Need loads for antique winchester in 32-20. Lots of powder, no data

[silicosys4]

I have an antique 1873 Winchester rifle in 32wcf.
I have .313 cast 95gr rnfp lead projectiles
I have a good selection of powders



Some of these powders I have a lot of experience with, some of them I have no experience with, and I have no experience loading 32-20. Load data for 32-20 is very sparse and limited.

I would like something that sends a 95gr cast lead projectile out of a 20" barrel at 1200fps while being safe on an antique 1873.

The only loads or load data I have is the box of reloads I found to function test and sight in the gun, which was 9.9 gr. of IMR 4227 under a 98gr RNFP cast lead projectile. This was loaded by somebody else and is the only data I have that is close to what I have, but I have no idea how safe that load is for the gun.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

First, I really hope this is a rifle built and proofed for smokeless powders and not a black powder era rifle. Just because the previous owner or owners got away with shooting smokeless doesn’t mean you will. Second, 9.9gr of IMR 4227 under a 98gr gas-checked LRN is below starting in the Lymans manuals I have that list .32-20 rifle data, the 40th, 44th and 45th. Those manuals show 10.0gr of 2400 or 13.0gr of 4227 at around 1460fps and 1760fps, respectively, as starting loads; they also list 5.0gr of Unique around 1430fps as the lowest load for velocity - no pressure data for those, of course. You should be able to find reprints of older manuals for these obsolete cartridges online or at Cornell publishing.

 

[MauriceSam]

I have been loading for an 1892 octagon barrel manf 1904, with 3.0g Titegroup, CCI-500, in Starline nickel plate, COL at 1.580", with a 95g Cast Performance (32/95) LRNFP. Haven't shot through Chrono, but based on load data for pistol rounds, which is what I could find, believe in the 950-1050 fps range. It shot very similar to the cowboy rounds I had (HSM). I am trying to keep fps under 1200 for safety reasons, though I have complete confidence in the rifle. Just a thought, certainly do your own research and test up. This based on data from Hodgdon.

 

[jmorris]

https://leverguns.com/articles/paco/3220wcf.htm

 

[Remington1911]

I have been shooting smokeless out of a trapdoor for years now, no issues. There are a great many sources for this specific rifle out there as they are so popular, so very well documented. And this is about as "weak" as you can get, a huge hole cut in the back for you to load through, not a lot of meat there.

For the trapdoor it is suggested you stay in the mid teens as far as pressure goes, many of the "trapdoor" safe loads also list the pressures. I finally came across a loading for VV powder that was 14k and the gun seems happy with that.

This will fling a 405 in the 900fps range, good enough for me, and not hard on the old girl.

Smokeless in a smokey rifle is something that you can do you just need to be smart about it. And know that too little can also cause bad results.

 

[rfwobbly]

The answer you seek is easy to get....

Pick up the phone and call your powder supplier. They have TONS of load information on calibers and obsolete powders they don't post on the web.

You are assuming that because you don't see it, they don't have it. A parallel assumption would be: You haven't shown us your 32-20, therefore you must really not have one !

 

[J-Bar]

Many years ago Hodgdon gave new SASS members a reloading data book.



Here is the .32-20 data:



If the rifle were mine, I would take it as an omen to shoot blackpowder cartridges.

Edit:

Your photo of powders shows you have Winchester 231 (same as HP-38) and Titegroup. Looks like you are good to go.

 

[King Medallion]

If you can't find reloading info, your not looking very hard, and just want someone else to do your legwork.

 

[MEHavey]

I really hope this is a rifle built and proofed for smokeless powders and not a black powder era rifle.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^
How old is this rifle?


.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

There is plenty of data in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, even the newest 4th Edition. Do not use those rifle powders you have in the picture.

There is data for W231, Unique, Titegroup and others you don't have in the picture.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have had good luck using Accurate 5744 in my 1890’s vintage Winchester 1873 rifle. The loads are not too hot for the rifle and I get to enjoy it as well. The ammunition also works well in my 1920’s vintage S&W k-frame so I have a good combination of guns to enjoy.

32-20 Win has more capability than what is suggested for older firearms from the black powder era. But that is progress. 327 Fed Fed Mag seems to have become the replacement for 32 caliber guns/ammunition these days.

Not that Ii am saying it is a bad thing, it is just passing over a
Good cartridge from the past.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I luck using Accurate 5744 in my 1890’s vintage Winchester 1873 rifle. The loads are not too hot for the rifle and I get to enjoy it as well. The ammunition also works well in my 1920’s vintage S&W k-frame so I have a good combination of guns to enjoy.
.................

I agree with AA5744. It was released (I think) as a substitute for making safe ammo in Black Powder era guns. Now that IMR SR4759 is no longer available its my choice for loading cast bullet 45-70 ammo for my Trapdoor. It should do well in the 32-20 but I didn't mention it because I didn't see it in your powder photo.

 

[MEHavey]

5744 is too slow for the 32-20 (way too slow)

But again we need to the OP's answer to The Question.

 

[Ovendoctor]

the lyman cast boolet manual should have everything you need for your 32/20
my 32/40 Winchester data comes from there and it works great

Mike

 

[N555]

The text you seek are very ancient, Speer#13 and earlier.

 

[STCL01]

I'll have to go back and look at what I did for mine, and I'm not at home right now. I have a rifle manufactured in 1897. Really leery of messing it up. I settled on Trailboss, and I think a 100g cast. I frankly don't remember the grain, but will find out.

 

[Captcurt]

the lyman cast boolet manual should have everything you need for your 32/20
my 32/40 Winchester data comes from there and it works great

Mike

Even the 50th edition Lyman has a few loads. Both cast and jacketed.

 

[entropy]

There's always 20 grains of black powder, that is what the 20 in the name means. Probably won't get you to to the velocity you want though.

 

[wcwhitey]

This is rifle data from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition

 

[Remington1911]

I find it interesting that the two books that people put up photos of have the pressures listed.

I found this out doing my research on the trapdoor. That is the only smoky gun that I have, and in seeing this in print as well makes me circle back to what I said before. Seems people like seeing those pressure numbers for the old guns in general.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

View attachment 1095951 View attachment 1095952 View attachment 1095953 This is rifle data from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition

In the first pic it says the data posted is not for use in older firearms made for black powder or handguns. That’s why it’s important to know if the OP’s rifle is nitro proofed.

 

[Remington1911]

Interesting, I can only speak to the trapdoor as that is all I have done and we know all are different. I would doubt many are marked in that way.

Like most things in life, read, learn, and decide for yourself. I also shoot a low number springfield and don't worry any more then any other old girl I play with.

 

[wcwhitey]

In the first pic it says the data posted is not for use in older firearms made for black powder or handguns. That’s why it’s important to know if the OP’s rifle is nitro proofed.
View attachment 1096457

Fair enough, I “assumed” that they knew this, probably wrong on my part. YES make sure the rifle is proofed for smokeless powder! The data does show that the 9.9 grain of 4227 is top end for that bullet anyway, not something I would push smokeless or not in an older gun.

 

[AJC1]

If it were mine I would focus on the hp-38/231 unique, universal section of the burnrate chart. The amount of unburnt powder in the mag, and fast rifle is insane. At 20kps 4227 is about half burnt and getting all over the place. Don't go to fast as you don't want squibs. Tin star, trail boss and 5744 are good bets. This is definitely a start at start exercise.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Goex is available. 20gr of FFFg under a 115gr LFN in a Winchester ‘73 is still a good enough load for most any medium sized deer. Don’t be afraid of the dark side.