My story...... guidance, comments please?

[Palladan44]

I've decided to get both of my current AR and AK pistols "NFA'd".....or whatever the slang term is. "Form one'd" is it?
In no way do I want to dispose of the 2 expensive SB tactical braces I've already purchased. Since the tax stamps for these are said to be free, I have no real complaints here.

I have an additional AR-15 lower that has been laying around that I purchased, and have yet to do anything with it, it's still sitting in the box. It came furnished with with an M4 sized buffer tube staked on with an M4 style buttstock. I'd like the ability to "SBR" this one while I'm on this subject. When I purchased this lower, I'm not sure what this particular "lower" receiver is considered..... A "rifle" or "Other" ?????????????
Can someone clarify this?


Is the ATF forms and procedures for the above 3 mentioned items going to be the same, and are all 3 tax stamps going to be free, or is the 3rd weapon mentioned (the AR lower) going to be slightly different, and include a 200$ fee for the stamp?????????????????????

I siezed this opportunity for a one-stop-shop---While I was at my gun guy's shop today, I purchased and paid for a silencer. I used a Kiosk from SilencerShop. Got my fingerprints done, paid about 900$ (w/stamp) for a beautiful big Ole suppressor for my CMMG Banshee and Glock 20 10 mms. I'll look forward to it in about 9 months.

I'd like to take care of all 4 of these items NFA procedures as quickly and easily as possible.

I added multiple question marks?????? after my questions so they can be easily gone back and referred to.

Much appreciated THR.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

What did the dealer mark on the 4473 you filled out?
if they marked receiver in section A block 4
and selected Other in section C block 24 it is for all intents and purpose a Other


P.S.
the Blocks and reference are from the newest version of the 4473 they may change if you /they filled out the previous version form 4473 but the information is EXACTLY the same

PSS... sorry should have answered all the forbearance is covering those items with a pistol brace owned prior to Jan 31. Otherwise it's $200.00

 

[N555]

See if that AR lower will be sold to you as a "rifle", "pistol" or "firearm".
Since it came with an m4 tube it might be a "rifle".

 

[Palladan44]

I'll see if I can find the paperwork on that one.

 

[dogtown tom]

I've decided to get both of my current AR and AK pistols "NFA'd".....or whatever the slang term is. "Form one'd" is it?
In no way do I want to dispose of the 2 expensive SB tactical braces I've already purchased. Since the tax stamps for these are said to be free, I have no real complaints here.

I have an additional AR-15 lower that has been laying around that I purchased, and have yet to do anything with it, it's still sitting in the box. It came furnished with with an M4 sized buffer tube staked on with an M4 style buttstock. I'd like the ability to "SBR" this one while I'm on this subject. When I purchased this lower, I'm not sure what this particular "lower" receiver is considered..... A "rifle" or "Other" ?????????????
Can someone clarify this?

Only pistols with a stabilizing brace that you possessed prior to 1/31/23 are eligible for the free tax stamp during the forbearance period.

Is the ATF forms and procedures for the above 3 mentioned items going to be the same, and are all 3 tax stamps going to be free, or is the 3rd weapon mentioned (the AR lower) going to be slightly different, and include a 200$ fee for the stamp?????????????????????

Two you'll file using the special eForm 1, the other will be the normal eForm 1 with $200 tax.

 

[dogtown tom]

See if that AR lower will be sold to you as a "rifle", "pistol" or "firearm".
Since it came with an m4 tube it might be a "rifle".

What the dealer noted on the 4473 doesn't change what the firearm is.
A frame or receiver is listed as "other"
A frame or receiver is absolutely not a pistol or rifle until completed as such.

Any dealer who records a lower w/shoulder stock as a rifle needs to read his regs....that ain't a rifle as defined by ATF.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

EXACTLY true Dogtown.

What the dealer noted on the 4473 doesn't change what the firearm is.
A frame or receiver is listed as "other"
A frame or receiver is absolutely not a pistol or rifle until completed as such.

Any dealer who records a lower w/shoulder stock as a rifle needs to read his regs....that ain't a rifle as defined by ATF.

AND I see that this thread could head to a direction that it should not.
Like you stated which I attempted to, I guess not as well as your response is that the forbearance of the tax stamp is only for those pistols affected on / prior than the jan31st date not after.

 

[Palladan44]

I'll see if I can find the paperwork on that one.

Couldn't locate the paperwork on it.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

LOL, you wont have a copy dealer/FFL retains the only copy for 20 years after which time can be destroyed upon the dealers discretion now that is for paper . (the bound books are forever however and again ONLY maintained by the Dealer/FFL)

Copies was never made Until certain conditions are met for one example a gun trace in the commission of a crime is conducted which ATF sent a notification of. OR if a customer needed proof of ownership in a gun recovery for the local PD to return the firearm.

Digital 4473 are different before I FULLY retired everything I only did was paper, never handled Digital 4473 Dogtown MIGHT be able to pipe in here. And I only used a PAPER Bound Book /4473's never did computer versions as I felt they was too risky.

 

[dogtown tom]

LOL, you wont have a copy dealer/FFL retains the only copy for 20 years after which time can be destroyed upon the dealers discretion now that is for paper .

Not any more. Now we have to keep them until we go out of business.
ATF regulations changed last summer.
§ 478.129 Record retention.
(b) Firearms Transaction Record. Licensees shall retain each Form 4473 until business or licensed activity is discontinued, either on paper, or in an electronic alternate method approved by the Director, at the business premises readily accessible for inspection under this part. Paper forms over 20 years of age may be stored at a separate warehouse, which shall be considered part of the business premises for this purpose and subject to inspection under this part. Forms 4473 shall be retained in the licensee's records as provided in § 478.124(b), provided that Forms 4473 with respect to which a sale, delivery, or transfer did not take place shall be separately retained in alphabetical (by name of transferee) or chronological (by date of transferee's certification) order.

And typical ATF still hasn't updated their FAQ's to reflect this change.

 

[N555]

What the dealer noted on the 4473 doesn't change what the firearm is.
A frame or receiver is listed as "other"
A frame or receiver is absolutely not a pistol or rifle until completed as such.

Any dealer who records a lower w/shoulder stock as a rifle needs to read his regs....that ain't a rifle as defined by ATF.

That's what I would do and makes the most sense.
Just in case it left the factory as a rife (op didn't say if it was new receiver, it had been laying around the gun shop for a while) as long as it says "firearm" when he bough it he can proven he is not just trying to turn a rifle into a pistol and all that drama that goes along with that.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

Not any more. Now we have to keep them until we go out of business.
ATF regulations changed last summer.
§ 478.129 Record retention.
(b) Firearms Transaction Record. Licensees shall retain each Form 4473 until business or licensed activity is discontinued, either on paper, or in an electronic alternate method approved by the Director, at the business premises readily accessible for inspection under this part. Paper forms over 20 years of age may be stored at a separate warehouse, which shall be considered part of the business premises for this purpose and subject to inspection under this part. Forms 4473 shall be retained in the licensee's records as provided in § 478.124(b), provided that Forms 4473 with respect to which a sale, delivery, or transfer did not take place shall be separately retained in alphabetical (by name of transferee) or chronological (by date of transferee's certification) order.

And typical ATF still hasn't updated their FAQ's to reflect this change.

WELLLLLL dang it I leave the business and they Change .... Those INDIVIDUALS. (BTW before posting I did check the FAQ in case of a change which causes the bad information)
Thank you Dogtown so much for correcting me on that. Good to know. Now we could really muddle this by explaining the bound books requirement of title 1 and title 2 firearms and how they are separate as well as WHY 4473 are used to show that the NFA item is now possessed by the tax stamp owner. yeah I know sorry bad humor on the last part.

 

[Palladan44]

It's a new receiver, and I bought it directly from the manufacturer from their in-house storefront. If I got to pay a 200$ tax stamp for it, I'm fine with it.
It doesn't and never has had a pistol brace on it, and my understanding of the rule is it had to have a brace mounted on it, and have been purchased before 1/31/23 in order to qualify. In this case, it doesn't matter what it was purchased as if I pay the 200$ and do the normal eForm 1.
If I can get the stamp for free I'd like to, but it sounds like thats a no for the moment.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

outstanding reply, and YES to my outdated knowledge by 5 years (haha) if you pay the Tax stamp all this is a moot point and good to go

 

[Palladan44]

Do you guys recommend-
I do the paperwork for all my 4 NFA items through my account with Silencershop, or just go to ATF website?

Guy at the shop today said I have to wait until I get a "certification" email within 3-4 days or so of today, then come back in to the shop to finish up stuff (for the silencer)
Hopefully I can get the stuff going for the other 3 NFA items at that same time...??

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

OK now there will be multiple bit of advice so PERSONALLY ONLY because I'm a cheap skate.
Bear in mind I'm assuming that you are doing as a individual not a trust

've decided to get both of my current AR and AK pistols "NFA'd".....or whatever the slang term is. "Form one'd" is it?
In no way do I want to dispose of the 2 expensive SB tactical braces I've already purchased. Since the tax stamps for these are said to be free, I have no real complaints here.

I have an additional AR-15 lower that has been laying around that I purchased, and have yet to do anything with it, it's still sitting in the box. It came furnished with with an M4 sized buffer tube staked on with an M4 style buttstock. I'd like the ability to "SBR" this one while I'm on this subject.

Personally ???
Provided I Have digital fingerprints (.eft format) and passport photos on a thumb drive. I would register on ATF eforms and do a form one ( application to Make a NFA item ) for each of these. The pistols I would use the Pistol brace entry portal to enter and input my data. On the other receiver I would go to the regular eform login site not the button for the pistol brace and pay the tax stamp. These should process faster than the Form 4 Suppressor (Form 4 is for a already made NFA Item as a rule, a attempt to dummy down the forms). Now IF you wanted to HAVE the tax stamp affixed that you paid for to your Form 1 that is not covered by the pistol brace rule you could do a paper entry which means hard copy of FD258 and passport photos. That is up to you .

BUT bear in MIND the others covered under pistol brace rule WILL NOT have a tax stamp only because you didn't pay the tax. Those I would efile those for sure. as it will make no difference

siezed this opportunity for a one-stop-shop---While I was at my gun guy's shop today, I purchased and paid for a silencer. I used a Kiosk from SilencerShop. Got my fingerprints done,

Yep I personally would use them as you can't deviate from using them and be prepared for a long wait, form 4's take longer than a Form 1. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do to speed this up, Only create a delay if try to speed it up.

 

[Palladan44]

OK now there will be multiple bit of advice so PERSONALLY ONLY because I'm a cheap skate.
Bear in mind I'm assuming that you are doing as a individual not a trust



Personally ???
Provided I Have digital fingerprints (.eft format) and passport photos on a thumb drive. I would register on ATF eforms and do a form one ( application to Make a NFA item ) for each of these. The pistols I would use the Pistol brace entry portal to enter and input my data. On the other receiver I would go to the regular eform login site not the button for the pistol brace and pay the tax stamp. These should process faster than the Form 4 Suppressor (Form 4 is for a already made NFA Item as a rule, a attempt to dummy down the forms). Now IF you wanted to HAVE the tax stamp affixed that you paid for to your Form 1 that is not covered by the pistol brace rule you could do a paper entry which means hard copy of FD258 and passport photos. That is up to you .

BUT bear in MIND the others covered under pistol brace rule WILL NOT have a tax stamp only because you didn't pay the tax. Those I would efile those for sure. as it will make no difference



Yep I personally would use them as you can't deviate from using them and be prepared for a long wait, form 4's take longer than a Form 1. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do to speed this up, Only create a delay if try to speed it up.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Palladan44]

Thanks for the tips.

He took my photo and fingerprints at the Kiosk yesterday. So I'll do all the forms at the same time via that system, I think.

 

[Palladan44]

Was told the suppressor approval will take around 9 months. And the other form 1's around 30-45 days.

 

[Sgt_Mike1]

my last two form 4 (paper input, as efile Form 4 was not a option) cans took 18 months, so sounds about right a estimate of 9 months.