MythBuster: Dirty Harry Did NOT Carry .44 Magnum!

[StrikeEagle]

Yeah, But...

Of course the real definition of "special load" is open for speculation.

Not sure why the term "special load" is in quotes... what he SAID was "light special."

If I'm at the range with a 29 and tell you I'm shooting a "light special" for reasons of "recoil" and "control" and I compare it to "a .357 magnum loaded with wadcutters" what could I mean other than .44 Special?

Anyway, this was something I've wanted to get off my chest since the movie came out.

bestest,
StrikeEagle

ps The original question was posted in a general spirit of fun of course, and I thank you all for your responses.

 

[c_yeager]

I read in a magazine, (many years before the internet) they they simply couldn't find a 6 1/2" 29 when they started filming, so used the 57 in the begining. The person making the statement was involved with the filming, and was a gun person. I don't recall where I read it. I believe it was around 20 years ago that I read it.

Can you honestly say that this makes any sense at all to you? We are talking about a big-studio holywood movie that HEAVILY features a very specific firearm that is named in the film. Can you possibly imagine that Smith & Wesson would NOT have multiple perfect examples of that very firearm delivered right to the studio door? Even if they were hard to locate for the gun community, there is no such thing as a firearm that is unobtainable by hollywood.

29s were hard to find after the movie was released simply because the movie itself spurred their popularity so much. As has ben mentioned before, they werent all that hard to find prior to being popularized.

 

[17RemFan]

Wouldnt it be neat if Clint Eastwood would stop in here to field a few questions about all this?

 

[Checkman]

According to Roy Jinks, Smith and Wesson's historian, Warner Brothers was having trouble locating any specimens of the M29. So the factory assembled the M29's from spare parts in the factory shop. That shop is now called the Custom Shop. John Milius had originally written the M29 as having a 4" barrel, but all that was on hand at the time was barrels with the 6.5" length. And that is the story behind the Dirty Harry Model 29. Now Mr. Jinks has worked for S&W for many years and I trust his information. Everyone else will have to decide for themselves.

 

[Onmilo]

I too have heard that two Model 29 revolvers were custom built for the movie and Clint Eastwood actually fired nothing heavier than 5 in 1 blanks in the guns,,,,,The recoil, gunshot sound, and impact force were all special effects and implied.

 

[Boss Spearman]

Not to nitpick, but in real life John Wayne got out of going to the military, so he never really got shot at. This from Richard Boone's biography:

Boone was a college student, boxer, painter and oil-field labourer before ending up in the U.S. Navy during World War II. After the war, he used the G.I. Bill to study acting with the Actor's Studio in New York.

Yes, Paladin is cooler than John Wayne in my book too.

As is any other tough guy actor who actually served.

 

[Nathanael_Greene]

Not to hijack the thread, but did Clint Eastwood ever serve in the military?

I know he *played* a sailor in one of the "Francis the Talking Mule" movies...

 

[Bacon]

Clint Eastwood was in the ARMY.

 

[BluesBear]

Yeah, yeah, I should have typed "Light Special" instead of "Special Load". So sue me for posting so late at night.
At least I dug out the DVD and quoted the dialogue verbatum.

My point was that who ever talks about wadcutters in a .357 magnum unless they're talking about light paper punching loads?
And anyone using duty ammo that light is either a fool or just doesn't know spit from Shinola about guns and ammunition.

So did Harry mean he was shooting light .44 Special ammo or did he mean he was shooting light, special, .44 magnum ammo?

In reality a light, special, .44 magnum load could be something as simple as the Winchester Super-X 200gr Silvertip. Or it could have been a lighter than normal, special handload? Back in the day I knew many cops (who had to provide their own ammo) who loaded .357s, .41s and .44s down to a more controlable level.

One could even argue that my old issue duty ammo, which was the Remington 210 Lead SWC .41 magnum, was a lighter, special loading for the .41 Magnum. It sure was easier to shoot rapidly than the heavier, standard 210gr JSP stuff. (And a 210gr chuck of lead moving at 900-1000fps ain't exactly a gnat sneeze.)

Clint Eastwood actually fired nothing heavier than 5 in 1 blanks in the guns

Well a 5-in-1™ won't fit in a .44 magnum. It was designed to fit in the hodge podge of Cowboy guns used in western movies. That way the props department only had to worry about one type of catridge. They will only work in .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt revolvers and rifles. But it's no problem to produce blanks for any revolver.
And the 5-in-1™ was also designed so they would NOT have to dub in the gunshots. They were loud enough for most thratrical uses.


Now I was told, that in some of the TV westerns, which had smaller budgets, .22 blanks were often used. They made special cylinders for the revolvers that had an offset .22 chamber in the rear of the cylinder but still had a full sized bore in the front half. These was also made of aluminium to cut down on the weight. It seems some TV actors were real wusses when it came to lugging those big heavy guns on their hip 14 hours a day.
I know, for a fact, that's what they used in "The Virginian". I don't exactly know what other shows did that since I didn't have a relative starring in any of them.

 

[Boss Spearman]

Richard Boone hated horses and used a double as often as he could for long shots of him on the horse.

 

[Cosmoline]

I say again, someone with the DVD simply needs to post a few screen captures (HINT HINT HINT) and we can resolve this debate once and for all. Unless you don't think the learned eyes here can tell the difference between a Model 29 and a Model 57

 

[BluesBear]

Unless you don't think the learned eyes here can tell the difference between a Model 29 and a Model 57

I have the Dirty Harry boxed set but they're already packed and sealed away for the movers on Monday.
After I get settled I'll attempt some screen shots.

Of course the learned eyes will confirm that it's a Model 29 but the rest will still argue the point.

 

[45crittergitter]

Uh huh, you're gonna try to find that 0.02" on your TV screen with a caliper I guess......

 

[Cosmoline]

There are other ways to tell them apart. For one thing the writing on the side of the barrel. Plus, the 29 has a higher grade of finish.

 

[BluesBear]

Well the finish on the 57 was exactly the same as the 29. But the 29 had a ½" longer barrel at that time.

Plus you really can tell the difference by looking at the front of the cylinder. There is noticably more steel around the charge holes of a Model 57 cylinder than there is on a Model 29.

Same with the muzzle. Both models are the same diameter at the muzzle.
If you're like me and own both guns you really do develop an eye for the difference.

However all I intend to do is capture some frames and post them. Then I'm going to sit back and let everyone else bicker about it because I already know what guns were and were not used in the movies.



Also Harry used Dade speedloaders. In fact all of the speedloaders in Magnum Force were made by Dade. As far as I know Dade didn't make a .41 magnum loader.
However I am not 100% sure of this.

I have owned several Dade loaders in my lifetime in both .357 and .44. But I have never seen a Dade loader in .41 Magnum. They were never listed in my dealer lists and I have never known of anyone having any.
In 1978 I became a Dade dealer. (I really like the Dade pouches and wish I could find a few) Although that was toward the end of the Dade company. Perhaps they did make them in the early or mid 70s.

If anyone out there happens to have any .41 magnum Dade loaders then I shall stand corrected and I'd love to buy them for my collection.
I do own two of the elusive Safariland .41 magnum loaders.
A couple of Dades, if they exist, would look mightly good sitting next to them.

 

[MillCreek]

And for all this time, I thought the old saying 'doesn't know s*it from Shinola' was a good old Southern saying without any real factual basis. I now know better. Shinola shoe polish. Who'd a thunk it?

I learn something new everyday on THR, and this is today's tidbit.

 

[BluesBear]

In our house we used Shinola and Kiwi.

Shinola smelled better. It had a sweet fruit smell as opposed to the Kiwi burnt nut smell.

I think Shinola went out of business in the late 50s or early 60s.

 

[Joejojoba111]

#1 "What type of load do you use in that .44?" he says "It's a light special. This size of gun it gives me better control and less recoil than a .357 with wadcutters."


#2 c yeager "Can you honestly say that this makes any sense at all to you? We are talking about a big-studio holywood movie that HEAVILY features a very specific firearm that is named in the film. Can you possibly imagine that Smith & Wesson would NOT have multiple perfect examples of that very firearm delivered right to the studio door?"

In the 1970's Hollywood was turned on it's head. Something to do with the demise of the studio system and also losing control of theaters (distribution oligopoly) and rise of television meant that there was a good deal of freedom to experiment in movies, and very little money. In the studio system trusted directors were given a fair bit of leeway, but nowhere near the 1970's the 'end was nigh', desperate times called for desperate measures. So it's completely possible that they couldn't get the right revolver, at first. Hell, know Easy Rider? Big famous movie ... they did it on shoestring budget and the bikes were stolen at the end of the movie! Lol.

Malamute "I read in a magazine, (many years before the internet) they they simply couldn't find a 6 1/2" 29 when they started filming, so used the 57 in the begining. The person making the statement was involved with the filming, and was a gun person. I don't recall where I read it. I believe it was around 20 years ago that I read it."

This could be real, I don't see why not. The beginning of a movie, one can almost guarantee, is not shot on the first day of filming! Who the hell knows where they starting filming, I don't.


#3- All the guys shoot lead semi-wadcutters, and not just for target practice. Davis uses them in his revolver at the competition, and Harry has them in speed loaders when the Lieutenand disarms him.

 

[Igloodude]

"It's a light special. In this size gun it gives me better control and less recoil than a .357 magnum loaded with wadcutters."

Now all this really illustrates it that neither the script writer nor Clint Eastwood knew sPit from Shinola™ about real handgun ammunition.

and then...

One of the original guns was presented to screenwriter John Milius, who is now on the NRA board of directors.

So do we have someone on the NRA BoD that doesn't know sPit from Shinola™ about real handgun ammunition?

 

[Joejojoba111]

"One of the original guns was presented to screenwriter John Milius, who is now on the NRA board of directors."

To be picky, he wasn't presented it, he was PAID with it, as part of his salary.

 

[RAD]

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

 

[c_yeager]

Hell, know Easy Rider? Big famous movie ... they did it on shoestring budget and the bikes were stolen at the end of the movie! Lol.

True, but they sure as heck werent Hondas now were they?

 

[Onmilo]

I did say five in one blanks didn't I?!

Oh well, you did understand what I was implying,,,didn't you??

 

[Brian Williams]

I thought I remember that Clint "Dirty Harry" Eastwood stated in an interview that he practiced with a 29 and real 44 mags to make sure he had the recoil right whenever he shot it on screen.

Didn't they wreck the bikes at the end of Easy Rider????

 

[BerettaNut92]

My Beretta 92G (with carbon fiber grips) can blow your head...cleaaan off....