Need a S&W expert

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There were always reports of issues with the K-frame M19, with lots of magnum rounds.
In addition to cylinder dimensions, have to think that there are differences in heat treatment.
Just buy a factory magnum. Model 10s are nice guns as-is.
Moon
 
Bwana John said:
M-10 cylinder length 1.54”
M-19 cylinder length 1.62”

357 mag overall length 1.59”
Click to expand...

This raises a question inn my mind. You specify the model 19 cylinder as 0.003 inch longer than the 357 Magnum cartridge. Years ago we were loading 357 mag brass with 173 grain cast bullets to a fairly long OAL. They chambered nicely in my M19 but were longer than the cylinder on my Python. The Python cylinder is clearly long enough for a factory loaded 357. Makes me think the M19 cylinder is longer. The original M&P was designed to accept the 32-20 which is longer than a 38 Special.
 
unspellable said:
This raises a question inn my mind. You specify the model 19 cylinder as 0.003 inch longer than the 357 Magnum cartridge. Years ago we were loading 357 mag brass with 173 grain cast bullets to a fairly long OAL. They chambered nicely in my M19 but were longer than the cylinder on my Python. The Python cylinder is clearly long enough for a factory loaded 357. Makes me think the M19 cylinder is longer. The original M&P was designed to accept the 32-20 which is longer than a 38 Special.
Click to expand...
I have some 165 gr .357 Magnum loads that will not work in my Model 19, 13 or 66’es with recessed chambers, but they will work in my 686+ and Dan Wesson 15-2’s. I learned the ol’, “check the fit before you take them to the range and find out the hard way” trick. ;)

Stay safe.
 
Anchorite said:
Didn’t Jim Cirillo use a Model 10 modified with a M19 cylinder? I guess the cylinder window was the same between the 10 and the 19?
Click to expand...
The biggest issue with swapping cylinders involve the extension of the barrel/forcing cone into the window on the .38’s vs the .357’s.

I pulled out the Model 66-2 .357 and Model 67 no dash .38 and took a couple of pictures showing these differences. For those who may not be familiar, both the 66 and 67 are stainless K-frames that were made for many years as ideal law enforcement and security guard guns due to the size, weight, power and “less-maintenance” stainless construction. The Model 66 is the stainless brother of the Model 19 and the Model 67 is the stainless brother of the Model 15. (The Model 64 is the stainless Model 10 .38, the Model 65 is the stainless Model 13 .357.)

The 67 has a shorter, non-recessed chamber cylinder, so there is a larger gap at the rear to fit the rims as well as a shorter overall length. This requires the barrel extension at the forcing cone to be set back into the window a tad more to keep a standard barrel/cylinder gap.

67 at top, 66 at bottom:

73EE7E7B-7D9A-4486-B2B3-274F2E9DA33F.jpeg

Side by side the small gap at the rear and the shorter barrel extension is seen on the 66 at top:

BE4E9A68-C7D7-4D10-91F9-AC80B9B12940.jpeg

A closer view of the 67:

71FE1927-DC2F-4B49-A11D-72E9D13A3BCB.jpeg

And the 66:

FBF54352-75BC-4124-B0B0-6D0C2EEF0BFA.jpeg

So any swapping of 10 cylinder for a 19 cylinder (or a 67-66) would probably require pulling the barrel and recutting the extension/forcing cone to fit correctly.

Stay safe.
 
gasmandave said:
I have my eye on a S&W mod 10-8. Can a cylinder change be ok to convert it to 357 mag. Just asking for a friend (me)
Click to expand...
There are several "it depends" to consider. First the M10 frame has to be the heavy barrel version. The .357 cylinder is longer, but the length increase over the .38 Spl. barrel is at the rear of the cylinder, The .357 cylinder has recessed chambers, which fully enclose the case rim, the .38 Spl. does not, and the throat on the magnum cylinder is cut for a longer case, so it will chamber either .38 Spl. or .357M. You'd still need a little gunsmithing to fit the cylinder due to production differences in the older guns; you might have too tight a cylinder/forcing cone gap, or one too open. There was a production run of M10-6 made in .357 Magnum, which became the M13. The M10-8 can be either a heavy barrel or taper (pencil barrel) type, and the tapered barrel frame is too light for magnum use. Beyond that, I believe the .357 versions of the M10, and the M13's have a heat-treated frame for additional strength. Keep the M10 as-is, and look for a M13 or a M19.
 
unspellable said:
This raises a question inn my mind. You specify the model 19 cylinder as 0.003 inch longer than the 357 Magnum cartridge. Years ago we were loading 357 mag brass with 173 grain cast bullets to a fairly long OAL. They chambered nicely in my M19 but were longer than the cylinder on my Python. The Python cylinder is clearly long enough for a factory loaded 357. Makes me think the M19 cylinder is longer. The original M&P was designed to accept the 32-20 which is longer than a 38 Special.
Click to expand...


The Model 19 cylinder is in fact longer than the Moddel 27 and Model 28 cylinders. Only the Model 19 and the Model 586 wiill handle the 173 grain SWC. (And, of course the stainless versions of thoae guns.)

Bob Wright
 
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I am NOT an expert, but I have suffered through some part swapping drama. Even if one were to swap cylinder with same model PN, the timing of each chamber will change significantly. At Springfield (or soon, Maryville) each extractor tooth is custom rigged with a bearing surface in resp to ea cylinder stop notch. Very microscopic window of tolerance here (even more than chamber to forcing cone) between an out of battery chamber and stuff binding up, where between the two is where to be. Cyl stop grove location differences of just 0.002” will have a major influence on the carry-up for that shot.

Sometimes though, you can get lucky
 
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Prior to S&W introducing the Model 13, fixed sight K frame chambered in 357 Magnum, they built a variation of the model 10-6 in 357. Same as the 38 S&W Special revolver but in 357.

Kevin
 
20221222_114545.jpg I have a Ruger Police Service Six mfg. In the 1980s.
It is a less common version in .38 Special, at the time the Security Six series guns which this was a part of were all designed on the .357 mostly. In no way is this gun rare or unusual, it's just far less common chambered in .38 Special.
Some were downgraded to .38 Only, mostly for LE or security orders where .357 Magnum was deemed unnecessary.

From all of my research, the only difference in the gun is 1) The cylinders are not bored to .357 Mag depth. 2) The rollmark on the barrel.
THATS IT.
I've heard of people dropping in a 357 crane and cylinder in these, but I don't see the need to modify it. That's why I have other .357 Wheelguns.......but....

....What I do is I handload .38/44 powered loads in .38 Special Brass (nickel plated for identification) and in boxes that say "Ruger Only" For this gun.
.38/44 Loads are far more powerful than .38+P and only about 7% less power than. 357 Magnums when loaded to full potential.......I don't go even that High with these, I push 158gr bullets to about 1,200 fps in these, which are plllllleeeeenty spicy a load out of a 4" service revolver as it is, .357 Magnum or Not. They are accurate and pleasant to shoot, and they are in 357 Magnum Class. I load these in small batches, and try to shoot what I load so these aren't sitting around getting dusty and......hopefully never accidently find their way into a J frame, or old K frame, air-weight 38, etc. Could be a bad day....

I don't recommend this (what I explained above)
In general, if it's labeled .38 Special, it means .38 Special, period. I have no idea the technical differences between say a modern Model 10 and say a M-13. Smith and Wesson has an entirely different approach to manufacturing as the Rugers of the time period. More hidden differences than the rollmark and cylinder are highly likely.
 
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