Need a .308 AR-10 type weapon with all the "evil" looking goodies - suggestions?

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JLStorm

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Messages
1,131
Ok, well my wife finally gave me permission to start looking for an ar-10 type weapon seeing as the new AW ban is a real threat. I want to get the gun with all the goodies that Im sure will be banned as well, you know, anything that looks "mean" or "evil". I want to get this all at once so my wife accepts the cost and doesnt see me constantly buying more accessories. I want at the least a telescoping stock, quad rail, pistol grip,vertical foregrip, muzzle break / flash suppressor, etc...

I will also need an installed ambi mag release and safety (left handed)

This weapon will be pretty much my only hunting / SHTF / home defense rifle which is why I am going .308 over .223 even though I could afford to shoot a lot more .223.

I have considered RRA and DPMS so far, but I would like some other companies that make the entire package so I can order what I need all at one time.

Any suggestions?
 
DPMS

I have a DPMS AP-4 in 308 and it is awesome. It has all the features you want and it functions beautifully. It is an accurate gun but I have only fired it at 50 yards so far. The new PTR's with a weaver mount on the recievers are awesome too.
 
The thing about DPMS that confuses me is ALL the upgrades you can order when customizing the gun and I have no idea how much better those upgrades are than what comes with the gun.
 
Yes, I do have a suggestion. Get a FAL instead. With a scope and a DSA barrel, head shots out of a carbine are possible at 300 yards. They NEVER jam. Mags are cheap. The aftermarket for FAL's is just about as big as for AR10's. Best way to go.
 
:) Just get mags--they're the ugliest goodie of all.

Just to say, you could probably get 2 solid FAL's for the cost of one ar10. 1911JMB is right on that, no doubt.


I do like the look of the Armalite 10b with the 'Sudanese brown' furniture.
 
Since others are suggesting FAL's, how about a PTR91 :)

ptr91.jpg


Specifically listed on the latest 'ban' list... .308, accurate, reliable, mags are cheap, after market stocks, regular, folding, or collapsible, are available, Bayonet is cheap and evil looking...
 
I did a lot of shopping around. Shooting, handling the works. I went with the DPMS LR-308 AP4. But I have been in the military a long time and is what I was most comfortable with.

I was not crazy about the ergonomics of the FAL or Cetme/ G3 although the PTR-91 was a step up from that crowd.

Before you drop a 1k+ check them all.
 
A top of the line DSA FAL will be the same price or more than an AR10 type rifle. I am not sure how the other versions really compare.

My brother got a DPMS for around $975 and loves it. He had the same idea in mind: hunting and SHTF. He didn't have any other semi-auto rifles.

I guess the real savings with an FAL or PTR-91 will be in the mags. Most AR .308 mags are at least $40.
 
Tell me what I dont need

My problem with DPMS is all the upgrades they offer, half of which I am just picking cause they sound good lol. Can someone tell me what I DONT need?
I cant escape for under $2500! I know I want the quad rail, and the ambi features. I have also heard the DPMS triggers are really rough, so I would go with the chip McCormick drop in, as for the other upgrades...I dont know if they are worth it or not...like the durracoat, and cryo-accurizing, etc. Any help would be appreciated.

Here is the list of upgrades for the completed gun.

Panther LR-308AP4

Congratulations, you've completed building your custom product.

Product Description Price

Panther LR-308AP4 Model: RFLR-AP4 $1,249.00

Barrel Upgrade: Cryo-Accurizing
Model: UG-36 $65.00

Current Bolt Catch to: Tactical Bolt Catch
Model: UG-T11 $18.95

Standard Charging Handle to: Tactical Latch Charging Handle Assembly
Model: UG-73 $43.95

Current .308 Panther Flash Hider to: Bennie Cooley Tactical Compensator for .308
Model: UG-308BCT $85.95

Upgrade to 4-Rail Gas Block
Model: UG-51 $20.00

Current .308 Free Float Tube to: .308 4-Rail Free Float Tube, Carbine Length
Model: UG-3084C $159.95

Standard Mag Button to: Ambidextrous Mag Release
Model: UG-86 $105.00

Current A2 Pistol Grip to: Hogue Rubber Grip with Finger Grooves
Model: UG-HPG $27.95

Rifle Finish: Duracoat Rifle Paint
Model: UG-DC $300.00

Standard Safety Selector to: Ambi Safety Selector
Model: UG-87 $35.95

Current AR Trigger to: Chip McCormick Drop in Trigger
Model: UG-CHIP $169.95

Current .308 Upper Receiver to: .308 Steel Upper Receiver
Model: UG-308ST $125.00

Custom Product Total $2,406.65 :cuss:
 
I would say the tactical bolt catch and charging handle could be dropped, I handle a M4 on a daily basis and would say the stardard ones work just fine.

You could probably lose the cryo treatment as well, I've heard mixed results of it and ended up passing on it for my hart barrel myself.

Not to sure on the duracoat finish, stardard park works just fine, and as far as switching to a steel upper reciever, might be needed for .308, but afaik its not needed with 5.56 and i really don't see it being needed for .308, the stardard reciever should give you years and years of use with no problems.

so right there you could save $127.90 on the first three options, and another possible $425.00 with the later two, for a total of $552.90.

but like everyone says on here, its your money free to do with as you wish. Also I'd like to point out I have no experience with any .308 chambered ARs whatso ever, but plenty of experience with M16A2s, M16A4s, and M4s.
 
What you dont need.

Barrel Upgrade: Cryo-Accurizing
Model: UG-36 $65.00

Worthless as tits on a bull

Current Bolt Catch to: Tactical Bolt Catch
Model: UG-T11 $18.95

I am not sure what this is but I doubt it is any more usefull than a regular bolt release.

Standard Charging Handle to: Tactical Latch Charging Handle Assembly
Model: UG-73 $43.95

The standard unit works well enough.

Current .308 Panther Flash Hider to: Bennie Cooley Tactical Compensator for .308
Model: UG-308BCT $85.95

You really dont need it.

Upgrade to 4-Rail Gas Block
Model: UG-51 $20.00

Useless again, do you really plan to hang crap off of your gas block? I love the guys that buy these and then put special rail mount front sight posts on them :confused: .

Rifle Finish: Duracoat Rifle Paint
Model: UG-DC $300.00

Are you going to look at it or shoot it?

Standard Safety Selector to: Ambi Safety Selector
Model: UG-87 $35.95

Standard Mag Button to: Ambidextrous Mag Release
Model: UG-86 $105.00

Are you left handed?

Current .308 Upper Receiver to: .308 Steel Upper Receiver
Model: UG-308ST $125.00

No real gains here, just makes your rifle heavier.

Saved you around $800.00 dollars there. You could buy alot of ammo and mags with that, or another rifle for a little more.
 
Thanks guys :)

Glockfan, I am left handed so I need the ambi stuff, but I will dump the rest of it thanks :)
 
I won't think about purchasing an AR10 style rifle until I can get all of this in one out of the box package:

- A lower that takes inexpensive and plentiful FAL mags like the RR LAR-10. I ain't buying overpriced proprietary mags or kludged up M14 mags.

- A short stroke piston gas system, similar to the Leitner-Wise design (not the lame POF design). I don't care how many slopes your daddy smoked in The 'Nam with a direct impingement gas system rifle, I don't want direct impingement on a .308 rifle! It may be tolerable in .223, but .308 sh**s a lot more than .223 and I don't want my rifle eating where it sh**s.

- Chrome lined 20" barrel AND chamber. Not chrome moly, and definitely not stainless steel. Who the hell wants a shiny battle rifle? Even so-called "matte" stainless is ugly as hell and is a definite tactical disadvantage. This aint an anal-retentive hole-punching rifle, its a BATTLE rifle.

It'd be nice if it came out of the with a flat top upper and detachable carry handle as well as a quality two-stage trigger like the RRA or the McCormick, but that isn't a very difficult thing to manage. The standard Colt style single stage trigger is a flaming POS and has no place on a battle rifle. Standard A2 furniture in black or OD green.

It would also be very nice if it also came with a little device that deploys and bitchslaps the owner if they install those damn mall ninja rails and pointless gizmo accessories all over the handguards or if they ever mount a bubbafied fudded-up deer rifle tube scope instead of a real battle optic like a BDC-reticle ACOG. Dare to dream, eh?
 
Perd I really am not interested in what you dont want...I am interested in what people do want...otherwise its just people venting which really doesnt help me.
 
JLS -

First, a disclaimer: I wouldn't recommend an out-of-the-box AR-10 from any manufacturer for an emergencies rifle. The AR-10 does not share the same inherent reliability of the AR-15, and I do not think that the (arguably) greater terminal effect of the 0.308 round is worth comprimising the reliability of your defensive rifle.

Okay, with that out of the way, I'd suggest getting in touch with GA Precision, MSTN, or Stewart Wilson and having them build you an AR-10 to your specs. Any of those makers can squeeze every last drop of reliability, accuracy, and shootability out of the AR-10 platform.

My personal AR-10, if I had one, would have a high quality 1-4x scope with illuminated reticle, a lightweight 18-20" stainless-steel barrel (JP Supermatch, Blackstar, ABS, one of those), a properly fitted JP or Timney single-stage trigger, a JP-VTAC float tube, and an LMT or Magpul adjustable stock. I would want to keep it as light and speedy as possible - no vertical foregrip or mounted light. A 0.308 AR is not a CQB gun.

- Chris
 
I geuss i wonder if most of the people who say ar 10s are unreliable have spent much time around them i have had my armalite A4 for 3 years now and no malfunctions of any kind shot all kinds of ammo through it cycles everything and will shoot 1 m.o.a with most i got rid of my fal last year cause every time i had to choose i picked the 10 everytime best gun i have ever owned
 
bulletmonger said:
I geuss i wonder if most of the people who say ar 10s are unreliable have spent much time around them i have had my armalite A4 for 3 years now and no malfunctions of any kind shot all kinds of ammo through it cycles everything and will shoot 1 m.o.a with most i got rid of my fal last year cause every time i had to choose i picked the 10 everytime best gun i have ever owned
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I have an AR10A4 carbine, and it has been flawless.

I also have an LEC15A4 from Armalite, and it too has been flawless.

I want to know what people do to their rifles to make them malfunction so much. I never have malfunctions with my centerfire rifles. Not a one, across half a dozen rifles, since I've owned them. ALL of them.

The only malfunctions I generally encounter are with rimfire rifles and pistols, and that is nearly always caused by bad ammo.

Every once in a while I'll get a cantankerous 1911 into the shop that just won't feed for love nor money, but even those beasts can usually be made to function properly in the end.

I dunno, maybe I'm blessed or something, but I just don't see these rampant malfunctions like a lot of forum goers seem to.

To the OP: Buy the AR10 (or the DPMS, whatever trips your trigger), you won't regret it. Internet commandos be damned. ;)
 
To some degree, I'm im in the same boat as you are with the wife. She is reluctant but 'sorta ok' spending large sums of $$ in the current political currents.

I fully realize your post mentioned an AR-type platform. I did see several others that offered different suggestions.

In January, I decided I wanted a .308 battle rifle, and I began my search. I wanted to be able to hunt with it, but that was not my primary use. And, I wanted a full-size battle rifle. I pray we don't have that SHTF situation, but I'm also trying to make myself and my family ready if it does.

I considered an HK91 copy, but didn't like the ergos (again, a personal prefernce there, the design is certainly proven itself)

I also considered an Armalite Ar-10, and put my name on a list for one, (first option I came across in January) but kept looking and researching. It seems like a lot of the mfgrs of AR-type .308s use proprietary mags, and/or they are super pricey. At least the RRA uses FAL mags, and if after learning that, if I chose an AR-type, that would be the one. For a platform they may be sucessful in banning, keep in mind they will have an easier time banning mags first. It makes sense to me to pick up as many mags as you can now, and take very good care of them, since they may have to last a very long time.

I really liked the fail-proof (nearly) reputation the FAL design has, and I REALLY liked the cheap mags. I wanted a colapsible stock, so for me I only considered the DSA FAL Paratrooper model. I'd still like to have one.

The platform I decided on was the M1A. H20MAN's pics did have some influence. I put an M1a Standard into a Sage Intl. stock, and wow. While it's not a lefty design, the only thing that's 'sided' is the charging handle. The safety, and mag release is dead-center on the bottom. But, talk about simple. It's not crude, in fact, it's so simple, it has its own elegance to it. With the SAGE stock, it's really 'evil' looking like you wanted, but what a capable platform and design. I'm so happy I went this way. I can get mags for $22 each, and it's a proven platform. From what I could find out, it seems to be the best of all worlds, accuracy, simplicity, ruggedness, durability. I also have so far picked up 20 Mags.

Best of luck to you in your search. I'm not one of those folks that thinks there is only one right answer. There may be a right one for you, but perhpas not. I love my M1A. I'd love to add both a contemporary DSA FAL and a period-accurate older FN/FAL to tickle my history nerve. But, if you decide to go the AR route, I strongly suggest you look carefully at magazine cost, and allow that to help guide your choice.

PE
 
OK, I gotta say this, and then I'll quit.

Why do people fret over spending $30-$40 on a magazine when they've just dropped damned near $2k on a rifle?

I mean really.

Armalite has a package deal where they'll sell you (5) 20 rd or (5) 25 rd magazines for $200.

That's $40 a pop, and let me tell you, they are the best magazines I have ever used, bar none. Worth every penny they cost. AND, they're steel, so the feed lips last a hell of a lot longer than the standard alum tube AR15 mag. If you don't get at least four times the life from an AR10 mag versus a USGI AR15 mag, something is wrong.

I have ten (10) mags for my AR10, so that's $400 on magazines total, for a rifle that cost four times that. The barrel will be shot out before all those magazines go to hell, and honestly, you can't carry even that many on your person anyway, so I'm a bit confused.

Also, say a FAL mag costs only $10 (I don't know what they cost, but for the sake of argument, roll with me here). That's a savings of $300 initially. Now, lets say that a mag will last for only 1,000 rounds (which they will easily surpass, but again, roll with me for a bit).

Now, say ammo costs you only $0.25 per round (way under market right now), so to wear out that magazine will cost you ~$250 in ammo.

You save $30 per replacement mag, but you had to spend $250 on ammo to wear it out in the first place.

The point I'm driving at here, is that you will long since have gone broke from buying ammo before you even need to worry about the cost of new magazines.

You're going to spend at least one and maybe two orders of magnitude more money on ammo than you ever will on magazines.

If mags are available for the platform you're after, the actual cost of those mags is nearly pointless to worry about, unless you plan to horde 500 of them or something like that.

To discount an entire line of weapons just because they take a magazine made just for them is, IMO at least, foolish.

1911's only take 1911 mags. Glocks only take Glock mags. S&W pistols only take S&W mags. Remington rifles (both bolt and autos) only take Remington mags (usually unique to a single model and caliber or action length). And the list goes on and on.

Proprietary mags are not, in and of themselves, a horrible and crippling shortcoming.

Now, if those mags suck as well, then I'd steer clear, but Armalite's Gen II AR10 mags are both of excellent quality and excellent design. They function 100% of the time, and are very robustly built.

Contrary to what others may say, they are NOT simply modified M14 mags any longer. They were once upon a time (the Gen I mags from years ago) to get around the Hi-Cap mag ban in the '94 AWB. There were millions of surplus M14 mags already out there, so they wisely decided to tap that large reservoir of grandfathered Hi-Caps when they built their new rifle.

The Gen I's had a few issues, but those have all been fixed long ago with the advent of the Gen II mags.

In the grand scheme of things, $300 on mags is a drop in the bucket, especially when you consider that you'll easily spend 10-50 times that in ammo over the life of the weapon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Finally giving in and buying an AR....suggestions?
2
Replies
47
Views
1K
CDR_Glock
CDR_Glock
M
  • Locked
308
Replies
17
Views
1K
Mike2
M
C
  • Locked
looking to build celebration AR
Replies
7
Views
598
captain obvious
C
G
  • Locked
AR-style in .308?
2
Replies
41
Views
2K
Livnoutdoorsxd9
L
B
  • Locked
Flashlight for AR 15
Replies
16
Views
743
Bazooka Joe71
B
Back
Top