My Garand is being a little finicky...

[Grampa]

I've covered this a bit before, but have a bit more experience, so want to ask again.

I have a CMP Garand that was originally purchased in 1978. It is a Winchester receiver, but was rebuilt with a new trigger set, bolt assembly, op rod, barrel and stock. My Dad had had it sitting in the corner for the past 25 years, and recently passed it along to me.

It shoots great! What a grand ol' rifle. I have been running into a few instances (5-6 times in the 40 rounds I shot last night) where the next round in the clip did not feed into the chamber. I have to manually pull the op rod back to chamber the next round. It's as if the spring is too strong to let the action cycle completely.

I'm shooting pretty standard reloads -- 47.5 gr. IMR 4895, full sized and trimmed brass, Hornady 150 gr. FMJ BT.

The op rod moves freely back and forth without any binding with the spring removed. Could it be that the gas chamber is too worn that not enough gas is getting pressed against the piston? Any other thoughts?

 

[Dave P]

How bout carbon clogging the gas hole between the bbl and cylinder? Easy enough to check - remove cyl plug and look inside.

 

[longtom4570]

I took my M1 to Smith Enterprise in Tempe Az, they took it apart gaged all the parts,took it out and shot it, and then opened the gas hole works fine

 

[Nando Aqui]

Grampa,

I read your post a while back as I was (still am) experiencing similar problems, and I posted my experiences as well within your thread.

I am in the process or replacing a few parts at a time, but have not solved the problem yet. My M1 (1945) does the same; it ejects fine every time, but fails to feed about once per clip. Usually, it is the first round that would be fed automatically that fails; that is, the second round in the clip.

You may like to read:
http://www.battlerifles.com/viewtopic.php?t=15667&highlight=

I'll keep you posted of what I do, and you tell me how you do - deal?

Alex

P.S. Another very interesting M1 site: www.dav32.com/action.html

 

[Grampa]

Alex-

Great information over on Battlerifles.com . Yes, it sounds as if we are having identical glitches. Mine may be a bit more intermittent than yours. Last night I had feed problems on the first and second clip, the third and fourth clips all fed and fired, but I let the rifle cool down and had a failure to feed on the 5th clip.

I have checked the gas hole and it is clear. I have not, however, mic'd the gas piston and tube. I would be interested in replacing both, as they look worn. The spring looks as if it's new, as part of the armory rebuild. The op rod does not feel as if it rubbing at all. I am very careful with my reloads, but will find some current surplus ammo to try.

I'll keep you posted if I have any progress.

Thanks!

 

[Biff]

Steve-

You said your load was 47.5 gr IMR4895 under a 150gr BTFMJ. The load that is commonly used to duplicate M-2 Ball is 48.5 gr of IMR4895 with in a government case. this should make the 150gr bullet fly at 2750-2800 FPS. Remington cases have a similar capacity to government, but winchester cases have more capacity, resulting in lower load density per charge weight. When I loaded up some Winchester cases with your exact same data, my velocities ran 2500-2550, and ejecton patterns were erratic. With surplus or commercial M-2 equivalent (UMC yellow box) my M1 will eject all its empties to the same place at 2:00. With the 47.5 grain load, they were all over the place between 11:00 and 1:00.

Your load may just be underpowered enough to reliably cycle your action. Try another half grain to full grain of powder and see if there is any change.

Or you may want to spend 10 bucks on a box of UMC 150gr FMJ .30-06 and see what happens.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nando Aqui]

Grampa -

I returned to the range and changed a few parts, but it didn't really help a lot. Came back home, cleaned out well and grease it (maybe too much.)

Returned to the range, and had just one no-feed. BUT, the darn rifle started ejecting the clips with four rounds still left in it! The first time it scared me, as they just 'rained' on my head! It did this for four consecutive clips. Accuracy also was not what it had been, which had been excellent - go figure.

Anyway, I read that too much 'grease' could cause 'premature ejection'. (We are talking guns here...) so I will watch that the next time.

At the range I normally go (public) I only get to shoot about 10 minutes every 1/4-hour, and it is a pain to do any work. I am planning to go to an open field (farm) over labor day weekend, and will continue my work then.

How are you doing?

Alex

 

[Grampa]

I've been working up some loads at 48 grains of IMR 4895. I'll probably get out to the range this weekend. Look for an update after that! I did check the gas hole, and it is clear.

 

[Grump]

Before either of you change out any more parts, check your op rod spring. I don't have the data here , but the op rod spring also powers the follower that pushes the rounds UP to where the bolt can catch them.

The standard check is for both the amount of pressure when compressed to so many inches, and overall length when uncompressed.

A weak op rod spring will result in failures to feed, even though the action is cycling full-travel. Increasing your load can make this type of problem worse, _unless_ the bolt/op rod pick up some rattle at the end of the stroke and get a small delay in the return stroke.

 

[Nando Aqui]

Grump:

I originally thought that the failure to feed, but not to extract and eject, may have been due to failure of the bolt to go back far enough to strip a new round. This could be caused by (1) not enough gas pressure on the piston or perhaps (2) 'too-strong of a spring?'

(1) I changed the cylinder and piston (op rod) which resulted in a much better fit: from about .006" to .003" difference between OD and ID, which meant that the gap went from .003" to .0015". This helped a lot, as initially, it would not extract or eject. Now it just fails to feed once in a while.

(2) I had two springs to play with. Both springs were USGI as far as I know. I measured their rate as closely as I could, and found the following:
a- The first spring was 19-1/8 long and had a rate of 2.52 lb/inch
b- The second spring was 19-5/8 long and had a rate of 2.48 lb/inch

Since the first one was a little stronger but a little shorter, I don't think that it made much difference.

QUESTION: Do you know where I can find what the spring specs are?

Thanks!

Alex

 

[NEtracker]

I do not have the spring specs, but go here for a post on lanes tips..

http://www.jouster.com/lanestips/opspring.html

 

[Nando Aqui]

NEtracker:

Thanks for the tip - they specify a spring length of 19" to 20-1/2", which makes mine, at 19-5/8", just fine. Now, if I could just find the spring rate...

By the way, they also advise against too-strong of a spring.

Alex

 

[standingbear]

clip latch-that lil piece of steel in the bottom that locks the clip in.could be letting the clip pop up just nuff while the bolt rides over it and pops it back down.depending on the recoil,itll allow the entire clip full of rounds to go shooting up,out of the mechanism and bonk you in the head.wish i still had my garand.

 

[Grampa]

Alex -- update

I finally had a sunny day that wasn't consumed by "Honey do's", so took the afternoon off and tried the slightly more potent loads. I bumped my handloads from 47.5 to 48 grains of IMR 4895. That did help somewhat, but didn't cure it. Now I'm getting an average of one missfeed per clip, rather than 2 or 3. I'll load some up at 48.5 gr. and see if that does the trick.

I thought I had found some surplus ammo, but it was corrosive primer stuff, so passed.

I broke the rifle down and inspected all the bearing surfaces. Nothing looked as if it were wearing abnormally or rubbing where it shouldn't. I think it's just too "new" and needs to be shot. I can handle that!

 

[AZ Jeff]

Here are a couple of things to check:

1. gas piston and cylinder specs, straight from the military field manuals
Op Rod Piston - Minimum Diameter Specification = 0.5253" (No Go @ 0.525")
Maximum Out of Roundness Specification = 0.00035"
Gas Cylinder - Maximum Diameter Specification (main part of cyl.) = 0.530" (field reject @ 0.532")
Surfaces must be smooth & unscored.

2. operating rod springs are NOTORIOUS for weakening with age on an M1. I would recommend you invest $5 in a new one from the following sources: Orion 7, Fulton Armory. To quote Gus Fisher, an old time military armorer from the "CSP Gun Talk" forum:

" First of all, the spring should be 19 inches in length up to about 20 1/2 inches at most. I strongly recommend AGAINST those "extra power" springs that run from 21 to 23 inches. (They cause more cycling problems than they fix.) The next thing you want to look for is if the spring is seriously kinked. I have seen some springs that have "set" in position from years of storage and have some bend in them. Many are fine, but I would recommend replacing them. The next thing is to look for worn flat areas on the outer diameter of the spring loops. Again, I recommend replacing any spring that has flat spots on it. It is normal for the finish to wear off these loops from rubbing, but flat spots will cause the spring to crack or break....Anyway, since good springs are fairly cheap, it is very easy and economical to change them BEFORE THEY WEAR OUT AND DO SERIOUS DAMAGE TO YOUR RIFLE. "

 

[jem375]

I had the same problem of ejecting the clip before I had fired all the rounds out of it...........replaced the clip latch and clip latch spring....it's usually the spring that causes the clip ejection problems...........easy to do..

 

[RustyHammer]

As mentioned above, Battlerifles.com is another great site -- especially for Garands and the like.

Here is a thread that is on topic:

http://www.battlerifles.com/viewtopic.php?t=17579&highlight=7th+round

 

[dude]

you have a weak op-rod spring......score yourself a new one and enjoy!

 

[Grampa]

Update -- FIXED!

I took the advice to replace the op rod spring, and ordered one from Fulton Armory. I was a bit surprised that it was actually a little shorter than the one that was in the rifle. But, I just fired four clips through the Garand, and not a single problem. And these were my lighter loads.

YES!

 

[clint1911a1]

I'm glad to here changing out your op-rod spring helped out. My wife gave me a Garand for Christmas a couple of years back that had the same problems. I fixed the failure to feed by changing the same spring. It also had the same premature ejection problem. I ordered a new clip catch and special "heavy duty" clip catch spring from Fulton Armory and experienced no more malfs.

Happy shootin' with your great peice of American history!