Need A .45 ACP

[rswartsell]

Title says it all.

I have been an Old School 1911 user to this point. Like I have a choice at my age?

Well, a good friend convinced me to sell him my Kimber Custom II Target (the only 1911 OR .45 ACP semi I owned). I was pretty happy with the Kimber, but there were a couple of .45 ACP loads I liked and it didn't. So...right about the time I buy a .45 Colt/ACP Blackhawk, have a 1,000 or so .45 ACP, I am without a .45 ACP semi.

I am tempted to;
1. upgrade the 1911 from the Kimber (that's a lot of coin).
2. try a 3rd gen. Smith like a 4506
3. Sig 220, et.al.

Have at it, tell me what and why. Can we limit this to personal experience? I can read too.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Buy a Springfield Loaded and go shooting....My Loaded it's any bullet style and shoot nice groups.

 

[AustinTX]

So many great choices out there, but I'd very strongly recommend always having at least one example of the platform with which you're most familiar and capable. Since you're an "old school 1911 user," you should definitely not go 1911-less. So the clear conclusion is: upgrade from your Kimber to a better 1911.

Is a Dan Wesson Valor too much? There are other excellent options, but I think it's pretty easily the best production 1911. I also think very highly of STI's quality. The STI Trojan is a lot less expensive than the Valor, but it's the class of the "mid-level" production guns, in my opinion.

I have much less experience with the Springfield TRP than either of those two, but people certainly rave about them; I'll let someone else comment on their current quality. They usually come in a couple hundred above the Trojan, but well under a Valor -- though as I say that, I see Osage County Guns is selling the TRP for $1,229 NIB on Gunbroker, which is a lot lower than anyone else's price, and pretty close to the going rate for a Trojan. If they're still regarded as highly as in recent years, that might be pretty hard to pass up (though, like I said, I can't really make a full recommendation from experience on that one). Just make sure that you're good with 20 lpi front-strap checkering before you buy a TRP, though.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Buy a Springfield Loaded and go shooting....My Loaded it's any bullet style and shoot nice groups.

I was looking hard at the Springfield Loaded 1911 until a shooting buddy/gunsmith I know recommended the new Ruger 1911. Any thoughts on the Ruger 1911 compared to the Springfield? I looked at the Ruger and it's awfully nice!

 

[Phaedrus/69]

What do you want to do with the gun? CCW, home defense or range toy? I would suggest you look at a Colt if you want another 1911. I'll qualify this by saying my opinion might be a little out of date since my Colt Commander in 38 Super was built a couple decades ago, can't vouch for the new ones being as good. But I feel it was much better than my newer Kimber TLE II. Personally I'd be tempted to try an STI, but you said personal experience and my experience with STI is limited to fondling, not actually shooting.

I think Sig 1911s are also very nice. Some have reported QC problems but in my experience they're pretty well made and excellent shooters. Sig 1911s are a good value IMO. They generally have most of the stuff you'd want right out of the box, with a lot of them having factory night sights.

Those of you that have ready my posts over time will have seen this coming... Look into an HK! The USP45, USPc 45, HK45 and HK45c would be great choices. If you want a pure shooter for range use or HD check out a USP45 Tactical. It's an amazing shooter and the Match Trigger is about as good as you'll find short of a 1911. A bit large for CCW but you won't find a much better or more reliable .45 ACP, and as a bonus it will shoot .45 Super without modification (as will a Glock). The USP has the advantage of being one of the relatively-few guns that's perfectly suited to being carried cocked-and-locked. If you want it for CCW or if you have smaller hands the USPc might be better.

The HK45/HK45c are superb guns as well. Like the USP you can get one with an LEM trigger (no safety), run it cocked-and-locked or decocked DA/SA. The HK45 series are newer and boast better ergos (including interchangeable backstraps) and are also great shooters and quite reliable.

 

[AustinTX]

I was looking hard at the Springfield Loaded 1911 until a shooting buddy/gunsmith I know recommended the new Ruger 1911. Any thoughts on the Ruger 1911 compared to the Springfield? I looked at the Ruger and it's awfully nice!

I'd buy the SR1911 over the Loaded any day. The SR1911 is a hell of a lot of gun for the money. I've never been impressed with the Loaded, though I know many feel otherwise. I just think it's utterly "meh" from a value standpoint. If someone really wants a Loaded, I'd encourage them to save up a little while longer and get an STI Trojan (or maybe even a TRP, given the price at OCG). Yes, it's more expensive, but it's a completely different class of gun quality-wise and a far better value.

I'll continue to be contrarian, make friends, and ensure multiple viewpoints get presented by saying that the Sig 1911s do absolutely nothing for me (much like everything else from Sig operating under Ron Cohen's Kimber playbook). Aside from being a butt-ugly interpretation of a 1911 (personal opinion), they don't use components/small parts anywhere near the quality of what they had when they were first introduced. Sig has cheapened those guns with every passing day (quality-wise, not price-wise). What Sig has done to the 1911 over the years is probably the clearest possible demonstration of what the implementation of Ron Cohen's vision has done to the quality of all of the products out of Exeter/Newington (great marketing, though, exactly like Kimber during and after Cohen's tenure, so the prices and sales will inevitably continue to rise). I think there are far better values at any price point in Sig's lineup. If the Sig really sings to you, though, do your level best to find an excellent-condition model from as close to 2004 as possible.

 

[Cee Zee]

I have a Sig P220 that I've had for a very long time. I couldn't ask for a better gun. It's built as solid as a tank even if it does have an alloy frame. I've put well over 15,000 rounds through that pistol and it still works perfect. I did have to replace the recoil spring after about 13,000 rounds but that was double the time it was supposed to last. Didn't cost much at all. That pistol is about as accurate as any bone stock pistol you will ever find unless it's a purpose built target pistol. But the Sig is a combat type gun and is made to deal with real world issues. I actually bought mine used so who knows how much wear it had on it before I bought it. It appeared to be a LEO's carry piece judging by the holster wear compared to how many rounds it had fired.

I've been extremely happy with that pistol. It's rock solid reliable, very accurate and built to last a lifetime. Mine was made in W. Germany which tells you how old it is. Some people will say that they don't make them as well as they did back when mine was made. I don't know about that. I just know mine is very nice.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I'll have to defer to Austin on that one. I haven't shot a brand new Sig; newest one I've actually fired is a few years old. Bear in mind too that they make the Revolution pistols which are a departure from the codified standard 1911, and they made the more traditional ones as well. It does seem that across the board Sig quality is going down.

I'll also have to confess that I'm conflicted about the 1911. I bought my first one in the 80's and sold my last one- a Kimber- a couple years back. To my mind the 1911 is too big for the amount of rounds, lacks features that I expect on a modern gun (eg 1913 rails, interchangeable grip panels) and weighs to much. However, all of those quibbles melt away when I'm at the range actually firing the danged things! There's little to rival the trigger of a well tuned 1911, no denying that.

 

[drband]

Dan Wesson Heritage. Has everything you really need and nothing you don't. Bonus: It's several hundred dollars less expensive than a Valor.

 

[TfflHndn]

I just bought a very lightly used Remington R1 Enhanced for a very good price, and it has exceeded my expectations. Fit and finish are awesome, the trigger is nearly on par with a Performance Center trigger, and it just plain shoots. Worth a look, especially if you can find one used at a good price.

 

[19-3Ben]

If you are considering the mid-upper level of 1911s, you're already in the territory of being able to get a less expensive gun customized. Rather than spend $1,200 on a factory gun, I'd do something like look for a used Ruger SR 1911 in the $450-500 range and then spend $700 getting it customized and tuned to be exactly what I want.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

My HK45 has been completely reliable and a pleasure to shoot. If you're looking for a die hard shooter, an HK will serve you well.

On the 1911 side, I'd look at Dan Wesson, but that is purely based on reading.

 

[HexHead]

Unless, like me when I sold my 1911 and the 700 rounds of .45 acp had lead bullets, another vote for the HK 45. I like it better than the Nighthawk I sold.

Since I had all those lead bullets, I also got a Blackhawk convertable for the .45 acp cylinder.

 

[Dryft]

I'm going to jump in on this one and recommend the Sig P220 SAO line. I have one of the carry models with the elite frame (beavertail), and it has been nothing but a pleasure to shoot.

Best thing about the SAO models? The safety is positioned like a 1911, but you can rack the slide to load/unload with the safety engaged! The pistol is a little thicker than a 1911, but not too much.

Definitely something I would look at if you have a hankering for something different.

 

[huntsman]

2. try a 3rd gen. Smith like a 4506

When I wanted an all steel quality .45acp I bought a 4566, my "other" .45 is a Blackhawk .45C/.45acp. I can live the rest of my life with these two .45 guns and never feel wanting.

 

[AustinTX]

Dan Wesson Heritage. Has everything you really need and nothing you don't. Bonus: It's several hundred dollars less expensive than a Valor.

Great suggestion. I don't know why I always omit the Heritage in these threads. I have zero personal experience with it, though (probably why I always forget it). Do you know if it's built to the same standard as the Valor, or close to it -- not with regard to extras, but in fit/finish and overall build quality? (I see what the website says, but I wouldn't expect a company to say, "These are cheaper because we let Lefty slap 'em together with parts that were out-of-spec for our best stuff. He's blind in one eye, can't see out of the other, and has the DTs, but he was a hell of a gunsmith back in the day.")

OP, I guess I should have included a non-1911 recommendation or two, even though I think your single .45 should be in the platform you know best out of all pistols. I love the Beretta PX4 (Bill Wilson's favorite polymer pistol, but one that's still very underappreciated) and the HK45. I think HKs are terrific guns but just a bit overhyped, but with the current rebate, the price/value is very attractive. I've shot both a good deal. I'm trying to focus strictly on out-of-production guns these days, otherwise I would buy them in a heartbeat. This damned HK rebate has me tempted to pick up an HK45 or P30L; I think Beretta still has a $75 mail-in rebate going on for the PX4 as well. The PX4 is the softest-shooting regular full-size polymer pistol in each of its respective calibers that I've ever shot (and I've shot all of the ones worth looking at); the rotating-barrel action dampens recoil to an impressive degree. The build quality is top-notch, which makes it a terrific value at its ~$500 cost (before taxes or FFL transfer fee, but also before the $75 MIR). The HK45 has probably the most comfortable grip you'll find on a poly .45, is also a soft shooter, and is of course very well-built (the only real negative for me on the poly HKs being the triggers). Both guns are super accurate and reliable. Can't really go wrong. Of course, a third-gen. S&W will never do you wrong, either. S&W also made a wonderful shooter in years past that's quite 1911-like, but not a 1911, in the Performance Center 945. Super smooth and accurate. But they fetch a pretty penny.

As I hinted above, I personally wouldn't buy any American Sig from 2004 onward. The company and its lineup are getting Cohen's Kimber treatment in the worst way (I realize that might mean something different to you than me), and it makes this long-time Sig fan want to cry/break something. A pre-2004 P220 would be a terrific gun, though. I'm not a Sig purist that insists that the only good Sigs have ever come from Germany. American Sigs from the years before 2004 (some Sig-crazy folks say the mid to late '90s) are essentially the equals of their German counterparts, in my opinion.

I guess that's more than a couple of suggestions. Like I said earlier, lots of great options out there.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I like my Colt Combat Elite and my SIG P220. Both are ridiculously accurate and well-made firearms.

 

[bannockburn]

I had a Browning BDA .45 (older style SIG P220), that was one of the softest shooting .45s I have ever used along with having some truly amazing accuracy (like Gold Cup accurate). The only thing I wasn't thrilled with was the first shot was double action; otherwise a great single action trigger.

Nowadays most of my .45s are 1911 variants, mainly Colts, with a Springfield Armory M1911A1 in the mix. Favorites include a Colt Government, Lightweight Government, Combat Commander, and an Officers Model. All are well made, reliable, and accurate guns.

 

[BlindJustice]

OlP.. rvwartsell

* Budget limit??
* purpose - Target/HD or ?

The Ruger does offer good features for the price point
in the mid-$600

Up a notch maybe +$100 Springfield Armory Range Officer has most of
the features of a loaded but parkerized finish.
and has fully W&E adjustable rear sight

4506 3rd gen S&W and the P200 are DA first shot so they aren't so
Target oriented imo

My full size is aa S&W 1911 which run about $800
and a S&W 625 .45 ACP & for carry a Colt Commander
but I still need another .45 ACP

Randall

 

[Hangingrock]

February 2014 (73) Rds draw and shoot doubles.

The problem for most individual users of the S&W 4506 is the transition of the first shot between the trigger press of DA @ 10lbs and SA @ 5lbs ( the trigger press weights are measured from my example of the S&W 4506 first year production).

Some individuals also complain about size and weight of the S&W4506.

I've never experienced durability issues or feeding problems. I believe it out Glocks the Glock in regards to reliability.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If you are looking at trying out a platform a bit different than a 1911, you really can't go wrong with an HK45 or a SIG 220. The are both as accurate as any 1911 that has been already mentioned and quite a bit more reliable.

In my hands the 220 has the better trigger and the HK45 has better ergos in control location (the Nills designed grips are outstanding).

When recommending a mid-priced 1911, I usually recommend the Dan Wesson (my experience has been with the CBOB; since replaced by the VBOB) and the STI Trojan.

The STI Trojan I tried for a week came equipped with a couple of things I don't usual care for...FLGR, adjustable sights...but otherwise it is very close to how I'd have a 1911 built.

The Dan Wesson I've used would have only needed some texturing on the MSH and a change in the rear sight to be a very usable carry gun

 

[Tallball]

An alternative to having a 1911 or a different 45acp: just buy one of each. My stepbrother and I each bought different inexpensive versions of the 1911 ($400) and they have given no problems. That would leave you plenty of room to buy a Sig or S&W or Glock or whatever.

 

[george burns]

My second Glock 30, this one is the "S". A 20 oz gun with 11 rounds, A front night site, and a 13 round mag from a 21. The perfect setup for me. There is no lighter gun with less recoil that holds as many rounds and goes bang every time. My other one is 20 years old and still shoots like day 1.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

In my hands the 220 has the better trigger and the HK45 has better ergos in control location (the Nills designed grips are outstanding).

And that's why all my S&W revolvers get Nill grips. The designs that come out of that company are fantastic and make a world of difference when shooting.

 

[ritepath]

Can't say enough great things about my (newer 2012) p220. Reliable, slim, accurate, easy on the eyes.

Great pistol....I'd buy another in a heartbeat.