Need info: Browning Hi Power
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johnmcl
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The OP was looking for a recommendation on a range and HD gun. I'm hoping you have the sense of the advice. In short, get thee to Stephen Camp's web page, and read every word you can find there. His thoughts are mature, well reasoned, and digestable.
From there, I believe you'll find yourself in the market for a Mark III. My own opinion is that with middle of the road power 9mm ammo, you and the gun will have a long and happy life together. The BHP is one serious gun, and I do mean serious.
9mm ---> I am of the opinion that HRT went to another option from the BHP as they were not happy with the inherent accuracy due to the notoriously crappy trigger out of the box. The business case was that gunsmithing 250 individual BHPs to an acceptable trigger status was considerably more expensive in time and money than going to another gun. Your theory about longevity may have had a role, but I think the trigger induced accuracy problems were the primary motivation.
From there, I believe you'll find yourself in the market for a Mark III. My own opinion is that with middle of the road power 9mm ammo, you and the gun will have a long and happy life together. The BHP is one serious gun, and I do mean serious.
9mm ---> I am of the opinion that HRT went to another option from the BHP as they were not happy with the inherent accuracy due to the notoriously crappy trigger out of the box. The business case was that gunsmithing 250 individual BHPs to an acceptable trigger status was considerably more expensive in time and money than going to another gun. Your theory about longevity may have had a role, but I think the trigger induced accuracy problems were the primary motivation.
JTQ
Member
I realize this is the Federal Government we are talking about, but what bean counter would buy off on it being cheaper to buy 250 new Springfield Professionals (or Les Baer customs) than simply tune up the triggers on pistols they already owned. I suspect there was another reason.
blackrussian
Member
I am using a MKIII as a range gun, while I look for the right CZ to pop up.
Here she is, with some upgrades.
Here she is, with some upgrades.
JTQ
Member
Much more plausible.
There were even more hidden cost to the Professionals. In order to keep them running, they had to add top tier 1911 gunsmiths to their payroll.
While the P-35 triggers are inherently horrible, I'm fairly confident that Novak's shop removed the Magazine disconnect when they modified them
It isn't a frame issue, it's a slide issue, that is why the Mk III has a reinforced slideWow... all these folks talking about service life being short on the BHP. I didn't realize an all steel gun had gotten so fragil. All steel BHP - Alloy Beretta...Hum? Maybe my old BHP will last as long as the M9 does for the military.
I think that is an overly broad generalization concerning the trigger that is just plain untrue. I've had new MK III Hi Powers with triggers varying from OK to stellar, out of the box. Yes, they can be heavy, and a bit gritty at first. Often, some use or slight tuning will make them serviceable if not excellent.
Also, as you say the MK III has a beefier slide, and stronger cast frame, so whatever shortcomings it had have been remedied.
Generalizations are, by definition, broad...that is what makes them generalizations. I'm curious how one gets from overly broad to untrue, While it might be untrue of a limited number of examples, the generalization is what makes it valid...the sheer number of threads advocating improving the trigger pull by removing the mag safety would seem to be addition validation. Why would folks improve what is already, "OK to stellar"
I'm not sure why you seem so defensive about a known feature of the P-35. Perhaps our definitions differ based on our experiences. Would you offer another model of handgun with a MSRP of ~$1k which has a worst out of the box SAO trigger?
sirgilligan
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A Browning Hi Power is an excellent choice. It won't matter if you beat it up a little, it is not fragile. If you can find one that has already got some holster wear or some nicks and dings you will save a little money.
I have Hi Powers and I have one of the CZ 75 family members. Love them all.
I have Hi Powers and I have one of the CZ 75 family members. Love them all.
The P7 is the only H&K with a SAO trigger
The P9S, HK-4, USP, P2000, P30 and HK45 are all DA/SA or LEM; the VP-70 was DAO
The question was asking about a SAO trigger, as on the P-35; comparing apples vs. apples
The three MK III Hi Powers I have owned have had crisp, albeit heavy triggers (due to the the overly heavy hammer spring) right out of the box. I left the mag disconnect in, and did not do any trigger work. The SA triggers were excellent, and better than my stock Springfield Milspec 1911.
I know this is just MY experience, and I know that others have experienced less than stellar Hi Power triggers, but with a little work, they can have great triggers.
Should FN produce a pistol with a consistantly, excellent SA trigger for an MSRP of $1K? Absolutely, but you can acquire a mint, used BHP for much less and with a small amount of effort or $ have a great, all steel pistol, with a superb SA trigger. The BHP with or without mods is a great choice for an all purpose 9MM.
The P7 was the only one with a good trigger..
I was aware the others are DA/SA their SA still sucks regardless of the method used to get there..
Besides 1911's and possibly Sigs 220 SAO I don't know of too many SAO guns in that price range to answer your question. I haven't shot the Sig to offer an opinion on it..
Dad carried a battlefield pickup P35 in North Africa and Italy during WW2. Actually, he raided a German supply truck and packed off enough parts to assemble 3 pistols and a goodly supply of spare parts. When VE was declared and the guys thought they were going to invade Japan, Dad had a P35, a dozen mags, spare barrel , some springs, and 1000 rounds of ammo in his duffle bag.
That was one of the reasons I bought an FM Hi-Power copy decades ago. I do like the pistol but got very tired of people asking me if I knew my holstered pistol was cocked. When I took mine to C & S shop for smoothing up, they told me that those pistols were actually better quality than some of the production runs from Browning(FN). They slicked it up and dovetailed in a better front sight (and then I switched to a DA/SA pistol).
I would not hesitate to stake my life on a P35 but I don't use +P ammo in mine simply because it's virtually irreplaceable.
That was one of the reasons I bought an FM Hi-Power copy decades ago. I do like the pistol but got very tired of people asking me if I knew my holstered pistol was cocked. When I took mine to C & S shop for smoothing up, they told me that those pistols were actually better quality than some of the production runs from Browning(FN). They slicked it up and dovetailed in a better front sight (and then I switched to a DA/SA pistol).
I would not hesitate to stake my life on a P35 but I don't use +P ammo in mine simply because it's virtually irreplaceable.
Orion8472
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I had just put my FN Hi Power on gunbroker to sell it, . . . but ended the auction early [no one had bid] and decided to keep it. The mag disconnect had been removed before I bought it, so it has a very nice trigger. One of my most accurate 9mm guns. I probably made a good choice is ending the auction. It actually carries pretty well hidden under my shirt.
Certaindeaf
member
I've "worn out" two brand new made in Belgium Browning Hi-Powers.. both with beer can target sights. It took right at 50,000 rounds of pretty hot handloads each.. many (most?) that were pretty darn hot.. way off the chart. I was young. The slides developed a hairline crack right at the top of the ejection port. They work plenty good.
I shoot +P+ etc through an old and perfect 3000 round same as above model that I got brand new long ago.
I shoot +P+ etc through an old and perfect 3000 round same as above model that I got brand new long ago.
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JR24
Member
I pondered the used market for a bit, then decided to shell out the cash for a new MKIII a while back. I really love that gun.
My MKIII's trigger, out of the box, is pretty heavy but breaks very clean and consistent. Its very accurate for me (first 3 shots ever were in the 10-ring, which for me is unusual) and has never had any issues; though only through a few hundred rounds.
Size, for me, is excellent for concealing. Its, I think, about the same as a CCO 1911 and will fit most commander size 1911 holsters. The slightly shorter grip really helps conceal for me. Ultimately my issue with CCW with it is the same as my 1911's, I carry at about 2 o'clock and the hammer jabs my side constantly, which is annoying.
There's another issue that many have that has not been mentioned. For those with large hands and high grips, it'll tend to bite the webbing of the hand. I have small hands and never have an issue, but some I know do.
My MKIII's trigger, out of the box, is pretty heavy but breaks very clean and consistent. Its very accurate for me (first 3 shots ever were in the 10-ring, which for me is unusual) and has never had any issues; though only through a few hundred rounds.
Size, for me, is excellent for concealing. Its, I think, about the same as a CCO 1911 and will fit most commander size 1911 holsters. The slightly shorter grip really helps conceal for me. Ultimately my issue with CCW with it is the same as my 1911's, I carry at about 2 o'clock and the hammer jabs my side constantly, which is annoying.
There's another issue that many have that has not been mentioned. For those with large hands and high grips, it'll tend to bite the webbing of the hand. I have small hands and never have an issue, but some I know do.
Certaindeaf
member
The thing with all Hi-Powers is that you have to resign yourself to getting them smithed upon so that they'll be reliable/work.
that was a joke
that was a joke
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