Need a little help with .38 special/357mag loads(Not your usual questions..)

[Gik-tal]

If you want to try something a little difftent, look at 35 caliber rifle bullets in the 200 grain range. they measure out at .358 and with about 3.5 grains of IMR-700X behind it will go subsonic just fine. I would think something like a Hornady LEVERevolution Bullets in 200 grain wpould work out fine.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

That would be Hodgdon, not Hornady.

Thanks. My brain must have gone AWOL again.

 

[MichaelK]

"I'm having a real hard time finding any .38 special rifle data.......Any one know of any cowboy action reloading forums I can dig around in???"

I've chronographed my +P .38 special load in my Marlin rifle at 1265 fps. The same load in my 6" Security Six is 1056fps. It's Lyman's 358477 SWC pushed by 8.0 grains of Blue Dot.

For .357 loads with the same bullet I'm going 1400 fps in the Ruger and 1809 fps in the Marlin.

 

[zxcvbob]

I posted new data with "long barrel friction" compensation. (above) The data looks much closer to what I originally expected.

 

[fistybum]

So far I have just been loading 4.1gr trailboss w/ 158gr rnfp Missouri bullets. Real pleasant to shoot. Little dirty though.

 

[fecmech]

Fisty--I've skimmed this thread and I think you may have one big problem with your Rossi. If I understand suppressors, the idea is heavy and subsonic. If your Rossi is one of the newer ones it has a 1 in 30" rifling twist which is not conducive to stabilizing heavy bullets at slow speeds. My Rossi .357 will shoot std 158 gr bullets @ 1050 fps very accurately at 50 yds (1.5-2" groups). Those same groups open up to over a foot with many bullets tumbling at 100 yds. Push the same slugs up to 1400-1500 no problem but that doesn't help you. As long as you are talking close range you may get lucky.

Ps. Here is some load data that may help you. this is chrono data from a Rossi 20" .357.

Federal Mag case,mag tech sp primer, 5.1 grs of Unique, 158 gr RN lead=1071 fps. Es was 39 fps SD was 13 fps.

RP Mag Case--4.2 grs bullseye, mag tech sp primer, 158 RN lead=1069 fps
ES was 44 fps and sd was 13 fps.

If you back off a couple tenths on this load data you will be pretty uniform and subsonic. Hope this helps.

 

[lwknight]

I must be the only one that likes WSF in 38/357 with 158 grain bullets. 5.0 to 6.0 grains will get you about 1000 fps and is slow enough for a rifle. It is a very forgiving powder and can make magnum loads very smooth. I'm not posting for that because there is almost no publicized load data for this powder out so the risk is my own.

I know that WSF is not worth beans in 38spl using 110 grain bullets but it rocks in the smaller case 9mm

 

[fecmech]

LW--I have used WSF in both the .38 spl and 9MM, it tracks Alliant Herco exactly in those 2 cartridges. It's a very good powder in the .38 and a good mid-range powder in the .357 Mag.

 

[zxcvbob]

WSF also tracks Herco exactly in .45 Colt, and at least closely in .357 Magnum. I would be using it exclusively in .357 Magnum with cast bullets (save my 2400 for loading .30 Carbine), except I fell into a great deal on AA#7 two years ago and bought a lifetime supply of that.

 

[fistybum]

Thanks for your input!

Hey thanks guys! I've loaded up about 800 158gr 4.1gr trailboss loads. I've shot a couple hundred of them. They are quiet and pleasant to shoot. I haven't really tested them on paper(more of a beer can hunter....) Before going shooting this weekend I think I'm gonna load some bullseye and 231 loads. I'll be using laser cast 158gr lswc. I just bought the new Lyman manual and the bastards dont list a 158gr lswc ....
They list:
155gr semiwadcutter looking bullet:
bullseye start 2.8 ,max 4.0,+p 4.4
231 start 3.5,max4.7, +p 5.0

and a 158gr rnfp looking bullet
bullseye start 3.0, max 3.4
231 start 3.6, max 4.0

Why such a difference in #?????
Would 4gr of bullseye or 231 be too much for a start point???
Any idea where they will start to be transsonic/supersonic?? How much speed gain is a 16" barrel going to give me over 4" published data??

Thanks again! Fisty

 

[fecmech]

Fisty--Supersonic is aprox 1100 fps. the data I gave you above for Bullseye and unique should put you just below the speed of sound with a 158 gr bullet. Using 231, 4.8-4.9 grs will put you in the same ball park. If you get a sonic crack from the bullet back off a tenth or so on the powder. All the data I gave you is from a Rossi 20" barrel. I get essentially the same results from a 20" winchester barrel and a 24" Rossi barrel. Your 16" won't be much different,Bullseye,231,Unique are all done burning long before the 16" mark. Good luck. Nick

None of these loads are anywhere near max in the .357, starting at 4 grs is fine.

 

[fistybum]

Fecmech, thanks! That is the kind of advice from personal experience I was looking for!

 

[fistybum]

Hey,Fecmech, Do you get better accuracy from lighter bullets at these speeds??

 

[Remo-99]

Quote:
Since Hornady started producing W231 Hornady has said

That would be Hodgdon, not Hornady.

yes, and also St Marks is still producing the powder (W231/HP38), just that Hodgdon has taken over the marketing of W231, as well, from Winchester (still using Winchester brand though).

Trailboss has been great for the lswc ,but I don't understand why max load is the same for 38 special and 357 mag...4.2 gr...

That's about the most you can fit into a 38/357 case without compressing TB, once you start compressing it, pressures start to become erradic and accuracy strays out the window.

If you want heavier you'll need to cast them yourself or be prepared to spend a little more

plus1, and 158gr LSWC at 900-1000fps will usually pass through a target the size of a coyote at suitable ranges and the heavier 180gr-200gr will allow for extending those ranges slightly.
The point type of the hardcast bullet used will be another factor for sub-sonic rounds, as hardcast lead will not expand at the low velocities and having a wide meplat such is on a LSWC or LRNFP will contribe more to tissue damage than bullet weight will.