Need a Big Safe at under $4000

[Stangs55]

I need a big safe...40" bare minimum, but I'm thinking 50" will be better.

Let me get this out of the way....a Sturdy safe is not an option, so don't worry about suggesting it. I know they get all kinds of internet love, but my wife says no based on looks alone. It will be inside the house...and she's not fussing at the $4k, so I'm picking my battles.

Second of all, $3000, WAS my budget....so I've already stretched it this far and it cannot stretch any further....so the argument of "just go ahead and spend $200 more" isn't valid as I've already done that 5 times.

With that said, it needs to be installed inside my house for $4000...however we do that by cutting sales tax, shipping, etc doesn't matter....the bottom line is $4k. Two of the below safes are local, one is over the internet...

Here's what I've narrowed it down to with prices that are confirmed to come in just at or under $4000 installed...AMSEC BF 7250, Champion Triumph, Liberty Lincoln.

I made a quick spreadsheet so that I could easily compare the most important features:


Here are the intangibles...
AMSEC BF7250
- good looking
- I'd have to order it online to get it under $4k....that process worries me....

Champion Triumph
- Seems like a well built safe for the money
- not big fan of their textured finished options (only grey and a champagne color)...can't afford the gloss finish and stay under $4k.

Liberty Lincoln
- Gorgeous.
- Really gorgeous.
- In fact...I think this is the only reason it's still on the list
- Excellent, proven warranty service

So what do you guys think?
At this point, I'm 95% sold on the AMSEC. Am I missing anything here for a large safe that I can get installed for $4000? Other options?

Thanks in advance

 

[Savage99]

If I buy another safe or move from this house I will buy a safe that I can assemble myself where I want it and then if necessary take it apart and take it with me!

Such safes are made by Snap Safe, Zanotti, Champion and others.



http://www.zanottiarmor.com/safes.htm

 

[hso]

We have two bona fide safe experts as members. a1abdj or CB900F should be along to provide insights shortly.

 

[CB900F]

Stangs55;

To my mind there's no question, go with the AMSEC. The problem with the jigsaw puzzle units is the total lack of thermal insulation. Every joint is pathway for heat and the noxious gasses of a fire to get in. Don't discount the damage those gasses can do to photographs, scope lens coatings, and mint coins. It doesn't really matter if open flame can't get in either, the heat transfer is perfectly capable of igniting volatiles in the bolt-it-together-yourself unit.

AMSEC's warranty & willingness to stand behind their product is not an issue to my mind. I've dealt with the company for decades & never found them to be deficient in that department. They make a quality product and stand behind it. Speaking of the AMSEC, I'll also suggest getting a price on it from A1abdj. He should be able to be very competitive with any sales point you've contacted. And the AMSEC is made in America.

900F

 

[Stangs55]

Stangs55;

To my mind there's no question, go with the AMSEC. The problem with the jigsaw puzzle units is the total lack of thermal insulation. Every joint is pathway for heat and the noxious gasses of a fire to get in. Don't discount the damage those gasses can do to photographs, scope lens coatings, and mint coins. It doesn't really matter if open flame can't get in either, the heat transfer is perfectly capable of igniting volatiles in the bolt-it-together-yourself unit.

AMSEC's warranty & willingness to stand behind their product is not an issue to my mind. I've dealt with the company for decades & never found them to be deficient in that department. They make a quality product and stand behind it. Speaking of the AMSEC, I'll also suggest getting a price on it from A1abdj. He should be able to be very competitive with any sales point you've contacted. And the AMSEC is made in America.

900F

Thanks. That's kinda confirming what I've been thinking. I'll send a1abdj a PM and see what he can do.

 

[a1abdj]

Here's why ordering online is a problem. If what you're buying is also sold locally, your local professionals are going to be more likely to refuse to deal with it, or, will adjust their pricing upwards to account for you not buying it through them.

In the end, it may not save you money at all, and will likely increase your headaches. For this reason, if a product is sold locally, you should consider buying locally. Anything not available locally is another story all together.

 

[Stangs55]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going AMSEC BF7250.

The online process just bothers me when dealing with a near 1 ton shipment...
I ended up finding a different local dealer who was willing to work with me. While he couldn't match the online price, I feel like the extra cash is going to be worth it in the long run.

It'll be delivered next week.

Now....just to throw a wrench in it....what do you guys think about this...
I was originally set on a 40" wide safe as it will fit into a closet inside the home, BUT there's a big caveat... The door won't completely open. The width of the closet from the back of where the safe would sit to the opposite wall is 55". Given that the safe is 26" deep, I could open a 40" wide safe about 60-70 degrees...still enough for me to get to smaller items that would be stored near the hinges.

The other option is get the 7250 and just put it in my garage where it has all the space in the world. Problem is that I'm in Houston, TX (spoiler alert: it's hot and humid). I originally wasn't even considering this option, but every single local safe dealer I spoke with over the past few days says that this is not a problem as long as I keep the guns oiled regularly and use a golden rod (or two).

Thoughts? As someone who is OCD about keeping his firearms oiled, but certainly doesn't want any rust...ever....what would you do? Go with the smaller safe, keep it inside, and not be able to fully open the door? Or get the larger safe, put it in the garage, and stick a couple golden rods inside with regular oiling?

Thanks.

 

[CB900F]

Stangs55;

A golden rod won't hurt, they're inexpensive & by all means get one - but. All a golden rod is, is a low-wattage thermostatically controlled electric heater. It's purpose is to keep moisture from condensing on the cooler metal bits of your guns. It does nothing to reduce the humidity in the interior of the unit it's in. To get that done you either need dessicant packs or an actual de-humidifier.

However, if the unit goes in your home, I presume you've got air conditioning. Therefore, monitor the humidity in your home with one of the easily available & low cost gauges that do that. I suspect that it'll be fine in the home with a golden rod. In other words, if say your home runs 60% humidity instead of the "ideal" 50%, don't obsess over it, your guns will be fine. A garage safe probably won't need to be as pretty either, & you might be able to save some money because of that. However, you will have to give the static internal atmosphere of the unit more thought. There, Houston's ambient conditions will promote rust in short order.

900F

 

[Stangs55]

Stangs55;



A golden rod won't hurt, they're inexpensive & by all means get one - but. All a golden rod is, is a low-wattage thermostatically controlled electric heater. It's purpose is to keep moisture from condensing on the cooler metal bits of your guns. It does nothing to reduce the humidity in the interior of the unit it's in. To get that done you either need dessicant packs or an actual de-humidifier.



However, if the unit goes in your home, I presume you've got air conditioning. Therefore, monitor the humidity in your home with one of the easily available & low cost gauges that do that. I suspect that it'll be fine in the home with a golden rod. In other words, if say your home runs 60% humidity instead of the "ideal" 50%, don't obsess over it, your guns will be fine. A garage safe probably won't need to be as pretty either, & you might be able to save some money because of that. However, you will have to give the static internal atmosphere of the unit more thought. There, Houston's ambient conditions will promote rust in short order.



900F

So say I go garage....what exactly would you recommend to get the humidity as low as possible?
I don't mind spending some money if something works...

 

[hso]

If your garage isn't below 60% then build an enclosure around the safe that will take a dehumidifier. A wood framed drywall box is cheap insurance.

 

[CB900F]

Stangs55;

That's pretty good advice, I'd consider it strongly. There's a couple of huge downsides to putting an active dehumidifier in the safe itself. First, it takes up a lot of room you just paid dearly for. Second it demands you put a fairly sizeable hole in the safe for: A. the electrical cord, and B. the drain hose. The common internal solution is dessicant packs. However, they will need constant monitoring and recharging. How often depends on your weather.

As I live in Montana, this isn't my true area of expertise. We're simply not that humid here except on occasion. You might start a thread for S.E. area safe owners that do deal with high humidity commonly & poll them for ideas & tips. I'd be interested myself in getting more information.

900F

 

[njl]

I guess its too late...but is there a reason you didn't consider Browning? Something like

http://www.gunsafes.com/2014-Browni...-Safe-Hells-Canyon-Series-22-43-Gun-Safe.html

They claim as good a fire rating as the Amsec, and its well within your budget. Having dealt with Gunsafes.com somewhat recently, I will say the downsides to them are contrary to what their web site might claim, I don't believe they stock much of anything and products are shipped directly from the manufacturers if/when they're available. When it eventually arrives, it's curb (or if the driver is feeling generous, middle of garage) delivery, and you're on your own getting it exactly where you want it. If it arrives beat up or with minor damage, you can refuse delivery (and start over) or deal with it. On the bright side, shipping is free and for most, no sales tax.

I was really attracted to their DPX door system...but in practice, it only works well with certain long gun shapes...definitely not AR-type rifles.

 

[a1abdj]

On the bright side, shipping is free and for most, no sales tax.

These are two misconceptions. There is no such thing as free shipping. I know this, because every time I ship something, the carrier sends me a bill. Shipping may be included in the price, but it's not free.

Sales tax may not be collected by an out of state vendor, but in the vast majority of cases, you still owe the tax in the state you reside. If you're not reporting these purchases and paying the associated taxes, you're breaking the law. This is one of the reasons the government is trying to figure out how to tax internet sales.

 

[zoom6zoom]

I'm a fan of having multiple smaller safes than one honking huge one. Easier to handle, and if somebody gets into one... they've only gotten into one.

 

[njl]

I'm a fan of having multiple smaller safes than one honking huge one. Easier to handle, and if somebody gets into one... they've only gotten into one.

That's the conclusion I came to when I decided I'd outgrown my original Liberty. At first I was looking at selling the Liberty (at a loss of course) and getting something like a Fatboy, but in the end it made more sense to just get a second slightly larger safe and have two.

As for the shipping not being "free", you're right of course, but with most sites, safe shipping can add hundreds to the price. And technically there is "use tax" but you'd have to be a compulsively honest accountant to even think of / know how to pay it.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I've dealt with fairly recent Browning/Prosteel units and I'll take the AMSEC every time. Unless, of course, Browning has upped their game to the customer, but somehow I doubt it.

900F

 

[njl]

Fella's;



I've dealt with fairly recent Browning/Prosteel units and I'll take the AMSEC every time. Unless, of course, Browning has upped their game to the customer, but somehow I doubt it.



900F

Mine arrived with some blems, the worst of which IMO was a sloppy weld on the bottom that would have torn up the floor had I not ground it even with the rest of the bottom while it was sitting in the garage waiting to be placed inside. Then there was the stupidity of freighting it with all the cantilever shelves hung in it. The ones that broke loose beat up the interior. The ones that didn't bent their hanging tabs. The shelves should have been packed and boxed inside the safe.

 

[atomchaser]

I had my safe in the garage when I lived in Florida for 5+ yrs. With a golden rod and some desiccant, I never had any problems with rust. Just make sure you wipe down your stuff before you put it way. Sweaty hands or drops of sweat from your forehead will definitely cause rust spots.

Also make sure you put some sort of moisture barrier underneath you safe if you put it in the garage. A piece of stall mat from tractor supply or similar places works well.

 

[jaguarxk120]

Have you looked at building a vault room. That way it can house your collection and any ything else. Or better still in a vault room the guns can be displayed in gun racks by type and caliber.

The vault room will e secure and out of the way.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

This is an area I'm quite familiar with. Vault rooms, done properly mind you, cost more than the O.P.'s given budget figure. Yes, it's possible to do something that's a bit better than common home construction procedures for less money, but the big sticking point is thermal protection. Unless you're willing to make a six-side box of concrete, you are going to compromise the thermal protection. I'm not real up to date on concrete prices, but I doubt you're going to get an 8X8X12 foot vault room framed & poured for 4 grand. Also keep in mind that you're going to want the re-bar and good concrete. Drains, no open fire paths in electrical conduit, stuff like that to think about & plan for also.

Then there's the vault room door. Don't build the vault room properly & then hang a therma-true door on it & call it good, 'cause it isn't. A decent B rated vault door will run about 5 grand these days. Ooops, we went over budget on just that facet alone.

900F

 

[entropy]

Buy a door and build the room.

 

[Lord Teapot]

those are some nice safes

me i just have 4 24gun stackons next to eachother in my bedroom, ~$2000 total and good enough for smash and grab and most housefires.

 

[cdk8]

What do you personally want out of a safe?

Do you want mainly fire protection, mainly burglary protection, or both? Is this a gun safe only, or will it house important valuables, documents, heirlooms, etc.? What is the value of the contents? Does your insurance offer a discount if the safe you buy has certain UL ratings? Do you live in an area where fire/police response is especially fast or slow?



Which one is "best" depends on your needs. The three safes you are looking at all heavily favor fire protection over burglary protection, with the AmSec having slightly more armor. The bodies of the Champion and Liberty are vulnerable. At best they will buy a couple of minutes against an unskilled attacker. They would provide virtually no protection against a skilled attacker.

Are the fire ratings from these safes UL tested, or are they tested by a private company? (if it is UL they will make that clear.) The AmSec and Liberty have mediocre fire ratings due to a low test temp. Home fires CAN exceed 1200 F. At the same time, the Champion is light. That tells me the fireproofing is almost certainly inferior to a pour material such as AmSec Drylite (specifically, the Champion probably uses gypsum board.) There are quite a few stories about the AmSec BF's and certain Liberty models being in nasty fires and they generally fare pretty well.

In the event you want more burglary protection, looking away from the gun safes and looking at used security safes may be worthwhile just to see if that is something that you may want to explore further. For example, here is a used TL-30 ISM CashVault for $2,600...that is a serious safe.