosen for the Property Room are guys disinterested in firearms (no urge to steal). My buddy worked the Sheriff's Property Room and used to go next door to help the po-leece property guy diassemble them for smelting. Long guns were jammed down a barrel and handguns tossed onto a shelf. They didn't care if it was a Mossberg 500/Rem 870 Express or an engraved Krieghoff/Perazzi with extra fancy walnut. Let's see if we can shove something else down that barrel.

That's why I never advocated for using the fanciest & most bestus fyrearm for home defense. You want something reliable (priority #1) & if it's cheap (inexpensive), all the better.
 
They won’t. And they won’t clean it if they run ballistic tests either. Generally cops treat this stuff pretty poorly.

If it were a Brown Bess or any other smoothbore how would they do a ballistic test? Are there that many people shot with muzzleloaders that they need to do a ballistic test? Black powder isn't hygroscopic until it's fired. Plenty of people have been killed with ordnance and rifles that have been buried in the ground for over 150 years. FWIW an original P53 Enfield bayonet will fit an Armisport just like it's supposed to.
 
I've often thought that the point of the bayonet would sometimes be more "convincing" than just the firearm alone. Someone might try to "call your bluff", thinking you won't shoot, but getting poked at with a long sharp pointy thing would cause them to back up or back off, I would think.

I would love to have a bayonet for my Bess, keep "meaning" to get one.
Guys are definitely afraid of sharp pointy things. During bayonet training and then later in the field you could tell that most guys didn’t like the idea of knife or bayonet fighting at all. Nobody wanted to be shot or blown up but knives and bayonets are just freaking nasty weapons.
If it were a Brown Bess or any other smoothbore how would they do a ballistic test? Are there that many people shot with muzzleloaders that they need to do a ballistic test? Black powder isn't hygroscopic until it's fired. Plenty of people have been killed with ordnance and rifles that have been buried in the ground for over 150 years. FWIW an original P53 Enfield bayonet will fit an Armisport just like it's supposed to.
Because investigators look at every possible piece of evidence. Miss one thing and the County attorney will be calling for your head. Your sheriff will likely give it to him.
 
FWIW an original P53 Enfield bayonet will fit an Armisport just like it's supposed to.
Civil War bayonets.

The top bayonet is an India-made reproduction P53 Enfield. Note the shoulder at the rear of the blade, a feature that goes back all the way to the Brown Bess.

The middle one is likewise an India-made reproduction of the M1855-M1864 Springfield. The blade flows smoothly into the socket.

The bottom one is an original Springfield. Considering how expensive the inferior Indian reproductions are, and how available the originals are at reasonable prices, it's a no-brainer to get an original bayonet, even for a reproduction musket.

Trapdoor bayonets are nothing more than M1855-M1864 CW bayonets, with the sockets swaged down to fit the smaller-diameter Trapdoor barrels, and then blued.

IMG_1253a.jpg
 
Not a good pic but top is an original P53 Enfield bayonet. Next is an original1861 Springfield bayonet somebody cut part of the socket off of. Next is a dug P53. Bottom two are original musketoon bayonets.

eUojDRXl.jpg


Original P53 Enfield with bayonet attached.

xdZjamSl.jpg
 
Never thought of a smoothbore. Not a bad idea. Buck 'n ball inside a house at close range. BTW, nice P53 and pig sticker Hawg. Did you know the P-53 short rifle was reserved for Confederate sharpshooters (another way of saying light infantry skirmishers) in both the Army of Northern Virginia and The Army of Tennessee.
 
Never thought of a smoothbore. Not a bad idea. Buck 'n ball inside a house at close range. BTW, nice P53 and pig sticker Hawg. Did you know the P-53 short rifle was reserved for Confederate sharpshooters (another way of saying light infantry skirmishers) in both the Army of Northern Virginia and The Army of Tennessee.

I actually did know that.
 
As intimidating as a bayonet at the end of a musket might actually be, I wouldn't want to try to wield a 6 1/2 ft pointy thing inside most living rooms or hallways, etc. The bayonet would likely end up stuck in a wall, ceiling or furniture before getting to the bad guy.
 
As intimidating as a bayonet at the end of a musket might actually be, I wouldn't want to try to wield a 6 1/2 ft pointy thing inside most living rooms or hallways, etc. The bayonet would likely end up stuck in a wall, ceiling or furniture before getting to the bad guy.
Truth, I agree, but once you got Mr. Badguy backed into a corner, or at the end of the hall, I bet he'd begin to cooperate. !!! :)
 
I've found that the best source for Bess bayonets is G. Gedney Godwin "The Sutler of Mt. Misery." They're asking around $63 for them. You have to specify if it's for an Italian (Pedersoli) or Japanese reproduction.

Chief characteristics are the zig-zag locking slot, reinforcing collar, no locking ring, and shoulder at the rear of the blade. Blade is 16.5" long and socket is 4" long. This makes the musket, with bayonet mounted, a total of 76.5" long.

View attachment 1192707
Yes, I have a Pedersoli, and would not expect a fit "out of the box". Just figure I might have to ream it out to fit, assuming it's usually a case of the barrel being too thick or of greater diameter than the socket. ?? I have the "Ranger Carbine" and figure the muzzle is even a bit thicker than the full length musket. Do you know if that is usually the source of the fit-problem? Socket undersized for the barrel?

I often carry my Bessie in Grizz country, I think having the bayonet would be a very cool addition. And I could use it to roast my brats over the fire. Win-win! Anyhow, $63 ain't bad at all.
 
Black powder for home defense…. I use indirect fire.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0713.png
    IMG_0713.png
    362.2 KB · Views: 7
  • IMG_0711.png
    IMG_0711.png
    448.8 KB · Views: 7
  • IMG_0712.png
    IMG_0712.png
    238.9 KB · Views: 7
I know. Generally the cops chosen for the Property Room are guys disinterested in firearms (no urge to steal). My buddy worked the Sheriff's Property Room and used to go next door to help the po-leece property guy diassemble them for smelting. Long guns were jammed down a barrel and handguns tossed onto a shelf. They didn't care if it was a Mossberg 500/Rem 870 Express or an engraved Krieghoff/Perazzi with extra fancy walnut. Let's see if we can shove something else down that barrel.

That's why I never advocated for using the fanciest & most bestus fyrearm for home defense. You want something reliable (priority #1) & if it's cheap (inexpensive), all the better.
When I was really young, and just as dumb, I loaned my Grand-dad's double hammer gun to a friend. Yep, wound up in the property room. He got in some trouble. When I picked it up, they turned it over to me no problem, I discovered it had been dry-fired numerous times, the firing pins were hammered into the channels quite snug. Like jammed in really hard and tight. Was able to fix it though.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I have a Pedersoli, and would not expect a fit "out of the box". Just figure I might have to ream it out to fit, assuming it's usually a case of the barrel being too thick or of greater diameter than the socket. ?? I have the "Ranger Carbine" and figure the muzzle is even a bit thicker than the full length musket. Do you know if that is usually the source of the fit-problem? Socket undersized for the barrel?
All the reproduction bayonets are made in India or Pakistan. The problem is that the dimensions (including, especially, the inside socket diameter) vary slightly from one example to the next. This is why I like Godwin as the source. He try-fits the bayonets to his sample guns, and defarbs them (removes the "India" markings).

If the socket is too tight, you can ream it out with emery cloth wrapped around a dowel. If it's too loose, there's not much you can do (maybe squeeze it in a vise).

For Civil War era bayonets, a better starting point is usually an original. Prior to the CW era, original bayonets are too expensive in comparison to the reproductions. (For this purpose, I include the M1842 bayonets in the CW era.)

I have half a dozen repro socket bayonets that I just couldn't get to fit acceptably. Chalk these up as lessons learned.

Here's my rack of reproduction muskets with socket bayonets. From left to right, Brown Bess, M1795 Springfield, M1816, M1842 (x2), M1855, M1861 (x2), M1861 Special, M1864. All the bayonets, except for the first three, are originals.

IMG_1254a.jpg
 
Back
Top