My first chainfire and sloppy Pietta quality control.

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Today I experienced my very first chainfire using a new Pietta cylinder. Both I and gun are fine but the cause of chainfire is worth making public to hopefully warn others. The reason was directly me (for not checking all chambers thoroughly before firing) and indirectly Pietta for passing through their quality control a cylinder inherently unsafe to fire. I used lube but without a wad as I assumed bullets give good enough seal that no extra precautions are required. That assumption is roughly true so long as pietta does not pass through a chamber with a deep scratch inside. Bullets were significantly oversized (.456 dia) but it didn't help much. Chainfire on very first cylinder.



So, sparks from adjacent chamber have a direct path to the powder and the result is... you guessed, chainfire. The cylinder was brand new, covered in factory grease. I take it all on me for not inspecting all chambers thoroughly but I post this to serve as a warning that each and every new gun must be THOROUGLY inspected before firing. Chainfire is not the worst thing that could have happend due to such sloppy quality control.

Anyways, I have unscrewed the nipple from the faulty chamber and intend to use it as 5 shooter only for the time being. Any ideas how this can be fixed are highly welcomed.

 

[Mizar]

Any ideas how this can be fixed are highly welcomed.

Reaming.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Reaming.

The chambers in 1858 are tapered so I'll need a professional gunsmith look into it.
Anyways, chamber walls are on the thinner side in 1858 remington, how much can they be reamed while still being strong enough? Feedback highly appreciated.

 

[crstrode]

Hooey. IF there was a chainfire, that imagined fatal flaw was not the culprit.

IF there was a chainfire, indeed it was on you, as you stated.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Hooey. IF there was a chainfire, that imagined fatal flaw was not the culprit.

IF there was a chainfire, indeed it was on you, as you stated.

I used significantly oversized bullet .456 with lube and tight fitting caps. Just like I've been doing for last 6 years with no chainfires. And it so just happens, the chamber that chainfired was the one with that deep scratch inside.

 

[hawg]

Where the bolt notches are cut is the thinnest part of the chamber walls. That's why the chambers are tapered. Just don't ream the chambers that deep.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Where the bolt notches are cut is the thinnest part of the chamber walls. That's why the chambers are tapered. Just don't ream the chambers that deep.

Thanks. I need to ream at most 0.7" so that I can reliably seat a bullet not worrying about sparks going along the scratch.

 

[Mizar]

...how much can they be reamed while still being strong enough?

.452 - same as the barrel. Hawg is right - you really don't want to ream them all the way, but only the portion that accepts the ball/bullet. Somewhere around .800" deep will be more than enough.

 

[kell]

Today I experienced my very first chainfire using a new Pietta cylinder. Both I and gun are fine but the cause of chainfire is worth making public to hopefully warn others. The reason was directly me (for not checking all chambers thoroughly before firing) and indirectly Pietta for passing through their quality control a cylinder inherently unsafe to fire. I used lube but without a wad as I assumed bullets give good enough seal that no extra precautions are required. That assumption is roughly true so long as pietta does not pass through a chamber with a deep scratch inside. Bullets were significantly oversized (.456 dia) but it didn't help much. Chainfire on very first cylinder.

View attachment 1155015

So, sparks from adjacent chamber have a direct path to the powder and the result is... you guessed, chainfire. The cylinder was brand new, covered in factory grease. I take it all on me for not inspecting all chambers thoroughly but I post this to serve as a warning that each and every new gun must be THOROUGLY inspected before firing. Chainfire is not the worst thing that could have happend due to such sloppy quality control.

Anyways, I have unscrewed the nipple from the faulty chamber and intend to use it as 5 shooter only for the time being. Any ideas how this can be fixed are highly welcomed.

Do you put lube under or over the ball? I put it under with a buffer like Cream of Wheat. The order is powder, COW, Crisco, ball. The theory being that when a cylinder is fired, the grease on top of the ball gets blown away. I got this from geojohn.org. Made sense to me. I've shot several hundred balls and never had a problem. Always used .451 only 'cause that's what I had.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Where the bolt notches are cut is the thinnest part of the chamber walls. That's why the chambers are tapered. Just don't ream the chambers that deep.

Also It seems that in newer Piettas they beefed up that spot behind bolt notch or it is sloppy machining. I can't tell.

 

[red rick]

Why not sending it back for a replacement ?

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Do you put lube under or over the ball? I put it under with a buffer like Cream of Wheat. The order is powder, COW, Crisco, ball. The theory being that when a cylinder is fired, the grease on top of the ball gets blown away. I got this from geojohn.org. Made sense to me. I've shot several hundred balls and never had a problem. Always used .451 only 'cause that's what I had.

I put grease in the dedicated grease grooves. I didn't use any filler because that bullet takes enough space in the chamber already.

 

[1KPerDay]

What size caps and what cones?

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Why not sending it back for a replacement ?

I bought the cylinder at a significant discount from a local gun store that was withdrawing from black powder business. So they won't deal with that. Can I mail to EMF (importer of Pietta) directly?

 

[kell]

I put grease in the dedicated grease grooves. I didn't use any filler because that bullet takes enough space in the chamber already.

View attachment 1155025

My balls don't have grooves.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

What size caps and what cones?

Factory cones and Remington #10.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

My balls don't have grooves.

Oh, when I use roundballs I put over the ball. This time however I was using only Kaido slugs.

 

[woodnbow]

The chambers in 1858 are tapered so I'll need a professional gunsmith look into it.
Anyways, chamber walls are on the thinner side in 1858 remington, how much can they be reamed while still being strong enough? Feedback highly appreciated.

Pietta reams the chambers on the Shooters Model to .454” and there’s plenty of strength to handle 30 grains of 3f and a kaido bullet.

 

[woodnbow]

Also It seems that in newer Piettas they beefed up that spot behind bolt notch or it is sloppy machining. I can't tell.

I’m going with sloppy machining.

 

[hawg]

Oh, when I use roundballs I put over the ball. This time however I was using only Kaido slugs.

You can still use lube over the bullets. Obviously the lube in the grooves isn't filling the scratch.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

The chambers can be reamed with a 453 reamer, that puts the ball size up to .457. You would have to knurl the bullets you use now a little bit to make them fit. Looking at that scratch going to ..453 might just get rid of it. I have reamed a few chambers and have the stuff to do it if your interested.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

The chambers can be reamed with a 453 reamer, that puts the ball size up to .457. You would have to knurl the bullets you use now a little bit to make them fit. Looking at that scratch going to ..453 might just get rid of it. I have reamed a few chambers and have the stuff to do it if your interested.

Thanks!
I'll consider fixing this cylinder a little project of mine. If it improves accuracy, I'll ream my other cylnders.
I'm thinking about ordering this reamer: https://www.brownells.com/tools-cle...ver-cylinder-throating-reamers/?sku=513000001
Will it work in Pietta?

 

[hawg]

I don't think it will. You need one with the cutting edge closer to the end of the reamer.

 

[J-Bar]

Just fire that chamber first.

 

[Mizar]

Cylinder throating reamers have long pilot bushings and they will not work OK with tapered chambers, because the pilot needs to be of the smallest diameter to fit all the way in. Even if you find a small enough pilot bushing to fit, which I doubt, it will rattle at the chamber mouths, thus compromising concentricity and the reamed portion will be shallow because of the long pilot - so, in order to have a deep enough hole of desired diameter you will have to cut the pin holding the bushing and repeat the process (you will have to ruin that reamer). Your best bet is to find a machinist to do it with a chucking reamer on a vertical mill - Jackrabbit can ream that cylinder for you and he knows what he is talking about. Your alternative is reaming with a hand reamer, but this requires steady hands and some skills to make it right. And at the end it will still leave you with a (very) slight taper at the chamber mouths - it's just the nature of the beast. It will not make any practical difference, but some people find it irritating. But be advised - hand reaming requires skill and patience and it's not for everyone. It's a very simple task to ruin a cylinder with a hand reamer...