Need more help 40 s&w Lee FCD

[kmw1954]

Then you have an issue the FCD is ironing out, but also masking. Better to solve the issue.

I think we are closer to being on the same page than it appears. I agree that one should do what is necessary to correct what can be fixed easily because most problems can be fixed easily and mostly with just a cleaning or adjustment. I also believe that all pistol loads should be able to be made accurately while just using a every day 3-die set of dies no matter who made them.

I think I just take issue with the phrase or idea that the die is being used to Mask something. That actually may be true in many cases. In my case the die is being used to correct a problem that otherwise cannot be easily "fixed" by just an adjustment. In this case I seen four options; use only factory ammunition, alter the gun, keep trying different seating dies or use this die. All those are solutions to a problem, all approach the problem from a different angle. My choice was to select to use the die.

 

[LiveLife]

So what did recreational reloaders and match shooters do for decades before Lee introduced the Factory Crimp Die?

 

[ATLDave]

So what did recreational reloaders and match shooters do for decades before Lee introduced the Factory Crimp Die?

Dealt with the hassle of tweaking their seating die to crimp in the process and probably had a slightly higher "won't gauge, use for practice" rate on their ammo?

I use a FCD because I like to have separate control over variable (seat and crimp separately is my strong preference, though I have been forced to do it simultaneously for some cartridges) and because every once in a while a bullet doesn't get started straight and you get a bulge that's just enough to keep it from gauging. Anything that doesn't gauge for me gets a marker slash across the headstamp and goes into the "practice ammo only" category. The less of that, the better.

 

[1KPerDay]

So what did recreational reloaders and match shooters do for decades before Lee introduced the Factory Crimp Die?

Dogs and cats, living together.... MASS HYSTERIA!!

 

[LiveLife]

I don't understand ... why ... keep making guns with tight chambers and short throats.... for a defensive gun ... stock guns designed for carry ... which is what IDPA is supposed to mimic.

I believe manufacturers are giving their customers/consumers what they demand.

How many times in countless "Best defensive gun choice/selection" threads have we seen posts like "One hit is better than thousand misses" or "Shoot different guns and buy the one that you can shoot the most accurate"? Just about in every thread. If you are gun manufacturer sensitive to your customer base, you will get the message that majority of online forum discussions on defensive pistols lean towards pistols that are reliable AND more accurate than others.

To increase accuracy out of factory barrels meant for "combat reliability looseness" towards SAAMI maximum dimension chambers and longer leade, you would obviously need to make chamber tighter towards SAAMI minimum with shorter leade (or none).

 

[Walkalong]

I was raised on a generous chamber for better reliability in a defensive weapon. Still believe in it, and those guns could still shoot better than most of the owners.

 

[kmw1954]

So what did recreational reloaders and match shooters do for decades before Lee introduced the Factory Crimp Die?

Guess in my case I'd be either trying a different seating die, sending the barrel out for work or sorting ammo into "go, no go" groups to use in different guns.

 

[Dudedog]

Because when you swung-and-missed 3 times on that mini-popper, it just has to be a mechanical accuracy issue!

 

[schmooey1617]

I personally have never had any "fail to plunk" issues in 9mm, 40S&W, or 45acp guns of all different makes and models with factory jacketed or even normal caliber diameter plated bullets. The only times I've ever had an issue is with cast bullets. 001 over normal caliber diameter doesn't sound like much but depending on the brass case WALL thickness, a .356, .401, and .452 diameter bullet as opposed to jacketed or plated bullets with .355, .400, and .451 diameters, for me anyway, constitutes the use of the FCD's. Otherwise, with normal caliber diameter bullets, I only use a light TAPER crimp. Just my 2 pesos.

 

[LiveLife]

The only times I've ever had an issue is with cast bullets. 001 over normal caliber diameter ... .356, .401, and .452 diameter bullet as opposed to jacketed or plated bullets with .355, .400, and .451 diameters, for me anyway, constitutes the use of the FCD's.

After Lee Bulge Buster kits were introduced that use Factory Crimp Dies, John Lee, president of Lee Precision in an email confirmed FCDs were meant for jacketed diameter bullets, not larger sized lead bullets - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-lee-bulge-buster-die-kit.502850/

The potential issue with using FCD on finished rounds loaded with larger sized lead bullets is brass spring back and reducing neck tension.

If FCD's carbide sizer ring post-sizes larger sized lead bullets (situation made worse with thicker case wall brass), bullet diameter will be reduced but brass case wall will spring back away from the bullet base (characteristics of brass meant to aid spent case extraction from chamber) possibly reducing neck tension and increasing bullet setback when the bullet nose bumps the feed ramp.

So if you must use FCD with larger sized lead bullets, measure the OAL of dummy rounds before and after feeding from the magazine (release the slide without riding it) and check for bullet setback.

You can also custom order/have Lee Precision enlarge the ID of FCD carbide sizer ring so it won't post size your finished rounds - https://leeprecision.com/custom-services/custom-factory-crimp-dies/

Custom Handgun Carbide Factory Crimp Dies

"handgun cartridges can be made for most handgun cartridges that are not in regular stock. Sizes available run from 25 ACP sized cases up to the 45 Gap.

• Payment of $30.00 + shipping
• Dummy cartridge (a bullet seated in an empty case). The dummy cartridge is for testing purposes, so make sure it is within normal dimensional tolerances."

 

[schmooey1617]

After Lee Bulge Buster kits were introduced that use Factory Crimp Dies, John Lee, president of Lee Precision in an email confirmed FCDs were meant for jacketed diameter bullets, not larger sized lead bullets - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-lee-bulge-buster-die-kit.502850/

The potential issue with using FCD on finished rounds loaded with larger sized lead bullets is brass spring back and reducing neck tension.

If FCD's carbide sizer ring post-sizes larger sized lead bullets (situation made worse with thicker case wall brass), bullet diameter will be reduced but brass case wall will spring back away from the bullet base (characteristics of brass meant to aid spent case extraction from chamber) possibly reducing neck tension and increasing bullet setback when the bullet nose bumps the feed ramp.

So if you must use FCD with larger sized lead bullets, measure the OAL of dummy rounds before and after feeding from the magazine (release the slide without riding it) and check for bullet setback.

You can also custom order/have Lee Precision enlarge the ID of FCD carbide sizer ring so it won't post size your finished rounds - https://leeprecision.com/custom-services/custom-factory-crimp-dies/

Custom Handgun Carbide Factory Crimp Dies

"handgun cartridges can be made for most handgun cartridges that are not in regular stock. Sizes available run from 25 ACP sized cases up to the 45 Gap.

• Payment of $30.00 + shipping
• Dummy cartridge (a bullet seated in an empty case). The dummy cartridge is for testing purposes, so make sure it is within normal dimensional tolerances."

Wow, obviously I've been misinformed , I was told that that was the exact purpose for the FCD'S, to eliminate the case bulge created by the larger diameters of cast bullets...damn.

 

[Walkalong]

If that diameter is over SAMMI spec, yes, be we would rather get a better flare, do a better job of starting bullets straight, and get the bulge even all around which will mean a smaller diameter. Then if the FCD still needs to do a little work, so be it.

 

[schmooey1617]

Well, if what I'm now told is correct , which if it's a statement by the Lee president, must be, what does the bulge buster die do ?? Maybe I'm thick but it seems like it would have to do the same exact thing as an FCD. And just for clarification, the plunk failure loads, that I did have happened only one time, with a certain poly coated bullet in one 9mm of mine. My other four 9mm's, the particular load didn't stick in the chamber. Does my one gun just have a slightly undersize chamber or what? Now, when it comes to the FCD, I'm more skeptical than ever. All my 45 years of loading for revolvers, these topics were never even an issue.

 

[Walkalong]

The bulge buster dies are for brass, the FCDs are for loaded rounds.

 

[Walkalong]

All my 45 years of loading for revolvers, these topics were never even an issue.

I certainly understand that. Love revolvers myself.

 

[vaalpens]

The bulge buster dies are for brass, the FCDs are for loaded rounds.

The bulge buster dies for Lee are actually the same as the FCD. I use the 40S&W FCD as bulge buster for 357SIG, but you can also use it is the bulge buster for 40S&W. It is basically the Lee FCD with the internals removed, using the push through punch and the body of the Lee FCD. I use it all the time.

 

[schmooey1617]

Many thanks fellas.

 

[schmooey1617]

Gotta admit though, after 4 decades of shootin revolvers, and about 8 months of shootin semi auto's, they are a LOT harder to shoot, offhand. Off the bench is no problem, I can shoot very admirable groups, like any other gun but the creep, reset, and the safety, hinged trigger is taking some getting used to. I always used to rip apart and stone hone all the sear notches and polish all the parts and reduce trigger pull and poundage and so forth...auto's are a completely different animal, as for reloading AND shooting. I'm still workin on it. So many thanks to ALL you guys and your help.

 

[schmooey1617]

Oh, also ya mentioned the bulge buster dies are for the brass. I buy quite a bit of once fired brass for all 3 of my calibers. There's some guys out there wherever, that have some guns with real significant problems. Slipped out firing pin holes, firing pins with tips broken off, really, really sloppy chambers, broken extractors, blown primer craters on the bolt face...geez. You'd think they'd notice these things if they examined their expended cases.

 

[LiveLife]

Many thanks fellas.

You are very welcome. Welcome to THR

what does the bulge buster die do ?

Using FCD with internals removed, push-through resize the entire case using the carbide sizer ring.

Bulge Buster kits are available in following calibers (Not for 9mm which is a tapered case) - https://leeprecision.com/bulge-buster-kit.html

• 380 ACP
• 40 S&W
• 10mm
• 41 AE (Use 40 S&W Factory Crimp Die)
• 45 ACP
• 45 GAP
• 45 Win Mag

the plunk failure loads, that I did have happened only one time, with a certain poly coated bullet in one 9mm of mine.

Does my one gun just have a slightly undersize chamber or what?

Not necessarily.

Even my Lone Wolf 40S&W and Sig 1911 45ACP barrels with tightest chambers I have shot will accommodate .401"/.452" sized lead bullets with exception of extra thick case walled brass.

Over the decades, as Walkalong loathed, some factory barrels have gotten tighter with shorter leade and some headstamp case wall thickness have gotten thicker which makes reloading .001" larger sized lead/coated lead bullets greater challenge.

after 4 decades of shootin revolvers, and about 8 months of shootin semi auto's, they are a LOT harder to shoot, offhand ... auto's are a completely different animal, as for reloading AND shooting. I'm still workin on it. So many thanks to ALL you guys and your help.

While following two threads are geared towards match shooting, most information in these threads should benefit recreational reloaders and shooters. Check out both threads and glean information helpful to you.

Enjoy.

This thread is for reloading more accurate 9mm loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-9mm-continues.845981/page-5#post-11034535

This thread is for shooting semi-auto pistols more accurately - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902226

If you want to delve deeper into improving reloading consistency, there are plenty more to consider - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-10966692

 

[LiveLife]

Wow, obviously I've been misinformed, I was told that that was the exact purpose for the FCD'S, to eliminate the case bulge created by the larger diameters of cast bullets...damn.

This is straight from Lee Precision's website - https://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die/

"A carbide sizer inside the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability."

Many factors can make a finished round "out of spec" such as being oversized and/or out-of-round as result of improper resizing of brass, out-of-round/spec bullets, inconsistent case wall thickness brass, tilted bullet during seating, etc. and prevent the finished round from fully chambering in the barrel and FCD (for semi-auto pistol calibers) with carbide sizer will post-size the finished round back to SAAMI specs to fully chamber in the barrel.

 

[schmooey1617]

You are very welcome. Welcome to THR


Using FCD with internals removed, push-through resize the entire case using the carbide sizer ring.

Bulge Buster kits are available in following calibers (Not for 9mm which is a tapered case) - https://leeprecision.com/bulge-buster-kit.html

• 380 ACP
• 40 S&W
• 10mm
• 41 AE (Use 40 S&W Factory Crimp Die)
• 45 ACP
• 45 GAP
• 45 Win Mag

Not necessarily.

Even my Lone Wolf 40S&W and Sig 1911 45ACP barrels with tightest chambers I have shot will accommodate .401"/.452" sized lead bullets with exception of extra thick case walled brass.

Over the decades, as Walkalong loathed, some factory barrels have gotten tighter with shorter leade and some headstamp case wall thickness have gotten thicker which makes reloading .001" larger sized lead/coated lead bullets greater challenge.


While following two threads are geared towards match shooting, most information in these threads should benefit recreational reloaders and shooters. Check out both threads and glean information helpful to you.

Enjoy.

This thread is for reloading more accurate 9mm loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-9mm-continues.845981/page-5#post-11034535

This thread is for shooting semi-auto pistols more accurately - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902226

If you want to delve deeper into improving reloading consistency, there are plenty more to consider - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-10966692

Thanks even one more time. I do remember reading somewhere that you couldn't get 9mm bulge busters. If memory serves me, you could get them for the Makarov, or use .380's for the Makarov, or vice-versa, something like that. I've bought some once fired 9mm brass in the past that was pretty darn "expanded", but still had no problem resizing in regular carbide dies, although once resized, the were obviously a little longer than the rest, that brass has to go somewhere . I trim all my once fired brass to the same length before the first loading anyway.

 

[LiveLife]

I use Lee carbide resizing die which has tapered carbide sizer ring to match tapered case profile of 9mm (Other brand 9mm sizer ring is not tapered).

My concern with 9mm brass is match shooters shooting 9mm Major loads (124 gr bullets pushed to 1400-1450 fps) once and leaving them on the ground for unsuspecting reloaders/range staff to pick up for reloading or sale.

Now when I encounter significantly higher resistance during resizing, I will observe the bottom of die to top of shell plate/holder and if I see daylight, I will check the resized brass in the tightest barrel I have. If it fails the barrel, I will resize the brass again. If the twice resized brass fails the barrel, it gets tossed for recycling as I deem the brass wall too far stretched (Read thinned and weakened).

 

[schmooey1617]

I suspect that these "overexpanded" cases are probably gonna show up later, after a couple loadings, and have a shorter case life in the end.
Whenever I buy once fired brass, whether it be 500, or 1000 or whatever at a time, the first thing I do is sort them all by brand/headstamp. That always leaves a few 50 round boxes of mixed headstamp brass that I use for just spankin steel.
I'm not a competitive bullseye shooter or anything so it probably doesn't matter much for a guy with my limited semi auto shooting experience right now anyway but it's just a "mental" thing, knowing all my brass, especially for group/accuracy/load testing is the same brand, all trimmed the same length.

 

[LiveLife]

semi auto ... all trimmed the same length.

I do not trim straight walled semi-auto pistol cases. If they are too short to headspace off case mouth, they will headspace off extractor.

I am currently sorting through over 8,000 indoor 9mm brass and separating them by headstamp for upcoming various THR myth busting range tests and none of them will be trimmed - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ading-room-today.830858/page-50#post-11059079