Chuck Perry
Member
How about this ? http://www.paraord.com/pages/single/C645.html
Double action auto with manual safety, CCW proportions, major caliber.
Double action auto with manual safety, CCW proportions, major caliber.
Needs a safety
- Thread starter priv8ter
- Start date
- Status
BevrFevr
Member
Makarov? or Bersa?
I have no experience with them but the firestorm mini .45 by bersa is small and the saftey is a nearly perfect design for my small hands. They are a new design and I just love the feel but I'll wait for more data myself.
Good Luck -bevr
I have no experience with them but the firestorm mini .45 by bersa is small and the saftey is a nearly perfect design for my small hands. They are a new design and I just love the feel but I'll wait for more data myself.
Good Luck -bevr
H
Handy
Guest
Walt,
I agree an extra safety lever just complicates things-I like the Sig system better. I was just pointing out that when you release the safety on a S&W, Beretta, Ruger type you aren't doing anything that greatly affects the safety of the shooter-so it doesn't matter when you do it.
Your point seems more to be that it is a dumb practice to do it in the first place - and it may be. But if one does wish to carry that way, the main issue is getting the thing off prior to firing. If the most reliable and efficient method is during the draw, then that is the best time to flip off that safety.
All of that goes only for DAs with a safety, not cocked and locked.
I would go a step further than what you said: If you aren't ever going to carry a DA pistol on safe, do not carry a gun that has a safety (decock only, DAO). That way there can be no confusion or possibility of the weapon not firing. And if it has a safety, you had better be pushing on it to make SURE it's off, whether you thought you set it or not.
I agree an extra safety lever just complicates things-I like the Sig system better. I was just pointing out that when you release the safety on a S&W, Beretta, Ruger type you aren't doing anything that greatly affects the safety of the shooter-so it doesn't matter when you do it.
Your point seems more to be that it is a dumb practice to do it in the first place - and it may be. But if one does wish to carry that way, the main issue is getting the thing off prior to firing. If the most reliable and efficient method is during the draw, then that is the best time to flip off that safety.
All of that goes only for DAs with a safety, not cocked and locked.
I would go a step further than what you said: If you aren't ever going to carry a DA pistol on safe, do not carry a gun that has a safety (decock only, DAO). That way there can be no confusion or possibility of the weapon not firing. And if it has a safety, you had better be pushing on it to make SURE it's off, whether you thought you set it or not.
MrAcheson
Member
I believe one of the CZ compacts has a true manual C&L safety rather than a decocker. Its listed on the CZ USA website.
MLH
Member
Beretta 9000fs DA/SA
If her hands fit it. You can carry it any way you want to. Cocked & Locked or DA with safety off or on as it has a firing pin safety built in too. Trigger has to be pulled to fire. The safety will free up with a little use.
If her hands fit it. You can carry it any way you want to. Cocked & Locked or DA with safety off or on as it has a firing pin safety built in too. Trigger has to be pulled to fire. The safety will free up with a little use.
renaissance
Member
Para Ord
Carry or Companion
Light Double Action
Plus
A Manual Safety over that
Can't do better than that (without unloading it)
Carry or Companion
Light Double Action
Plus
A Manual Safety over that
Can't do better than that (without unloading it)
Walt Sherrill
Member
I don't think that you and I disagree on this at all.
If someone feels more secure by using the safety with a holstered gun, then they should do so. As you note, I question the amount of additional "safety" added by doing so, but I understand why some might prefer to go that route.
But I'd argue that IF you're going to use the safety with a holstered gun, then you ought to leave the safety on until the gun is out of the holster and you've got the gun pointed away from your leg/body and preparing to cover a bad guy.
Trying to release the safety while the gun is still in the holster further complicates an already complex and potentially dangerous process, and when your life's at risk, any complexity or additional risk you can avoid should be avoided.
priv8ter
Member
Thanks!
I just want to thank everyone for their input so far. Right now, I think I am leaning towards a Beretta Tomcat. Actually, I want to get one of the Alleycats...
But.
This Friday, my darling mother has offered to take our dearest daughter(8 months old) for the whole weekend, so sometime, the wife and I have a date to go to a gun range in Bellevue and rent some guns. If she finds she likes .45's, then I hope she likes either a S&W Chiefs Special, or the Para Ord C-6.
Wish me luck!
I just want to thank everyone for their input so far. Right now, I think I am leaning towards a Beretta Tomcat. Actually, I want to get one of the Alleycats...
But.
This Friday, my darling mother has offered to take our dearest daughter(8 months old) for the whole weekend, so sometime, the wife and I have a date to go to a gun range in Bellevue and rent some guns. If she finds she likes .45's, then I hope she likes either a S&W Chiefs Special, or the Para Ord C-6.
Wish me luck!
10-Ring
Member
Good luck and have FUN! 
L
Logistar
Guest
I had a similar situation. This is not a recommendation but an option.
A Taurus PT-111 has both a manual safety and the trigger LOCK. She will feel safe with that for sure. Recoil isn't bad for a 9mm. I do not carry the Taurus with the safety on however. Initially I did. I know how she feels but eventually she will probably want to carry with it off.
It appears that Taurus is putting stronger recoil springs in the PT-111s. I ordered a replacement and after it has been in the gun for a while, it is still noticeably stronger. I think that will help with the pin shearing problem that I have heard about on some PT-111s. (Mine has been perfect - over 700 rounds.) You might want to check it out at least. Most people who have shot mine like it. The only complaints have been the DA trigger. No problem for me though.... I WANTED a deliberate pull.
Logistar
A Taurus PT-111 has both a manual safety and the trigger LOCK. She will feel safe with that for sure. Recoil isn't bad for a 9mm. I do not carry the Taurus with the safety on however. Initially I did. I know how she feels but eventually she will probably want to carry with it off.
It appears that Taurus is putting stronger recoil springs in the PT-111s. I ordered a replacement and after it has been in the gun for a while, it is still noticeably stronger. I think that will help with the pin shearing problem that I have heard about on some PT-111s. (Mine has been perfect - over 700 rounds.) You might want to check it out at least. Most people who have shot mine like it. The only complaints have been the DA trigger. No problem for me though.... I WANTED a deliberate pull.
Logistar
I can beat a GLock from draw with my 1911 and BHP and cz75 ST IPSC. Why because I draw these guns ALOT and rest my thumb on top of the safety. I have done it so much that it is almost natural. Shoot lots of IPSC and IDPA with a SA gun using high thumbs hold and you will see what I mean. Its all about muscle memory.
That said, is a super fast draw really that important in self defense. Probably not. Unless of course its a showdown at high noon.
As for a gun recommendation, I agree with MK11 one of the Beretta .380s with a frame mounted safety is a good way to go as is the Colt mustang. So is the CZ83 or 75 compact.
Para Ordnance's little guns have reliablity problems and QC problems. I know from selling them and sending them back for unsatisfied customers. Yes the LDA trigger feels nice but the reset sucks, they rust(yes I know their stainless, they rusted in our showcase), and they dont run
That said, is a super fast draw really that important in self defense. Probably not. Unless of course its a showdown at high noon.
As for a gun recommendation, I agree with MK11 one of the Beretta .380s with a frame mounted safety is a good way to go as is the Colt mustang. So is the CZ83 or 75 compact.
Para Ordnance's little guns have reliablity problems and QC problems. I know from selling them and sending them back for unsatisfied customers. Yes the LDA trigger feels nice but the reset sucks, they rust(yes I know their stainless, they rusted in our showcase), and they dont run
Jim, thanks for the update. Very interesting. Just out of curiosity, were you disengaging the safety before the gun cleared the holster? I also realized, thanks to MattK's post, that we may have had a miscommunication ... possibly. The drill we did was with arms hanging at sides and a cover garment (light jacket opened in front). As such, I could not "rest" my thumb on the safety. As well, as I'm not practiced in "quick draw", I am not comfortable disengaging the safety on a 1911 before it is at least 30 degrees forward (from vertical down) and clear of the holster. I also made sure to keep my finger out of the trigger guard until the gun was nearing level as well and it is possible that the others I shot with were putting it in as soon as it was available.
Perhaps when the weather warms up around here I'll try the same drill (just gotta get a timer). As it is, our indoor ranges do not allow drawing (except during competition, and I don't want to ruflle any feathers trying my experiment during that). Another drill I'd like to try at that time would be the typical IPSC start with the gun lying on a table, and you're seated with both palms flat on table (except, for this experiment, I'd probably stand). That would eliminate any hesitation I'd have with regard to muzzle direction and allow me to simply grab the gun and fire at a 2yds target as fast as I can ... from there, it's simply drawing from the holster.
MattK, the point of the drill I mentioned was that the BG is on you before you know what's going on. And, I tend to believe that this is most common in CCW situations. The more time between presenting the gun and actually shooting the BG affords the BG more opportunity to respond to the presentation. Are you suggesting that one who wishes to CCW need not concern themselves with this drill? I have no clue what your interpretation of "super fast draw" is.
Perhaps when the weather warms up around here I'll try the same drill (just gotta get a timer). As it is, our indoor ranges do not allow drawing (except during competition, and I don't want to ruflle any feathers trying my experiment during that). Another drill I'd like to try at that time would be the typical IPSC start with the gun lying on a table, and you're seated with both palms flat on table (except, for this experiment, I'd probably stand). That would eliminate any hesitation I'd have with regard to muzzle direction and allow me to simply grab the gun and fire at a 2yds target as fast as I can ... from there, it's simply drawing from the holster.
MattK, the point of the drill I mentioned was that the BG is on you before you know what's going on. And, I tend to believe that this is most common in CCW situations. The more time between presenting the gun and actually shooting the BG affords the BG more opportunity to respond to the presentation. Are you suggesting that one who wishes to CCW need not concern themselves with this drill? I have no clue what your interpretation of "super fast draw" is.
- Status
