CountGlockula
Member
Great research Noxx.
My CHL is worthless in CA...how do I defend myself?
- Thread starter StrikeFire83
- Start date
- Status
MudCamper
Member
gunsmith
member
in CA open carry is generally a bad idea
I have a friend in SF who is a criminal defense attny, I used to drive him nuts by open carrying my Glock (unloaded) to the gun show.
There is an exemption for that purpose.
This is true however it requires a special license and is good only in that county and as such is useless to a screenwriter in Los Angeles.
Glockman, I agree with you, I carried the way you suggest to the gun shows at the cow palace and the cops there didn't even blink....but....I only did that to and from the gun show and I didn't load my mags.
I direct you to your post, # 23 I think
CA has pretty good self defense laws, there was a guy in LA a few years back who shot some gang members who were attacking him and while he had to go to court he didn't get dinged either for unlawful ccw or self defense.
sandy4570
If you do not mind not having the latest in cool EBR stuff and are willing to live outside of the SF Bay area and LA, CA is pretty good for handgun enthusiast.
I have a friend in SF who is a criminal defense attny, I used to drive him nuts by open carrying my Glock (unloaded) to the gun show.
There is an exemption for that purpose.
This is true however it requires a special license and is good only in that county and as such is useless to a screenwriter in Los Angeles.
Ca is better then NY in this regard and generally has fewer restrictions then the rest of the country.
Glockman, I agree with you, I carried the way you suggest to the gun shows at the cow palace and the cops there didn't even blink....but....I only did that to and from the gun show and I didn't load my mags.
I direct you to your post, # 23 I think
I think you will argue the point further
CA has pretty good self defense laws, there was a guy in LA a few years back who shot some gang members who were attacking him and while he had to go to court he didn't get dinged either for unlawful ccw or self defense.
sandy4570
NO!, you are WRONG!! We need better screenwriters!
If you do not mind not having the latest in cool EBR stuff and are willing to live outside of the SF Bay area and LA, CA is pretty good for handgun enthusiast.
kungfuhippie
Member
NOOOOOO Riverside Co. is as bad if not worse than L.A. county. try californiaCCW.org for more help.
Creeping Incrementalism
Member
Noxx said:
Dude, don't ever take what the idiot clerks at the Cal-DOJ say as law (ditto for PDs & SDs). Ask around about that at CalGuns.net. Open carry has always been legal in California, and this is well established. The phrase "including, but not limited to" modifies "attached in any manner to a firearm."
Sir Aardvark said:
Considering that you're more likely to die in a traffic accident than by crime, I'd say that commuting more to get a CCW decreases your odds of living.
glockman19 said:
You have GOT to be effing kidding me! You OC on a daily basis in LA/OC counties and all the cops know who you are and they all leave you alone now, and all you ever got was a few lectures?
I'm gonna post about this on CalGuns.net. I want video evidence of this daily miracle.
Creeping Incrementalism
Member
Yeah, that's their usual pass the buck response. Pathetic considering part of their mission is to be the authority on firearms law in the state.
glockman19
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2007
- Messages
- 3,700
Once again...a magazine is NOT a firearm and a loaded magazine, in your pocket, NOT ATTACHED to a firearm, that is holstered, is LEGAL Open Carry in California.
gunsmith
member
I love it when I'm right!
Professor K
Member
Yes, but he's in liberal hollywood, and he'll get no jobs if he OCs, so it doesnt matter if it's legal or not, it's not worth the trouble for him.
I say try applying for the Orange County CCW, and if you dont get it, but you still wanna CCW, then go import a NAA mini revolver or Keltec P32, and register it with the DOJ. I think that's how it works, correct me if I'm wrong? You can import not CA approved handguns into CA, if you say you owned them before you moved, right? Something like that. I mean, you'd have to CCW deep, but I'd rather have a misdemeanor on my record and a 250 dollar gun taken away from me than be dead.
But if you wanna stay law abiding, just learn to be a better fighter, and work out more. You can also carry OC spray and other stuff like that, but after seeing this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SnPveZLcwZ8 I dont trust it too much. If that guy were violent, then you'd either need a gun to take him down, or 10 guys like in that video.
I say try applying for the Orange County CCW, and if you dont get it, but you still wanna CCW, then go import a NAA mini revolver or Keltec P32, and register it with the DOJ. I think that's how it works, correct me if I'm wrong? You can import not CA approved handguns into CA, if you say you owned them before you moved, right? Something like that. I mean, you'd have to CCW deep, but I'd rather have a misdemeanor on my record and a 250 dollar gun taken away from me than be dead.
But if you wanna stay law abiding, just learn to be a better fighter, and work out more. You can also carry OC spray and other stuff like that, but after seeing this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SnPveZLcwZ8 I dont trust it too much. If that guy were violent, then you'd either need a gun to take him down, or 10 guys like in that video.
RoadkingLarry
Member
Sorry guys, No offense intended. I spent 4 years stationed in Ca in the early/mid '80s( San Diego and Vallejo) but due to the current political situation in the state I would not go there for a visit. I fully understand the the rational people in CA have been out voted by those that do not live in the real world and only hope that some day they will be able to take back intelligent control of their beautiful state.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,713
Lived there from 1982-2001--ten in the Bay area, and ten in the LA area. Wasn't always as silly as it is now, but it went consistently down hill. Don't know how much further it can go, but I got out when I could.
Want to stay? I wish you luck, but have no real answers. I miss a lot of things about CA, but none of them enough to make me even consider moving back.
Good luck.
Want to stay? I wish you luck, but have no real answers. I miss a lot of things about CA, but none of them enough to make me even consider moving back.
Good luck.
Prince Yamato
Member
Guys, guys, you miss the easiest answer:
Make it big in Hollywood, then you get your CCW in CA and NYC!
Ok, but seriously, I wouldn't want ANY weapons charge on my record. Also, I think open carry will freak more people out than you'd like in liberal CA. So, like the others said, move to Orange County and commute.
Make it big in Hollywood, then you get your CCW in CA and NYC!
Ok, but seriously, I wouldn't want ANY weapons charge on my record. Also, I think open carry will freak more people out than you'd like in liberal CA. So, like the others said, move to Orange County and commute.
thexrayboy
Member
To the OP of this thread. I fully understand your feelings of "nakedness" in Kali after being a citizen in another state. Unfortunately the political climate in California does not easily lend itself to adequate self defense outside of ones home. Just a sad fact of life. Some of the more rural areas of the state are more lenient than the cities and the sheriff in Orange County is a far cry better about CCW than most others chief LEO's in So. KAL. However
California is a "May issue" state. Plain and simple. It is entirely up to the discretion of the LEO in your jurisdicition as to whether you can carry or not.
In most places that means your odds of getting a CCW are about the same as winning the state lottery. In other areas the odds are better, they rank up there with getting struck by lightning. In the very rural areas you odds of getting a CCW are about even. Unfortunately you have elected to move to one of the bastions of liberalism. The chances of you getting a permit are essentially zero unless you become very rich, famous and politically connected.
I lived and worked in So Cal for 15 years. Many of those years I spent commuting to areas like E. LA. Compton and So. Central LA. I routinely carried. I knew what the law said and what the potential risks were. I did it anyway as I felt my life was too important to risk and I knew that the police had little to no control in many areas. You will simply have to decide for yourself if you want to risk the misdemeanor charge for carrying or risk your life for not carrying. The only realistic alternative is to move. But to pursue your dream you must live among the sheep in LA LA land.
California is a "May issue" state. Plain and simple. It is entirely up to the discretion of the LEO in your jurisdicition as to whether you can carry or not.
In most places that means your odds of getting a CCW are about the same as winning the state lottery. In other areas the odds are better, they rank up there with getting struck by lightning. In the very rural areas you odds of getting a CCW are about even. Unfortunately you have elected to move to one of the bastions of liberalism. The chances of you getting a permit are essentially zero unless you become very rich, famous and politically connected.
I lived and worked in So Cal for 15 years. Many of those years I spent commuting to areas like E. LA. Compton and So. Central LA. I routinely carried. I knew what the law said and what the potential risks were. I did it anyway as I felt my life was too important to risk and I knew that the police had little to no control in many areas. You will simply have to decide for yourself if you want to risk the misdemeanor charge for carrying or risk your life for not carrying. The only realistic alternative is to move. But to pursue your dream you must live among the sheep in LA LA land.
Just FYI there are certain places that simply having a gun and ammo on your person constitutes a loaded firearm.
Say you're going across town, you have a tattoo appointment. You cruise around a while looking for a parking space but you finally find something around the corner and down the block. Your polypistol is on your belt, unloaded, no mag. You have a loaded mag in your back pocket. You spot the tattoo place direct line of sight across a big parking lot, and decide to hoof it as the crow flies. Halfway across the lot you get accosted by armed security. Turns out that parking lot was for a .gov building of some sort. Property of a government institution is one of the caveats (I have seen the law but the specifics evade me at the moment). Oops, loaded weapon, even though it's not "loaded".
Unlikely yes but possible due to the weird tapestry that is California firearms law.
Say you're going across town, you have a tattoo appointment. You cruise around a while looking for a parking space but you finally find something around the corner and down the block. Your polypistol is on your belt, unloaded, no mag. You have a loaded mag in your back pocket. You spot the tattoo place direct line of sight across a big parking lot, and decide to hoof it as the crow flies. Halfway across the lot you get accosted by armed security. Turns out that parking lot was for a .gov building of some sort. Property of a government institution is one of the caveats (I have seen the law but the specifics evade me at the moment). Oops, loaded weapon, even though it's not "loaded".
Unlikely yes but possible due to the weird tapestry that is California firearms law.
Librarian
Member
It's MUCH narrower than that - applies only to governor's mansion and the legislative office buildings, residences of constitutional officers and legislators, and the State Capitol grounds - PC 171(c,d,e).
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,713
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe that is a misdemeanor charge...
dasmi
Member
Your life is more important than any evil, immoral law. Just a thought.
Librarian
Member
It can go either way.
If
- it's a first offense,
- and you are legally allowed to own/possess firearms,
- and you are not committing any other crime,
- and the gun actually belongs to you,
- and you are not part of a 'criminal street gang'
OP
OP
StrikeFire83
Member
Thanks to everybody for their input.
Frankly, open carry is not an option for me right now, regardless of its tenuous legality. I live in Silverlake, probably the most liberal (or one of the most liberal) parts of the city. Striking blows for the cause and getting a police record in the process is simply not something I'm willing to risk right now. Add to that the temp clerical work that I've been doing is in large office buildings would not allow me to have my Glock or CZ strapped up in full view.
The folding knife and spray are certainly good choices, and I believe I’ll pick up both sometime this week or next weekend. I’ve got a leatherman and a 13 inch Buck right now, but a good folder is something I’ve needed for a long time anyway.
Because I’ve got a year lease, I won’t be able to move until June of next year at the earliest. Relocation does sound like a good potential option, but the whole reason I came out here is to get my stuff read and make contacts, something that’s hard to do from two hours away.
Anyhow, thanks to everyone for your support and suggestions.
Frankly, open carry is not an option for me right now, regardless of its tenuous legality. I live in Silverlake, probably the most liberal (or one of the most liberal) parts of the city. Striking blows for the cause and getting a police record in the process is simply not something I'm willing to risk right now. Add to that the temp clerical work that I've been doing is in large office buildings would not allow me to have my Glock or CZ strapped up in full view.
The folding knife and spray are certainly good choices, and I believe I’ll pick up both sometime this week or next weekend. I’ve got a leatherman and a 13 inch Buck right now, but a good folder is something I’ve needed for a long time anyway.
Because I’ve got a year lease, I won’t be able to move until June of next year at the earliest. Relocation does sound like a good potential option, but the whole reason I came out here is to get my stuff read and make contacts, something that’s hard to do from two hours away.
Anyhow, thanks to everyone for your support and suggestions.
Well if you jay walked by crossing the street outside of a crosswalk to get there then you did commit a crime with it.
A crime is extremely broad. Defending yourself with it is a list of crimes and enables it as an additional felony.
So these people that say otherwise are highlighting lucky individuals who recieved some lucky discretion.
Using it to stop an attack, threaten an attacker, etc while illegaly possing it is illegaly possessing it while commiting an additional crime. Illegaly possessing it also makes anything done with it a crime as well (which would have otherwise been legal, like defensive uses) and makes you eligable for serious enhancements for the commission of a crime while armed with a firearm.
Getting into your vehicle with it is an additional crime and can turn it into a felony alone for illegaly transporting it.
All these people that think it is a misdemeanor when the law itself makes that highly discretionary are demonstrating wishful thinking. All it takes is any other crime, not a serious crime ANY crime to turn it into a felony. Discharging the weapon, creating a disturbance for defending yourself at night, being intoxicated etc.
I could spend the evening showing you actual petty laws in CA that one would not realize is a crime, ranging from smoking in many places (illegal), to "loitering" which can be defined as stopping anywhere if an officer wishes. Loitering laws are insane, here is the definition of loitering by the free dictionary:
loi·ter (loitr)
intr.v. loi·tered, loi·ter·ing, loi·ters
1. To stand idly about; linger aimlessly.
2. To proceed slowly or with many stops: loitered all the way home.
3. To delay or dawdle: loiter over a task.
I could go on and on with things you would never know were a crime, and just took your "misdemeanor" discretionary crime and made it a felony.
So for all intents and purposes it is a felony to carry, kidding yourself about that is naive.
However many people illegaly carry all over, and you are vulnerable if you are targeted, so your self defense options consist of limiting your ability to be targeted by people not hampered by such laws.
Folders are generaly legal, however once opened in a locked position they are illegal. So they are only legal if they stay folded and put away. Opening them in your pocket for example makes you guilty of felony possession of a dirk or dagger/deadly weapon.
Furthermore several cities and areas have ordinances prohibiting otherwise state legal items. LA for example prohibits certain knives and some other items otherwise legal, violation of which triggers state law of a felony offense (which the state law actualy has a clause for.)
So you need to be very careful and do a lot of research both for the state, and for your locality. You have to become a part time lawyer to be legal in CA.
Librarian
Member
I rather thought that giving a 5-part test for a 'seems' result indicated I agreed with that.
Carrying in CA without CCW isn't necessarily a felony, but I don't personally find it a good risk.
- Status
