cheygriz
member
Does anyone know where to find bolt heads for .303 SMLE rifles?
TIA
TIA
Need parts for SMLE
- Thread starter cheygriz
- Start date
- Status
drsteve
Member
DougW
Member
+1 to drsteve. You will need to know if it is a #1mkIII, #1mk3, or a #4mk1 etc. A lot of people refer to anything in .303 as a SMLE. The #4's and the #5's were the rifles that had the interchangable bolt heads numbered 0,1,2,3, and the #1' had the bolt head ground fitted to the rifle, and the bolt heads were not made to be changed out. Good luck!
tbtrout
Member
Gun Parts Corp
OP
OP
cheygriz
member
Thanks, guys. I have need for a #3 bolt head for a No.4 MKlll*
You may or may not really need a new bolt head. I have 4 No. 4 Mk. 1s and a No. 1 Mk. III. Headspace on a rimmed case isn't all that critical if you fire-form with a new case and only neck size thereafter. All the stretching is done once and for all on the first firing, and after that the headspace is "correct" for that rifle. Now, if you full-length size each time; well, then, you will have stretching problems and probably head separations after as little as two firings. With the above neck-sizing technique (using the old Lee Loader, of all things--it works fine) I have gotten as many as eight firings from cases. I just segregate cases according to the rifle they were fired in.
There used to be a ".303 Page" website with info on this. The .303 British is a quirky rifle and cartridge but has its points, particularly as a battle rifle which was its purpose in life anyway.
As you probably know by now, bolt heads are hard to find.
There used to be a ".303 Page" website with info on this. The .303 British is a quirky rifle and cartridge but has its points, particularly as a battle rifle which was its purpose in life anyway.
As you probably know by now, bolt heads are hard to find.
Trying to figure out...
What a No4MkIII* is, myself.
Roman numeral designations were for WWI vintage British rifles, as well as WWII Aussie (Lithgow) rifles of WWI pattern. The old SMLE was called "NoIMkIII", or "NoIMkIII*" after 1916, as volley sights, mag cutoff, and windage-adjustable rear sight were omitted to expedite production.
The Brits used new numbering conventions on the eve of WWII, hence the later rifles were called "No4Mk1", etc. Some folks continue to use the SMLE moniker on the later rifles, but they were a totally new design, very little if any parts interchangeability. The No4Mk1 was improved to the No4Mk2 variant, and was also produced in a chopped and lightened form to become the No5Mk1 "Jungle Carbine". When an asterisk (*) was added to the numbering, it meant a product improvement or manufacturing expedient.
So it leaves me wondering what rifle Cheygriz really has. He *may* have a No4Mk1/3, which was a postwar arsenal refurbish.
Here's a list of variants and their respective histories:
http://www.answers.com/topic/lee-enfield
What a No4MkIII* is, myself.
Roman numeral designations were for WWI vintage British rifles, as well as WWII Aussie (Lithgow) rifles of WWI pattern. The old SMLE was called "NoIMkIII", or "NoIMkIII*" after 1916, as volley sights, mag cutoff, and windage-adjustable rear sight were omitted to expedite production.
The Brits used new numbering conventions on the eve of WWII, hence the later rifles were called "No4Mk1", etc. Some folks continue to use the SMLE moniker on the later rifles, but they were a totally new design, very little if any parts interchangeability. The No4Mk1 was improved to the No4Mk2 variant, and was also produced in a chopped and lightened form to become the No5Mk1 "Jungle Carbine". When an asterisk (*) was added to the numbering, it meant a product improvement or manufacturing expedient.
So it leaves me wondering what rifle Cheygriz really has. He *may* have a No4Mk1/3, which was a postwar arsenal refurbish.
Here's a list of variants and their respective histories:
http://www.answers.com/topic/lee-enfield
351 WINCHESTER
Member
Try and find a complete bolt head, as it is difficult to install the extractor and spring. Try a google search and also check on ebay. Sooner or later you will find a complete bolt head.
Interchangeable Lee Enfield heads
DougW, I thought that all mk1's used the same system as the no 4's. I stand corrected. I have a new mk1 head but it is the same as my existing one so doesn't help me but I head space on the shoulder anyway and my excess head space is only slight. One should never fire machine gun ammo in a mk1. Especially not 500 of them! (I took my rifle along to a military sponsored shoot one day - why would they give us machine gun ammo?)
(I got that idea from my uncle who was a WW II armourer in North Africa. I must have missed what he said).
Pete
DougW, I thought that all mk1's used the same system as the no 4's. I stand corrected. I have a new mk1 head but it is the same as my existing one so doesn't help me but I head space on the shoulder anyway and my excess head space is only slight. One should never fire machine gun ammo in a mk1. Especially not 500 of them! (I took my rifle along to a military sponsored shoot one day - why would they give us machine gun ammo?)
(I got that idea from my uncle who was a WW II armourer in North Africa. I must have missed what he said).
Pete
mukluk
Member
The bolt heads on all Lee Enfields can be replaced as needed; the numbered bolt head system introduced on the No4 just makes it easier than it was for the earlier Lees. Keep in mind it is quite likely any replacement bolt head you find now has already been used/fitted previously to a rifle so it would be best if you could get the measurements of the replacement before buying. It would be a waste of your time and money to finally track down that elusive #3 only to find it is the same length or shorter than the bolt head you already have.
All this does bring up the question, what is it that makes you feel a longer bolt head is needed? Are you having case head separations?
All this does bring up the question, what is it that makes you feel a longer bolt head is needed? Are you having case head separations?
OP
OP
cheygriz
member
Gewehr98.
OOPS! Typo. My bad!
It's a Canadian Long Branch No.4 MK1* (I also have an australian 1941 Lithgow No.l MKlll) Somethimes I get the Mk. numbers transposed.
A common occurance in us senile old farts!
I thought about just firing factory rounds, and necksizing, but both rifles will allow the bolt to fully close on a field headspace guage.
Maybe I'm borrowing trouble that isn't there, but I guess I've always been pretty anal about headspace.:banghead:
OOPS! Typo. My bad!
It's a Canadian Long Branch No.4 MK1* (I also have an australian 1941 Lithgow No.l MKlll) Somethimes I get the Mk. numbers transposed.
A common occurance in us senile old farts!
I thought about just firing factory rounds, and necksizing, but both rifles will allow the bolt to fully close on a field headspace guage.
Maybe I'm borrowing trouble that isn't there, but I guess I've always been pretty anal about headspace.:banghead:
I just found a #2 bolt head for my No.4 mk1. It had a #0 and I was having serious head separation issues. Numrich actually had some #2's a while back. Normally anything bigger than a 1 is nearly impossible to find. The #2 did fix the problem, works great now.
I have a No.1 mk.III with even worse headspace, but the barrel is really bad too so I think I'll just get a new barrel and have it headspaced when installed. I might even get fancy and rebarrel it for some cool wildcat or something.
I have a No.1 mk.III with even worse headspace, but the barrel is really bad too so I think I'll just get a new barrel and have it headspaced when installed. I might even get fancy and rebarrel it for some cool wildcat or something.
OP
OP
cheygriz
member
If I knew a good riflesmith in the area that had a lot of experience with the No. l MK lll Lithgow, SMLE, I think I would have him/her remove my new barrel, and set it back a couple of threads.
I guess I'll keep on looking for a #3 bolthead for the No. 4 Mk1*, and a gunsmith for the lithgow.
There're out there somewhere, I just gotta find 'em!:banghead:
I guess I'll keep on looking for a #3 bolthead for the No. 4 Mk1*, and a gunsmith for the lithgow.
There're out there somewhere, I just gotta find 'em!:banghead:
303 case head separation
fatelk, how many reloads do you get on a case now? I was experiencing case head separation after 3 or 4 reloads on a rifle that passed the headspace test. I solved my problem by partial necksizing and lubing the loaded cartridge. Case life became limited by neck splits - if I didn't neck anneal often enough. I still have my original cases of various brands from 25 years back.
Pete
fatelk, how many reloads do you get on a case now? I was experiencing case head separation after 3 or 4 reloads on a rifle that passed the headspace test. I solved my problem by partial necksizing and lubing the loaded cartridge. Case life became limited by neck splits - if I didn't neck anneal often enough. I still have my original cases of various brands from 25 years back.
Pete
Real neat trick to reloading .303 British...
Since they're rear-locking, have various headspace tolerances for both ammo and guns over the course of 100 years, and also headspace on the rim, all of which are a pain-in-the-posterior for reloading:
Lee Collet dies. These are neck-size only dies, and they've given my .303 British brass a new lease on life. I'm not bumping the shoulders back and forth each reloading/firing cycle, and it appears accuracy is improved when rounds are fireformed to fit a given rifle perfectly.
Drawbacks? If you have more than one example of a Lee-Enfield rifle (like I do), you have to segregrate the brass and handloads per each rifle.
Since they're rear-locking, have various headspace tolerances for both ammo and guns over the course of 100 years, and also headspace on the rim, all of which are a pain-in-the-posterior for reloading:
Lee Collet dies. These are neck-size only dies, and they've given my .303 British brass a new lease on life. I'm not bumping the shoulders back and forth each reloading/firing cycle, and it appears accuracy is improved when rounds are fireformed to fit a given rifle perfectly.
Drawbacks? If you have more than one example of a Lee-Enfield rifle (like I do), you have to segregrate the brass and handloads per each rifle.
You know, I haven't shot it much since I put the new bolt head on. I had been having misfires with some surplus ammo before, they work great now. I also looked closely in the fired case for signs of case separation and there is no sign now. I was hopeing my problems were solved but now I'm not convinced.
Gewehr98- I think I'll buy some of those collet dies, sounds like just the thing for my old rifle.
OP
OP
cheygriz
member
I have a Redding neck size die, so I guess I'll try a box of factory S&B, then neck size and see what happens.
Wish me luck, guys!
Wish me luck, guys!
mukluk
Member
S&B .303 Brit brass has a widely accepted reputation for being weak... even when neck sizing only it is common to only get a few reloads before they separate. My personal preference is Prvi Partizan and Remington brass.
I'd consider that reputation conjecture, at best.
I've been using S&B brass for my Lee-Enfields almost exclusively for the last 7 years, and find it about as close to original mil-spec MkVII ball as anything available these days. I've found Remington and Winchester brass to be thin, it pales in comparison, so I don't use the latter any longer.
Neck splits can be alleviated or even eliminated by proper annealing, btw.
I've been using S&B brass for my Lee-Enfields almost exclusively for the last 7 years, and find it about as close to original mil-spec MkVII ball as anything available these days. I've found Remington and Winchester brass to be thin, it pales in comparison, so I don't use the latter any longer.
Neck splits can be alleviated or even eliminated by proper annealing, btw.
Erinyes
Member
As of two weeks ago Numrich had #2 bolt heads for something like $12 plus shipping. I ordered one for my No.4 Mk.I (It closed on a field gauge with a #0). Shored up the head space pretty well, no sign at all of flattened or backed-out primers. The case shoulders sure did change shape, though.
Sunray
Member
"...both rifles will allow the bolt to fully close on a field headspace guage..." Both rifles are unsafe to shoot. The headspace is excessive on both. Headspace is a rifle tolerance. Cartridges do not have headspace. You cannot change where a rifle headspaces with the case. Neck sizing does nothing for the headspace either.
Nor can you just change bolt heads without using proper guages. That gives you no guarantee that the headspace is ok. You need proper headspace guages and a handful of bolt heads for the No. 1 to change bolt heads until you find one that does NOT close on a No-Go or at worst a Field.
The No. 4 is a bit easier, but you still need the headspace guages. If your current bolt head is a Number 2, there's no reason to assume that a Number 3 will fix it.
Gunparts is listing No. 1 bolt heads at $11.30 each. They're also listing barrels at $44.95 each. To change the barrel you'll need a barrel vise and a proper action wrench or you'll twist the receiver into a odd shaped paperweight.
I know of a guy up here, who says he has 0, 1 and 2 bolt heads for the No. 4 at $25 to $40 Canadian. Ask him about 3's. He might have one or two.
http://www.tradeexcanada.com/esquif2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=27
Pop by www.canadiangunnutz.com, go into the Milsurp forum and ask about Number 3's. There's a guy who says he has them as of this past March.
Nor can you just change bolt heads without using proper guages. That gives you no guarantee that the headspace is ok. You need proper headspace guages and a handful of bolt heads for the No. 1 to change bolt heads until you find one that does NOT close on a No-Go or at worst a Field.
The No. 4 is a bit easier, but you still need the headspace guages. If your current bolt head is a Number 2, there's no reason to assume that a Number 3 will fix it.
Gunparts is listing No. 1 bolt heads at $11.30 each. They're also listing barrels at $44.95 each. To change the barrel you'll need a barrel vise and a proper action wrench or you'll twist the receiver into a odd shaped paperweight.
I know of a guy up here, who says he has 0, 1 and 2 bolt heads for the No. 4 at $25 to $40 Canadian. Ask him about 3's. He might have one or two.
http://www.tradeexcanada.com/esquif2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=27
Pop by www.canadiangunnutz.com, go into the Milsurp forum and ask about Number 3's. There's a guy who says he has them as of this past March.
mukluk
Member
Consider yourself lucky; most people I know and have talked to only get 2-4 reloads with S&B brass before case head separations occur, neck splits aren't a problem since the case head departs company before work hardening becomes an issue.
OP
OP
cheygriz
member
Thanks, again guys. I have pretty much decided to set thye barrel back on the Lithgow, and keep loking for a #3 or #4 head for the Long Branch.
I guess that I love the old Enfields so much that, as much of a tightwad as I am, expense will not be a major factor in getting them back to being " fit for 'er Majesty's service!"
I guess that I love the old Enfields so much that, as much of a tightwad as I am, expense will not be a major factor in getting them back to being " fit for 'er Majesty's service!"
- Status
