Need a little help. My 45s won't chamber in the new gun.

[Smaug]

I'm just at the bullet seating stage of some reloads for my Para GI Expert 1911 in 45 ACP.

I only seated a couple, and was using my pistol barrel to make sure the rounds would drop in and out freely.

The diameter of the handload at the case around the bullet is 0.475".

The diameter of the factory round is 0.469".

I resized the brass with a Lee Carbide die for 45 ACP.

The bullets I'm using are Meister Bullets, 225 gr. flat point, hard cast. They're 0.452" instead of 0.451" for a jacketed bullet. So it is not the bullet that is making the brass six thousandths too big.

I measured the chamber, and it is 0.477" tapering to 0.475".

What's going on here?

This may go without saying for you guys, but I never had problems chambering my reloads for my old Ruger P90, which actually shot very well. It must've had a looser chamber, or something is changed which I'm not thinking about.

 

[918v]

Too much case mouth flare, not enough crimp.

 

[blarby]

You should be tapering down to .472 or .473

Try that, and let us know how it works !

 

[tac_driver]

try .470 to .472 using your barrel as a case gauge, rounds should drop in and fall out when inverted with no resistance.

 

[918v]

How my .45 ACP looks...

Here is a sized case:



This is what it measures:



Here is my case with the case mouth flared:



Here is what it measures with a .452" 200gr LSWC sitting in it:



And here is what the crimp measures as determined by placing the sharp part of the caliper jaws right up to the edge of the case mouth:



This round drops into any chamber. Alls I did is size, prime, expand/flare, charge, seat, and crimp. No FCD was used, just a standard taper crimp die adjusted to remove the flare.

 

[Smaug]

I thought about that, 918v. I added a decent amount of taper crimp, and it didn't help. The case mouth is now shiny, and it still won't chamber.

I was hesitant to do this, because I've read that too much crimp can cause overpressure.

Also, I thought the taper crimp is mostly applied to the mouth, not the whole diameter around the bullet?

 

[Smaug]

A few more posts, since I started typing the last one.

I guess I'll try more crimp to remove the flare!

 

[918v]

Size the case.

Flare the case mouth just enough to accept the bullet without shaving it.

Crimp only to remove the flare.

Basically, you are moving about .003" of brass in totality- (+).002" to get the bullet into the case and (-).001" to crimp. If you overflare the case mouth, you will ruin case tension and have a bulge where the bullet sits. The crimp die will not remove the bulge as it only deals with the case mouth. What you are describing, i.e. the crimper making your whole case shiny is indicative of you overexpanding the case.

 

[LiveLife]

Dang, nice job 918v!

 

[Smaug]

What you are describing, i.e. the crimper making your whole case shiny is indicative of you overexpanding the case.

No, only the top corner of the case mouth is made shiny from crimping.

Geez, I hope these 100 primed and charged cases are not ruined. I didn't flare too much. Just enough so the bullets drop into the case just past the point where they are beveled at their base.

 

[Walkalong]

If everything is right, perhaps the O.A.L. is too long for your barrel. Try the test in the link. Nice pics 918v.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

 

[FullEffect1911]

Two things come to mind for me. I have a Springfield Range Officer that won't chamber normal C.O.A.L. xtp rounds. The leade on that barrel is very short and the bullet itself needs to be seated further in order for there not to be interference. There is no issue using round nose profile bullets, just ones with a shoulder.

The second option and one that causes no small amount of controversy, is to use a Lee factory crimp die. I use them in all my pistol loads and have not had a problem with function or accuracy. No matter what I try it always seems like lead bullets bulge the brass for me just a bit and no amount of tweaking has solved that for me completely. Would the rounds still function for me if i didn't use the FCD? Yes, but I consider the FCD to be cheap insurance.

 

[918v]

I don't understand how you are getting .475" for your loaded round when I got .473". I suppose your brand of brass may have thicker walls. How are you arriving at your chamber measurements? Are you using a fired case? If so, you have to account for springback, about .001". But even with that, your chamber would be severely undersized at .478" tapering to .476".

 

[918v]

Maybe you overcrimped and buckled the case?

Measure the case diameter at the bullet prior to crimping.

 

[Smaug]

Would the rounds still function for me if i didn't use the FCD? Yes, but I consider the FCD to be cheap insurance.

If they would still function without your using the FCD, then this is probably not going to help me.

 

[Smaug]

If everything is right, perhaps the O.A.L. is too long for your barrel. Try the test in the link. Nice pics 918v.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

Mine is sticking way further out than the right-most illustration. The OAL doesn't seem to be the problem, since the bullet is getting nowhere near the lands of the rifling. It seems to be a diameter issue.

Maybe you overcrimped and buckled the case?

No, because on the first round, I set it for no crimp, and it still wouldn't fit. After that, I applied a bit of crimp, to try to take out the flaring. still no good, but a little better.

I don't understand how you are getting .475" for your loaded round when I got .473".

Me either! The only thing I can think of is that I applied too much flare, and when I loaded the bullet and crimped it, the crimp didn't go as far down the case as the flare.

I suppose your brand of brass may have thicker walls.

I doubt it. I'm using mixed brass, and I tried 4 different kinds and they're all about the same.

How are you arriving at your chamber measurements? Are you using a fired case? If so, you have to account for springback, about .001". But even with that, your chamber would be severely undersized at .478" tapering to .476".

I'm using a fired case, but it has been resized

I guess tonight when I get home, I'll try applying more taper crimp to get the flare out completely. I don't think that'll work, but if it does, I'll be happy.

Failing that, I'll load a new round from scratch with very little flare, and see how it ends up. If it works, then it points to too much flare. So much that it was un-correctable without taking the rounds apart and starting again. Only 4 of them have bullets in them, so it is just a huge waste of time.

 

[918v]

No, because on the first round, I set it for no crimp, and it still wouldn't fit. After that, I applied a bit of crimp, to try to take out the flaring. still no good, but a little better.

An uncrimped round will not chamber, that's normal because the flare on the case mouth, though slight, makes the overall diameter of the round too big.

Applying a little crimp is a bit ambiguous because we're talking about only needing .001" and that is too little to see with the naked eye.

Do us a favor: make a dummy round by the numbers-

Size the case and measure the body diameter at the case mouth.

Flare the case mouth and seat the bullet without crimping. If you are using a seat/crimp die, back it out and screw in the seater stem as far as it will go, then seat the bullet without any crimp.

Now measure the diameter of the case at the bullet, not the case mouth. So place the caliper jaws .3" south of the case mouth.

When I get back from work, we'll see whassup.

 

[jcwit]

Question, do your resized empty cases fit flush in the barrel as they should?

 

[Smaug]

Jcwit: I'll check that too.

918v: Will do.

 

[jcwit]

If your resized cases drop into the chamber as they should and the bullet is not keeping the finished round from chambering then just keep adjusting your crimp till the round chambers. Do this alittle at a time.

To check the bullet its self as to preventing the round to chamber use Dykem or a Sharpie pen to check for when the bullet touches and where.

 

[FullEffect1911]

If they would still function without your using the FCD, then this is probably not going to help me.

Please allow me to clarify. I'm saying most of my rounds don't need the FCD, but if one round is problematic the FCD will catch it and bring it back to where it supposed to be. The chamber in your gun may be tight and/or in need of a chamber reamer.

If your resized cases drop into the chamber as they should and the bullet is not keeping the finished round from chambering then just keep adjusting your crimp till the round chambers. Do this alittle at a time.

To check the bullet its self as to preventing the round to chamber use Dykem or a Sharpie pen to check for when the bullet touches and where.

This is all good advice here.

I suspect the lead rounds are bulging the cases after being seated and adjusting the crimp won't solve that exactly. What jcwit mentioned will give us more information for diagnosing the problem.

FWIW the FCD will resize the bulge in the case that lead rounds sometimes make when being seated.

 

[jcwit]

Walkalong needs to hop in here about your problem. I went thru this a few years ago after I put a match barrel on my Kimber and started to use a Lee FCD. Walkalong lead me thru the whole process and now the FCD sits in a Misc. drawer with a tag on it identifing it so sometime down the line the kids MIGHT know what to do with it or whats its for.

 

[Walkalong]

Ya'll are doing just fine.

 

[Smaug]

Well, guys, it's done.

What I did was to seat the bullet with zero crimp, then back out the seater plug and increase the crimp little by little until they fit.

This worked for about 85 out of 100 of them. All the ones that it didn't work on, I set aside.

I noticed that all 12 of those that didn't fit were Top Brass brass. I tightened up the crimp a bit more for those, and all of them fit except 3. I wasn't comfortable with crimping them any tighter, so I'll just write those off.

To tell the truth, I'm a bit nervous about these rounds. I've never crimped rounds this tight before.

 

[jcwit]

Doubt very much you have anything to worry about. The 45 ACP is not a high pressure round.

Tip, make up a dummy round with the settings that work the best. I use steel cases for this as I know I don't reload steel. I make a dummy round for every bullet style and caliber i reload for. Store the dummy rounds in the box with the dies. Makes set-up easy next time.