My response to a fence-sitter...

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Drjones

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As some of you may know, I'm taking an online english class this summer. (Which is over this week!!! WOOHOO!!!)

My last essay is on firearms. (Who woulda thunkit???) This one girl told me that she didn't really like guns. I asked her why, and here is the email I got from her:


I totally dislike firearms because I have never known anyone to use them
responsibly. My cousin's wife and baby were killed by an extremely depressed man by a 45 magnum. Other than that, I know nothing about guns or really any other weapons. I would be happy to read your paper and hear any other informative insight you have on the subject. I promise I am not some idiot who judges everything by one experience, so I would be totally stoked to hear why firearms or any other thing I might have a negative conotation of would be resourceful. I am just a 21 year old girl who doesn't want to see her loved ones hurt anymore. Thanks for asking. I really appreciate it.
~Lisa

********
Here is my response to her:

Lisa:

Thank you for the response. I am so very sorry to hear of the tragedy that befell you. I cannot imagine what that must have been like for you.

Of course I do not think you are an idiot, and the fact that you are open to discussion about this issue and that you understand that you are basing your feelings on only one incident shows your intelligence.

Lisa, the first thing you need to understand is that a firearm did not kill your relatives; a man did. I’m sure you have heard the oft-repeated line “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.†It is true. Guns do not go off by themselves. They do not kill people by themselves. They most certainly do not make people want to kill other people. They are just an inanimate object, neither good nor bad.

Let me ask you a question, and try to put your emotions aside and think about it rationally and logically; if your relatives had instead been killed with a knife, would you hate knives today? If they had been killed in a car accident, would you hate cars and refuse to drive anywhere? Ascribing blame to the object just doesn’t make sense, it is wrong and you are cheating yourself because the blame lies with the individual who committed the act. If a person gets drunk, gets into a car and kills someone, neither the alcohol nor the car are to blame; the person who made the bad choices is to blame. HE made the decision to drink, HE made the decision to drive, HE is responsible for the consequences of his actions. HE drank the alcohol, HE drove the car, HE killed the people.

A man made a decision to kill your relatives. He happened to choose a firearm, but could just as easily have drowned them, stabbed them, or used any other object with which to do what he wanted. People must be held responsible for their actions, and that man killed your relatives, not the gun.

You must understand that.

Lisa, has it ever occurred to you that had your relative owned a firearm herself and been trained in its use, that she perhaps could have defended her life and that of her child? Your cousin’s wife could quite possibly have used a firearm for GOOD; to defend her life and that of her child. Just as a man unfortunately used a firearm for evil, she could have used one for good.

Lisa, you must understand that firearms are neither good nor bad. They just are. Criminals use cars to help them escape from the scene of a crime, yet no one ascribes any blame nor evil characteristics to cars. Cars also kill a lot of people each year, in fact far more than guns. Still, no one hates cars.

Cars do not cause people to do bad things, just as firearms do not cause people to do bad things. All objects can be used for either good or bad means. Just as a car can be used to kill someone or to escape from the scene of a crime, a car can also rush a loved one to the hospital to save their life.

Just as a firearm can be used for murder, it can be used to defend your life and those of your loved ones.

Lisa, I’d like to add that I own several firearms; four pistols and a shotgun. None of my firearms have ever been used to commit any crime, nor have they ever killed anyone. I am responsible with my firearms and I have many, many friends who own firearms and are responsible with them. That is because we are good, honest, law-abiding people. As such, and by definition, we do not commit crimes; not with cars or knives, and most definitely not with our firearms.

This may surprise you; there are approximately 300 million firearms owned by civilians in the United States. That is almost one for every man, woman, and child. There are approximately 80 million firearm owners in the United States. Yet each year, there are less than 10,000 murders with firearms every year.

In other words, there are 79,990,000 responsible, law-abiding firearms owners in this country. You said that you don’t know anyone who uses firearms responsibly, well how’s that for responsible firearms use and ownership? Approximately 80 million people! Chances are you know several people who own and use firearms responsibly. It could be your doctor, teacher, neighbor, or friends. And me too!

I think that is enough out of me for now. Please follow the following link: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27373&highlight=Anti

It is a link to a firearms discussion forum that I frequent. Everyone on that forum is a responsible, law-abiding gun owner, and there are many intelligent and knowledgeable people on it as well. The specific thread linked above was started by a person like you, who saw firearms as having no constructive value. We showed him otherwise. We showed him how firearms in the hands of responsible, law-abiding citizens have many constructive uses, and are in fact a critical part of our society and our world.

You may also find this interesting: http://www.rkba.org/comment/cowards.html (You may want to print it out for easier reading.)

Lisa, have you ever shot a firearm? As I said, I own several and would be more than happy to take you shooting if you wish, of course at no cost to you. Just show up, and I’ll take care of the rest. I’m fairly proficient with my firearms and of course will instruct you about firearms safety and proper shooting technique. It is difficult to fully understand something without having experienced it, and if you haven’t yet, you owe it to yourself to try shooting. It is a lot of fun, millions of people enjoy it, and you could be one of them!

Oh, and I own some other weapons and have an interest in them, since you mentioned it. I’d be thrilled to share those with you as well!
Lastly Lisa, I’d like to thank you for this opportunity to inform you. I hope you have found this message informative, and I am eager to talk with you further on this if you so desire.



Warm regards,
Me
 
Thanks all for your kind words.

I thought I did a good job of being very polite and non-aggressive, something which I've been working on.

Since its an online class and we only met once, I have no clue what she looks like. There was this really hot girl in there, but I think she had a boyfriend. (She was picked up by a guy after the first session.)

It would be cool if that were her.

Anyway, of course I'll keep you updated. If you like, I'll post her reply when I get it.


Cheers,
Drjones
 
nice, but can i offer some constructive criticism? not really criticism, just a clarification. the numbers we use, 80,000,000+ estimated gun owners, i've always used that as the number of lawful gunowners. there are probably millions more that are unlawfully owning (read stolen) guns, and are likely responsible for most of those 10,000 murders.
for example, consider the number killed that the antis say are 'children' (read 14-18 yr olds) whom we know to include gangbangers. arent they often killed by other gangbangers who are not old enough to own a gun according to existing laws?
so what i'm trying to say, is that it is my OPINION that the majority of those 10,000 murders, were commited by criminals, outside of our ranks of 80,000,000.

one figure i came up with at the michael moore forums was to figure out the exact number/ratio of accidental deaths from firearms vs. our 80,000,000.
the figure i used was from the national vital statistics report, of 1,006 accidental deaths. (btw, this number represented .041% of all deaths in the USA for that year, 2000).
i came up with one accidental/negligent death per 79,522.86 firearm owners in this country

now i'm on a numbers kick, so bear with me...
suicides: one death per 4,823.34 firearm owners
homicides: one death per 7,406.72 firearm owners
for the year 2000, firearm deaths represented 1.15% of all deaths in this country.
compare that to:
0.819% of deaths in 2000 were from drugs.
0.805% of deaths in 2000 were from alcohol.
1.803% of deaths in 2000 were from vehicles.
4.073% of deaths in 2000 were from all accidents.
75.56% of deaths in 2000 were from the top medical-related deaths, which include HIV, malignant neoplasm’s, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, heart disease, cerebrovascular diseases, influenza, lower respiratory diseases, liver diseases, nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, nephrosis, and numbered 1,815,974.

makes you wonder how that 1.15% becomes an 'epidemic' or, 'leading cause'...
 
Dr.Jones-
Great job. See if she would be willing to come out to our THR get-together this weekend. It would be a great way for her to be in touch some of the great people that make THR fabulous. Most of all it will give her an oppurtunity to learn about something we are all passionate about.

Cyah soon!

45R
 
45R... I think someones first exposure to guns should be on an individual basis with an experienced shoooter, not a big gun meet :)

I think a whole lot of people carrying guns around and shooting and shooting the sh!# would be a little overwhelming for someone's first time.

What do you think?
 
While I can see your point, she said in her email to me (quoted in my initial post) that she has "never known anyone to use them
responsibly."

So to the contrary; if she saw a bunch of incredibly friendly, "normal" people (i.e.; not some drunk rednecks or mall ninja types) being very safe and responsible with their firearms, and at the same time deriving immense enjoyment from them and being very eager to share their firearms and teach newbies, I think that would probably be the most positive thing imaginable.

She sounds like the type who would handle such a situation well.
 
"There are approximately 80 million firearm owners in the United States. Yet each year, there are less than 10,000 murders with firearms every year.

In other words, there are 79,990,000 responsible, law-abiding firearms owners in this country."

Just to be annoying;)...what about next year's 10,000 murders? Will they all be committed by the same 10,000 that murdered this year? What about every other year? So there aren't 79,990,000 responsible firearm owners in this country, unless, of course, we consider criminals who commit murders outside of that 80 million. But let's say we don't. Let's say every one of those yearly 10,000 murders is committed by a different one of those 80 million legal firearm owners. Let's say the average lifespan is 70 years. That would mean that in 70 years, 70,000 of those legal firearm owners will have committed a murder using a gun. So what you should really have said, is that there are 79,930,000, law-abiding firearms owners in this country.

Thus, your whole argument is invalid and we are just a dangerous bunch of temporarily law-abiding firearm owners just waiting to fill that 10,000 yearly murderer quota. :p
 
That's a great reply. You gave the facts and your views without becoming passionate or jumping down her throat.

Great job.

Wes
 
Joker, go back to your stats prof, and slap 'em...

Most violent crime in this country is committed by a very small number of people, most of whom are either not caught, or who are caught and released in a relatively short time.
 
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