neck sizing:can you do it wrong?
- Thread starter goindeep
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243winxb
Member
that is the first step, then the expander on the decapping pin opens up the inside of the neck to the correct bullet diameter, when using standard dies.
Jeff F
Member
When I neck size my .303 British loads I bump the shoulder back just a touch, seems to let them chamber a little easier.
243winxb
Member
Neck sizing only
http://www.stevespages.com/page8d.htm The 303 has a large amount of taper to the body of the case. A case like this can be neck sized using a Full Length Resizing Die, if care is taken not to bump the shoulder or touch any part of the case body. If you must neck size only, buy a special neck sizing die. Or a Lee collet die, or bench rest bushing die. Bumping back the shoulder is nothing more than Full Length Resizing , but the die is backed out off the shell holder as little as .001" to .005"
http://www.stevespages.com/page8d.htm The 303 has a large amount of taper to the body of the case. A case like this can be neck sized using a Full Length Resizing Die, if care is taken not to bump the shoulder or touch any part of the case body. If you must neck size only, buy a special neck sizing die. Or a Lee collet die, or bench rest bushing die. Bumping back the shoulder is nothing more than Full Length Resizing , but the die is backed out off the shell holder as little as .001" to .005"
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243winxb
Member
i would not size brass as described for the 303, just because it could be done , doesn't mean you should do it. Buy the correct neck sizing die. Besides, i find that FLRS is more accurate and reliable/dependable.
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Afy - I don't know if it would work exactly the same way with a 8mm Mauser as it would with the .303.
The best way I have found to do it is get a set of regular FL dies AND a neck sizing die.
Use the FL sizing die to size any virgin brass that you get or for any scrounged/free/used brass you might be able to get.
Use the neck sizing die to size brass after it's been fired in your rifle.
BTW - you can size with a neck sizing die without using any lube.
I know that you can only size the neck with an FL die but I don't know if you'll have to use lube. You might get away neck sizing only without lube in a tapered casing but in a straight walled casing I suspect that you'd get your brass stuck.
That would lead to swearing.
The best way I have found to do it is get a set of regular FL dies AND a neck sizing die.
Use the FL sizing die to size any virgin brass that you get or for any scrounged/free/used brass you might be able to get.
Use the neck sizing die to size brass after it's been fired in your rifle.
BTW - you can size with a neck sizing die without using any lube.
I know that you can only size the neck with an FL die but I don't know if you'll have to use lube. You might get away neck sizing only without lube in a tapered casing but in a straight walled casing I suspect that you'd get your brass stuck.
That would lead to swearing.
Larry E
Member
Chambers for rimmed military rifle cartridges were frequently long and large in diameter, and unless a custom full length die is used FL sizing .303, .30-40, and 7.62x53/54 will likely lead to case separations on the second firing. Setting an FL die to just bump the shoulder back a bit on any of these should work fine. I've seen partial sizing recommended in some loading manuals for rimless cases and found that it lead to cases that were too fat to fit into the rifle's chamber. For rimless cases neck size in a neck sizing die, and use a full length sizing die for full lenght sizing.
I watched a guy with a .30-40 Krag from Springfield Arsenal that separated every case on their second firing because he'd FL sized the cases with dies adjusted per the usual method recommended by die makers, screw the die down until it contacts the shell holder at it's highest point in the ram stroke. The shoulders on the "reassembled" cases were blown about ~ 1/4" forward.
I watched a guy with a .30-40 Krag from Springfield Arsenal that separated every case on their second firing because he'd FL sized the cases with dies adjusted per the usual method recommended by die makers, screw the die down until it contacts the shell holder at it's highest point in the ram stroke. The shoulders on the "reassembled" cases were blown about ~ 1/4" forward.
Dies for the 8x60S are crazy expensive in Europe. I paid about the equivavlent of $150 for my Hornady full length. Not dishing out for the neck sizer.
I guess I will just have to continue to put up with the mess of lube...
I have gotten about 6 loads out of my cases so far. Very mild ones though.
\time to figure out the annealing process.
I guess I will just have to continue to put up with the mess of lube...
I have gotten about 6 loads out of my cases so far. Very mild ones though.
\time to figure out the annealing process.
By 8x60 are you referring to the regular 7.92x57 (8mm) Mauser?
Or are you talking something else?
Either way, that's nuts!
And kind of backwards!
A regular set of FL dies over here only costs about $25 for RCBS or $30 for Hornady. The price you paid is almost enough justify a field trip across the ocean just for reloading dies.
You could make a fortune reselling them!
Would it be illegal for you to have a friend over here send you a necksizing die as an early Christmas present?
Gotta be a way around that...
As far as the lube goes, it might be worth a shot to see if you can resize just the neck without lube in an FL die. If it's tapered enough you may get away with it. All it would take is running an empty into your dies to see if it starts to get stuck before it gets sized. Nothing to lose really as long as you stop before you get your brass stuck.
FWIW, I only necksized .303 British when I loaded it because I only have neck sizing dies. My brother has a set of FL dies so we switched as needed - I used his to size scavenged brass and he used mine to keep from wearing brass out too soon (although it's kind of the nature of the beast in an Enfield). But we didn't need lube in my necksizing die.
Loading for the .303 with a necksizing die was probably the easiest reloading I've ever done.
Or are you talking something else?
Either way, that's nuts!
And kind of backwards!
A regular set of FL dies over here only costs about $25 for RCBS or $30 for Hornady. The price you paid is almost enough justify a field trip across the ocean just for reloading dies.
You could make a fortune reselling them!
Would it be illegal for you to have a friend over here send you a necksizing die as an early Christmas present?
Gotta be a way around that...
As far as the lube goes, it might be worth a shot to see if you can resize just the neck without lube in an FL die. If it's tapered enough you may get away with it. All it would take is running an empty into your dies to see if it starts to get stuck before it gets sized. Nothing to lose really as long as you stop before you get your brass stuck.
FWIW, I only necksized .303 British when I loaded it because I only have neck sizing dies. My brother has a set of FL dies so we switched as needed - I used his to size scavenged brass and he used mine to keep from wearing brass out too soon (although it's kind of the nature of the beast in an Enfield). But we didn't need lube in my necksizing die.
Loading for the .303 with a necksizing die was probably the easiest reloading I've ever done.
243winxb
Member
Could this be done with the 8mm mauser?
NO, you can not neck size with a FLRD as the taper on the 8mm is a lot less than the 303 by about .020" But you can do this
NO, you can not neck size with a FLRD as the taper on the 8mm is a lot less than the 303 by about .020" But you can do this
You must lube the outside of the case and inside the neck because you are Full Length Resizing.
lordgroom
Member
Afy- Can someone from the USA legally send you a neck sizing die? That would have to be far cheaper than $150. I just received a casting mold from Europe and the shipping looking to be about 8-9 euros. The neck sizing die is about $20-$30. Far cheaper than $150.
243winxb
Member
International Orders
http://www.gamaliel.com/cart/pages.php?pageid=4 Looks like you can buy directly from the USA if you have a large order and time to wait for it.
Did this Thread get off the subject or what?
http://www.gamaliel.com/cart/pages.php?pageid=4 Looks like you can buy directly from the USA if you have a large order and time to wait for it.
With the value of the dollar down about 30% in the last year or so, i would think buying US Items with Euro would be a bargin.
Did this Thread get off the subject or what? Strongbad
Member
I do partial full length resizing (sizing with the FL die just enough to get the round to chamber snug) on pretty much everything I shoot with the exception of the 338/378 that I have a custom made neck sizing bushing die for.
I saw above where neck sizing with no lube was mentioned. You may be able to get away with it using a neck sizing die (I'd still lube them because it keeps the brass from stretching), but if you try to partial resize without lubing you're probably going to end up with a stuck case. Maybe not immediately, but it'll happen. The taper on the case wont mean squat.
I saw above where neck sizing with no lube was mentioned. You may be able to get away with it using a neck sizing die (I'd still lube them because it keeps the brass from stretching), but if you try to partial resize without lubing you're probably going to end up with a stuck case. Maybe not immediately, but it'll happen. The taper on the case wont mean squat.
I don't know what caliber the original poster is questioning about but it seems strange no one mentioned the need to understand headspace. I reload for a shouldered rifle caliber and I carefully measure the fired case base to datum dimension to correctly set my sizer die for proper headspace.
ed_e, as long as you're loading for the same gun you fired the brass in, do you have to understand head space to do neck sizing?
when i neck size (e.g. 308win) i don't touch the shoulder. just the neck. so the brass stays however it was when it came out of that chamber.
to answer the OP, i would say you could put too much or too little tension on the bullet, although that might be more aptly called 'suboptimal' instead of 'wrong'. there are probably several ways to do neck sizing better and worse.
but offhand, it's sort of hard to do 'wrong'.
when i neck size (e.g. 308win) i don't touch the shoulder. just the neck. so the brass stays however it was when it came out of that chamber.
to answer the OP, i would say you could put too much or too little tension on the bullet, although that might be more aptly called 'suboptimal' instead of 'wrong'. there are probably several ways to do neck sizing better and worse.
but offhand, it's sort of hard to do 'wrong'.
I believe it is a good thing to understand Head Clearance commonly referred to as “head space“. But when neck sizing only for a cartridge that is for the same bolt action rifle you fired the brass in previously, then your “headspace” should not be a problem.
You addressed me so I will answer with my understanding.
If you neck only (NO) size, the body of the brass will grow providing 0.001 to 0.002 headspace for the same rifle due to brass spring back. Maybe not a problem for a .308 bolt rifle but can become a problem for a semi-auto (orig poster did not say what caliber or gun). I am a bench rest shooter and the best info I have gotten from many other bench rest shooters is that for a bolt rifle NO sizing can be done as long as you understand the chamber and brass characteristics you use. For semi-auto you need to FL (full length) size to be sure reloaded brass will be properly chambered without sticking. It is possible to NO size a couple of times for semi-auto but ultimately you will need to FL size to get the brass back to reliable dimensions. The most important thing is what you said: NO sizing can be OK for the same rifle from which it was originally shot.
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