Need Experts to Help Solve Problem

[frjeff]

First batch of reloaded .380ACP rounds all fired and cycled wonderfully. Found my favored load to be 3.0gr - 3.1gr of HP38 under the RMR .355 95gr FMJ.
Thought I’d make a few dummy loads this afternoon to be bench benchmarks for occasional die re-measures, etc.
Made five dummy loads at 0.9800 COAL.
Tried light crimp on seating die and on FCD. No difference.
Problem is as seen in pics Cartridge will not drop fully into case measure tool.
Please share thoughts on what I am doing wrong here. Did not have this issue on first test rounds and I don’t think my breech lock dies moved themselves.

 

[Blue68f100]

Test with only sized brass 1st. Then start adding in your steps till it fails. Then you know which process caused the problem.

If the picture contained a bullet that crimped. I think you buckled the case at the base.

 

[jmorris]

^ nailed it right off the bat!

 

[CQB45ACP]

Guess #1—did you drop the empty case in gauge after you ran it through decapping/sizing die? You should do that to ensure/assure the die is adjusted properly. My guess is it wasn’t adjusted enough to permit the case to fully size.

 

[frjeff]

Guess #1—did you drop the empty case in gauge after you ran it through decapping/sizing die? You should do that to ensure/assure the die is adjusted properly. My guess is it wasn’t adjusted enough to permit the case to fully size.

Yes, after I read the first few replies, I decaped and sized another 5 cases.
They were dropped in and out of the gauge easily and fully seated.
Then I lightly flared the cases.
I then set the bullets to a smidge below 0.9800” COAL
I had the bullet setting die set to just crimp enough to smooth the flair.

And, again - they will not drop fully into the gauge.
HOWEVER, they drop perfectly into the chamber in my BERSA THUNDER!
I am perplexed.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Yes, after I read the first few replies, I decaped and sized another 5 cases.
They were dropped in and out of the gauge easily and fully seated.
Then I lightly flared the cases.
I then set the bullets to a smidge below 0.9800” COAL
I had the bullet setting die set to just crimp enough to smooth the flair.

And, again - they will not drop fully into the gauge.
HOWEVER, they drop perfectly into the chamber in my BERSA THUNDER!
I am perplexed.

Guess you learned as I did…gauges aren’t barrels.

 

[frjeff]

Guess you learned as I did…gauges aren’t barrels.

That’s for sure. Thanks for the reply.
Problem is, it gives me pause insofar as going forward with a quantity of real cartridges, May need to just build a few and do another range test. They cycle with hand racking, so I presume they would cycle fine in the Bersa.
Once you learned this gauge versus barrel issue, what was your course of action?

 

[CQB45ACP]

That’s for sure. Thanks for the reply.
Problem is, it gives me pause insofar as going forward with a quantity of real cartridges, May need to just build a few and do another range test. They cycle with hand racking, so I presume they would cycle fine in the Bersa.
Once you learned this gauge versus barrel issue, what was your course of action?

Bought a different gauge (seriously) and flared less, in fact I flare so little I don’t even need to crimp 9mm anymore.

BUT, I know nothing about seating/crimping with same die, nor anything about .380, nor Bersa.

 

[higgite]

1. Is the gauge clean?
2. What is the case mouth OD after seating and crimping?
3. The Lyman Pistol Max gauge is sized to SAAMI max dimensions for the cartridge. SAAMI minimum chamber dimension are larger than max cartridge dimensions. The cartridge may be larger than SAAMI max cartridge dimensions, but still be smaller than your pistol’s chamber.
4. If your gauge is clean and the cartridge won’t fit in it but will fit your pistol’s chamber, some dimension of the cartridge is larger than SAAMI cartridge spec but smaller than SAAMI chamber spec. Maybe not a big deal.
5. SAAMI specs are intended to assure that any factory ammo made to SAAMI standards will fit any pistol chambered to SAAMI standards. If your ammo works in your pistol to your satisfaction and you don’t care whether or not it will work in pistols other than that one, you don’t have a problem. Although I would use the pistol barrel to plunk test any rounds that failed the gauge test so I had no surprises with ill fitting ammo at the range.
ymmv

 

[conan32120]

Just to be safe clean the inside of your Gauge, sometimes something unwanted comes off your brass and gums up the gauge

 

[frjeff]

Tomorrow I will clean my case gauge and reduce my tiny crimp to nil.
And, I will use less of a flair before seating bullet.
I also just now ordered another brand case gauge.

 

[reddog81]

I have 2 9mm gauges. I can create rounds that will chamber in one gauge and not the other. I can create rounds that work in a dozen guns but not the gauge. I can create rounds that will fit into the gauge but not work I a gun. I have stopped using the gauges….

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm not trying to be offensive or condescending, but...

in the picture you posted, it looks like you've inserted the cartridge into the gauge backwards (from the wrong side). I say this because my gauge has a groove machined onto the "top" to allow the rim to seat flush...and I'm not seeing it in your picture

 

[Otto]

I also just now ordered another brand case gauge.

Uh, does factory ammo drop into the Lyman gauge? There’s little reason to throw money at the problem. And for starters, I’d ditch the FCD….you don’t need it.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Take a caliper and measure the case mouth on a factory round that works in your gun, and compare it to your finished round.

Uh, does factory ammo drop into the Lyman gauge? There’s little reason to throw money at the problem. And for starters, I’d ditch the FCD….you don’t need it.

I disagree. They can help in some scenarios.

 

[frjeff]

Tomorrow I will clean my case gauge and reduce my tiny crimp to nil.
And, I will use less of a flair before seating bullet.
I also just now ordered another brand case gauge.

(

I'm not trying to be offensive or condescending, but...

in the picture you posted, it looks like you've inserted the cartridge into the gauge backwards (from the wrong side). I say this because my gauge has a groove machined onto the "top" to allow the rim to seat flush...and I'm not seeing it in your picture

I'm not trying to be offensive or condescending, but...

in the picture you posted, it looks like you've inserted the cartridge into the gauge backwards (from the wrong side). I say this because my gauge has a groove machined onto the "top" to allow the rim to seat flush...and I'm not seeing it in your picture

You are correct, it does not show the machined groove in the top, but I assure you it is there. Poor pic

Uh, does factory ammo drop into the Lyman gauge? There’s little reason to throw money at the problem. And for starters, I’d ditch the FCD….you don’t need it.

Yes, factory ammo slides fully in and out.

 

[WeekendReloader]

I have this issue when loading my cast and powder coated lead bullets. The bullets are oversized by a few thousandths of an inch and the completed round does not drop into gauge. It fits the chamber and shoots well, so it is what it is.

 

[frjeff]

Take a caliper and measure the case mouth on a factory round that works in your gun, and compare it to your finished round.


I disagree. They can help in some scenarios.

Did some measuring this morning of case mouth (just below lip) on factory and my latest four dummies:

Fed Am Eagle FMJ .3715
Blazer FMJ. .3720
PMC Bronze. FMJ. .3730
Sig. FMJ. .3735
Sig V Crown. .3750

Mine. .3740
My Resized Cases .3680

My finished dummies appear to have a bit of flair left at the lip, however they measure as stated above. But that lip is catching on the gauge and going no deeper, unlike the first batch of dummies.
Thinking maybe too much flair? Or, crimping wrongly?

 

[higgite]

I would suggest, if you are using a combo seating and crimping die, back the seating stem out (you can reset it later), then screw the die in 1/8 turn and run one of your dummies through it again and see if it passes the gauge. Rinse and repeat as necessary until it does. Then reset the seating stem and make a new dummy and test it. Just be sure you don’t run the die in so far that it interferes with shell holder/ram travel at top of stroke.

If you’re using a stand alone crimping die with no seating stem, well, you know the drill.

 

[FROGO207]

So do all the factory rounds you measured fit the gage?

 

[frjeff]

So do all the factory rounds you measured fit the gage?

Yes

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Did some measuring this morning of case mouth (just below lip) on factory and my latest four dummies:

Fed Am Eagle FMJ .3715
Blazer FMJ. .3720
PMC Bronze. FMJ. .3730
Sig. FMJ. .3735
Sig V Crown. .3750

Mine. .3740
My Resized Cases .3680

My finished dummies appear to have a bit of flair left at the lip, however they measure as stated above. But that lip is catching on the gauge and going no deeper, unlike the first batch of dummies.
Thinking maybe too much flair? Or, crimping wrongly?

What did you change between the first batch - which fit perfectly - and this batch - which didn’t?
Whatever you changed, change back. Never change a process that works for you. Especially not because a bunch of strangers on the internet say you should.

 

[FROGO207]

Then look at the area that the round stops entering the gage on your round and the factory samples. There should be an obvious difference. I rarely use anything but a barrel to set up my ammo. And when doing that use my firearm with the tightest chamber to size to for pistol ammo.

 

[CQB45ACP]

1. Is the gauge clean?
2. What is the case mouth OD after seating and crimping?
3. The Lyman Pistol Max gauge is sized to SAAMI max dimensions for the cartridge. SAAMI minimum chamber dimension are larger than max cartridge dimensions. The cartridge may be larger than SAAMI max cartridge dimensions, but still be smaller than your pistol’s chamber.
4. If your gauge is clean and the cartridge won’t fit in it but will fit your pistol’s chamber, some dimension of the cartridge is larger than SAAMI cartridge spec but smaller than SAAMI chamber spec. Maybe not a big deal.
5. SAAMI specs are intended to assure that any factory ammo made to SAAMI standards will fit any pistol chambered to SAAMI standards. If your ammo works in your pistol to your satisfaction and you don’t care whether or not it will work in pistols other than that one, you don’t have a problem. Although I would use the pistol barrel to plunk test any rounds that failed the gauge test so I had no surprises with ill fitting ammo at the range.
ymmv

Good info and reminded me…several years ago I was annoyed that I had great difficulty getting cartridges to pass my Hornady gauge only to learn it was a “case” gauge not a “cartridge” gauge. Bought a Wilson cartridge gauge and I was golden.

So, know your gauges.

 

[frjeff]

I would suggest, if you are using a combo seating and crimping die, back the seating stem out (you can reset it later), then screw the die in 1/8 turn and run one of your dummies through it again and see if it passes the gauge. Rinse and repeat as necessary until it does. Then reset the seating stem and make a new dummy and test it. Just be sure you don’t run the die in so far that it interferes with shell holder/ram travel at top of stroke.

If you’re using a stand alone crimping die with no seating stem, well, you know the drill.

Well, that did the trick!
I did reduce my flair a bit, made sure bullet was straight, followed your steps - and walaaa! All fit the case gauge and barrel perfectly. FCD in plastic case now.
Think I’ll produce a few real rounds now with my preferred powder load and then hit the range.

Thank you everyone for your continued assists and encouragement !!