Navy Speedster Doubles Up On Cutting-Edge Technology

[Old NFO]

Actually, I think the Coast Guard is more interested in a relatively large ship that can go fast. The platform is more important than the loadout.

You are correct Delayed Reaction, and Sea Fox is unarmored- She will have minimal required for ship protection in a bit, but nothing now...

Kharn, they are looking at them for defensive purposes- Think add on to CIWS

280Plus- That's a LOT of payback for one little Captains Mast

 

[280PLUS]

How'd you know about that? Was it only one? I can't quite remember anymore...



Actually the XO I speak of saved me from one, we had a loooong talk one day. We came to an agreement. He remembered me when I emailed him too...

 

[pete f]

The initial response i had to the pic was that it was a reinvestigatoni of http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=11028 The Lockheed Sea Shadow. This smalll ship is now back in service being used to investigate new propulusion systems, or so they say.

The shape of ships today has to be view in the light of pretty is as pretty does. The old "classic" DD and BB shape were designed to be able to present the most efficient gun playform for the intended use. Now howver with every go fast boat having Radar that can detect a DD at many miles, the need for a boat to have stealth features is critical.

The less stuff out in the air also means the less stuff to get exposed to salt spray, wind and water damage and improves radar cross section. Some of the current testing being done is for retractable or flush fitting turrets, of course the use of box loaded missle launchers.

As for crew size, This is not to be compared to a FFG or DD but rather a look at it as a Coast Guard 170 or 210, both of which carry somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty people to forty people. this is the size of the crew that works on a ship this size. As for DC, ships this size a major hit is going to end it. smaller weapons hits. well there just is not that much critical structure there to hit. some of these basic designs have been in use for many years as highspeeds ferries. some of these have sufered collisons and some have been targets of terror attacks and they hae faired reasonably well. The natural shape of pod type cat hull is not a planning hull but rather a new form of a surface piercing hull. The spaces it encloses are very easy to compartmentlize and the web or cross beam spaces are also easy to watertight and allow it to float hull down in
extreme cases.

 

[280PLUS]

Yea but can we squeeze a 16 incher on one of those? I can see it nestling down between those hulls quite nicely...

First shot would probably sink it.

 

[Old NFO]

Actually the XO I speak of saved me from one, we had a loooong talk one day. We came to an agreement. He remembered me when I emailed him too...

hehehe- Been there, done that... I had to re-enlist to get outta one

You're right Pete! Also, the SWATH hulls are extremely stable up to about a SS4, then things get interesting There is considerably less roll, and also less pitch due to the penetrating aspect of the hull shapes.

Actually we still have one laying around 280Plus Trust me, it's not EVEN being considered

 

[280PLUS]

Trust me, it's not EVEN being considered

280 sad...

 

[pete f]

re SS4 i rode a finnish ferry of a similar design accross the baltic in 02 and it was running 20 foot seas, with windspeeds in excess of 35 knots.

http://www7.stenaline.com/servlet/s...4&data.language.id=11&data.document.id=13854

The ferry rode amazingly smoothly at about 40 knots. The beam is 40 meters, about 130 feet, LOA is 127 meters, about 400 feet and is rated for safe passage with paying customers in SS7 for seas in excess of 8 meters, so call it 25 foot seas. There are newer versions running in the med that are listed at 50 knots. With this type of speed and the range that comes from such reduced drag, out running storms becomes much more reasonable. sitting in a weather pattern that exceeds SS8 to above, or the tropical storm to hurricane nowadays is just not necessary

 

[Dr.Who]

It looks like the stealth ship use in one of the 007 flicks with Pierce Brosnan.

 

[Preacherman]

Pete_f, I edited your post to fix the link - works now.

I think the point of these ships is that they are very effective, but also very expendable. One hit with a major warhead such as Exocet, Silkworm, or the (much larger) modern Russian missiles, would effectively destroy this ship - so why bother with large crews and hardened structure? If there are a lot of these swanning around, I guess the top brass would simply figure on losing a certain percentage. Not so nice for the crews on board...

I suspect their main protection will be in their Stealth features, plus some point defence, and possibly longer-range defence by adding SM2 missiles to the mix on board (probably directed by local AEGIS ships, rather than the small vessels). If they're hard to locate and hit, that's probably the best protection you could build into something that small.

 

[mack69]

It's the Hummer of the high seas!!!

 

[Old NFO]

I think the point of these ships is that they are very effective, but also very expendable. One hit with a major warhead such as Exocet, Silkworm, or the (much larger) modern Russian missiles, would effectively destroy this ship - so why bother with large crews and hardened structure? If there are a lot of these swanning around, I guess the top brass would simply figure on losing a certain percentage. Not so nice for the crews on board..

Preacherman, y'all are missing the point of these ships... They are EXPERIMENTAL- They are being used to test a variety of equipment and systems, these are not anywhere close to final COMBAT designs.

Even the ones we're leasing from AUSTEL (HSV-1 and HSV-2) have only minimal upgrading, and that is really pointed to hardening decks and tween decks for helo ops and heavy (M-1A type) equipment. Western Express is currently out of Naha, and has deployed 3rd MEF a couple of times for practice and to gather data- that's 900 Marines at one time... and according to the Master, at least once off Korea, they had 900 Marines all puking at one time
He said that was $%^& of a mess!!!

 

[280PLUS]

Ha, I remember once we were being towed up to Seal Beach for offload under rough conditions with about a 75% new crew. Talk about a mess... Walking down the main passage was like being in a No Mans land of barf

 

[Orthonym]

That's a long, narrow catamaran, right?

Aren't they famous for being hard to turn quickly, that is, having a very large tactical diameter?

 

[Old NFO]

ren't they famous for being hard to turn quickly, that is, having a very large tactical diameter?

Orthonym, that is true on some of the very early ones, but with waterjet technology, they can turn in their own length, and tactical diameter is VERY small, even at speed due to the width of the jets from centerline. Having said that, it's NOT a pretty ride appearantly...

I watched HSV-2 come into port in Naha a couple of months ago at 3-5 kts, stop, spin in it's own length and sidestep to the pier within about 10 minutes, without a tug being there, AND it was against an outgoing tide!

 

[Gifted]

This is what a GBU 2000 did to the bridge area.

280, for an airman's sake, can you give more info on a GBU 2000? I'm guessing it's an older bomb.

 

[KriegHund]

Isnt it a...ah...forget the name now...

Ya know, one of the bombs that has various little ones...

CLUSTER BOMB! thats it! ha....

Er, yeah, isnt it a cluster bomb?

Oops, a google search leads me to believe its a 2000 pnd JDAM.

 

[Old NFO]

Er, yeah, isnt it a cluster bomb?

Not quite KreigHund, it was probably a GBU-31 which was the first series Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), which was a MK 84 2,000-pound class munition guided by an $18,000 LASER tail kit (which is a strap on mod). There are a LOT of different adds to the old iron bombs that give them some VERY interesting capabilities...

Add a 3 or 6 or 12 foot steel rod and they become "daisy cutters", add a 1 sec delay and a hardened nose, they become bunker busters, add the old pop out delay fins and the become "Snakes". All of these are based on the WWII designed MK 84 iron bomb

As an OBTW, CBU's consist of a primary munition (the case) and submunitions (things that pop/fly/drop out). They are also multiply configurable, and not real cheap...

 

[280PLUS]

oops...



Wrong bomb!

and a GBU-24 (2400 lb laser guided) bomb.

I'm guessing Guided Bomb U? can you finish that NFO?

Or Great Big Ugly...

That's the best I can do, sorry I left out the other 400 lbs...

 

[Old NFO]

I'm guessing Guided Bomb U? can you finish that NFO?

Actually it IS Guided Bomb Unit- No wait a minute, that can't be right... the acronym makes sense...

There is no such animal as a GBU-24 (no 2400 lb bomb) Mk84 was the largest until the original 15K daisy cutter.

"Probably" what you were told was that it was a 2000lb GBU, since the majority of folks don't know/have access to all the numbers and variations. Lots of times it's easier to just the weight and how it's guided or retarded...

 

[Gifted]

There is no such animal as a GBU-24

Number's right, weight isn't. 24 uses the BLU-109 warhead that is designed for bunker busting.

JDAMs are GPS guided, not laser.

Daisy cutter, last I knew, was specific to the 15,000 lb bomb dropped from Hercs and Skycranes. Got it's name from blasting instant DZs in the Vietnam jungles.

If they still put rods on bombs to make them blow above ground, it's not an AF thing anymore. Never saw mention of it in my work.

 

[Old NFO]

If they still put rods on bombs to make them blow above ground, it's not an AF thing anymore. Never saw mention of it in my work.

Gifted, there were "various" daisy cutters, they played with the sizes to try to get them to cut single helo LZ's too. IF I remember correctly the 2000lb version would blow about a 50yard LZ, which was plenty big for single ship LZ's. There were a lot of wierd little things like that done in country that weren't necessarily approved by higher command... or so I was told

A friend of mine flew F-4's for the Marines over there, and he said their standard loadout was mixed Snake and Nape for most of their CAS go missions. The Navy pretty much carried whatever was on the FRAG message, same with the USAF flying out of various places in Thailand.

 

[Burt Blade]

Someone asked where the ship had her "don't mess with me" items.

It is that red white and blue rectangle flapping in the breeze. Says it all.

 

[280PLUS]

I don't know, they're calling it a GBU - 2400 at the website but maybe it's an error?

On June 13, 2000 the USS Buchanan took part in the RIMPAC 2000 as a target ship at Pacific Missile Range Facility, North of the Hawaiian Island of Kauia. American, Canadian and Australian forces tried to sink her for more than 24 hours. She took Three hits from Hellfire missiles fired from SH-60 LAMPS helos; Three Harpoon Missiles fired from RAAF F-111 & US P-3 aircraft and several allied ships; and a GBU-24 (2400 lb laser guided) bomb. The USS Buffalo's MK-48 torpedo that was to have delivered the coup de grace malfunctioned. Buchanan stayed afloat all night.
On the morning of June 14, 2000 EOD Team boarded her and placed 200 pounds of C-4 in predetermined locations. Sixteen minutes and three seconds after igniting the time fuse the Buchanan gracefully in a bow down attitude slid below the surface of the Pacific Ocean.
At 21:26:30Z (11:26:30 AM HST) 14 June 2000 Davy Jones piped her aboard at her final resting place of 22:54.38N, 160:27.68W , 64 Nautical Miles from land in 2540 Fathoms of water.

notice how she wouldn't go down on the 13th, she waited till the 14th. Spooky or what?

Gee, I'm noticing this happened five years ago now. That's pretty spooky too...

 

[c_yeager]

Bad 2 Hulls= twice as much water line.

Why is this? The result is less boat in the water (less drag=speed) and a much more stable platform.

I suspect that this stability and speed is what has the coastguard interested as it would make a pretty nifty S.A.R helicopter platform in rough conditions.

 

[goosegunner]

Could not resist:

It is that red white and blue rectangle flapping in the breeze.

You mean there is a FRENCH flag on it???