Negligent Discharge at Gunshow...

[Trent]

What will happen to gun shows inside a given state If somebody dies from an ND?

In Bloomington IL about two years ago didn't a Mini 14's .223 bullet hit three people, including a guy who suffered a serious abdominal injury?

Apparently vendors either are trusted to Not make mistakes preparing for the next day, or they buy a gun from a customer/another vendor and don't want to question whether somebody else checked it.
Maybe it is the social clique phenomenon, where many people are uncomfy displaying any skepticism of good, trusted buddies' actions.

2 people were shot, and yes, one was serious. I have several friends who were at that gun show when it happened - I usually either have a table there or go there to shop at least once a year.

The 223 bullet lost velocity as it first went through a thick wooden post (about 8" thick) before it punched through the first man. Another fragment wounded a second individual. They are very lucky that the bullet went through that post first, the fragments didn't penetrate deeply in to either person, from what I understand. The person looking at the gun aimed (and hit) dead center in the wooden post to "try the trigger".

The rifle was apparently traded in or sold to that vendor by a customer earlier that day.

The organizers always check all actions at the door to make sure they are clear; speculation is someone dropped a live round in to the chamber during the event.

(That also happened at a downstate show; one of the vendors noticed a chamber flag missing at one point during the show, opened the gun, and had a live round pop out; in that instance, it was some random passerby that had dropped a loaded round in...)

 

[j1]

Crowds cause fools to stand out. Gun shows, gun ranges make me nervous.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This whole experience has left me with a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to gun shows. I don't know if I'll ever go back to one. There are so many people handling so many different firearms, that at any given moment it seems one is always pointed right at me. Now I'm going to have to worry if it's going to go off at just the wrong moment. Am I being paranoid?

Did you drive to the gun show in a vehicle on public highways? Do you have any idea how dangerous that is?

 

[SunnySlopes]

Did you drive to the gun show in a vehicle on public highways?

When I drive on the highway, I can practice something called "defensive driving." I travel the speed limit, watch for erratic behavior among drivers, etc.

At a gun show, if some fool two rows away decides to discharge a high powered rifle in my direction, there's no way I can get out of the way of a bullet.

Even given your premise, just because one activity (driving) is dangerous doesn't mean I should automatically expose myself to every other dangerous activity. That logic is absurd.

 

[we are not amused]

Gun Shows make you nervous?

Then just don't go!

By the way, don't forget that slipping and falling in the tub at home is far more likely to cause death or serious injury, and forget about driving - anywhere!

Sheesh! What some people whine about!

I see little point in trying to ruin someone else's enjoyment of a gun show.

Endless complaints about the very rare accidents, sometimes overpriced product, people selling jerky, and half dressed girlfriends (yes, some one actually complained about that! ) and the crowds. Why try to turn people off what may be a very enjoyable experience? Let people go and decide for themselves.

And you might think about the fact that you are reinforcing the meme of the anti-gun nuts, that guns are soo dangerous, that just being around them is going to get you killed! :banghead:

 

[scaatylobo]

Yesterday

was at a gun show and my friend [ also a retired firearms LEO instructor ] asked to see a pistol in a case full of them.

The woman asked to see and hold his permit.

She then took the pistol out and handed it to him WITHOUT CHECKING THE CHAMBER.

He handed it back locked open,she put it the case the same way = I do believe she has no idea how to open and close the semi auto's.

She also handed another man a FEW pistols from the case and she did NOT check them before putting them back .

Me no like !!.

Another gun show a few years [ 2 ] back,a older man was in his car and was trying to unload his 1911 so he could go into the show as they request ,unloaded.

He shot himself in the femoral artery and dies enroute to hospital,they did not put it in the papers.

they listed his death at the hospital.

 

[SunnySlopes]

What some people whine about!

It's a public forum. Dialogue is encouraged.

Wait. You prefer monologue?

Got it. Only those who agree with you will be allowed to speak/post.

 

[Drail]

Being cognizant of danger around you is not being paranoid. It is a basic survival mechanism. Are gun shows "dangerous"? Absolutely. I worked on a gun show circuit for approx. 5 years. Witnessed several "negligent" discharges. The instant change from the very loud noise level of thousands of people almost shouting over each other to complete total silence was astounding . For several seconds all you could hear was the HVAC blowers running in the building. I still attend gun shows. Life is essentially dangerous. You do the best you can and live with it. Driving down a road and noticing that every single car coming towards me is being driven by some idiot playing with their cell phone frightens me much worse than idiots at gun shows. I used to drive for a living. I am very glad to be retired and not have to deal with THAT danger every day. After noticing how the majority of stupid drivers were I sold my motorcycle because the risk level was simply MUCH too high. It really is a shame how stupid most people have become.

 

[rondog]

Seems like there's at least one gun show ND a year here in Denver, it's certainly more common than it should be! But ya know what's even MORE common? People accidentally driving through the front of convenience stores and other shops! You're more likely to die getting a latte at a Starbucks than get shot at a gun show.

I very rarely go to gun shows, but not because I fear the reaper. All that walking makes my feet hurt, all the stupid makes my head hurt, and there's nothing I want at them anyway.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I wonder of the person responsible will be prosecuted?

Centralia City Code:

10.23.050 Discharge of firearms prohibited.

A. Except as provided in subsection (B) of this section, it is unlawful for a person to knowingly discharge a firearm within the city.

B. The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

1. A person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments, while engaged in official duties;

2. Commissioned law enforcement personnel;

3. Security personnel while engaged in official duties;

4. A person utilizing a properly licensed instructional, membership, and/or commercial shooting range; or

5. A person exercising the right of the individual citizen guaranteed by Article I, Section 24 of the State Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or the state.

C. A violation of or failure to comply with this section is a misdemeanor. (Ord. 2215 § 1 (part), 2008).

"But I didn't know the gun was loaded!"

"Sir, did you pull the trigger?"

"Yes."

"So...you knowingly discharged the firearm by pulling the trigger..."

"But it was supposed to be unloaded!"

My personal opinion - if you pulled the trigger, then you knowingly discharged the gun whether you thought it was unloaded or not.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This is allegedly what happened:

http://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?t=37498&p=322177

TT one of the parties privy to what went on.....Dbag brings a loaded gun in and places it on security table. Sits there for 40+ minutes before show starts. Security fails to clear weapon and straps and tags it, Loaded weapon is carried by owner to a table, Vendor buys weapon, weapon sits strapped on table for almost an hour. Vendor says to self.."Oh forgot to check the bore", cuts security strap placed on weapon by security staff at door...Weapon discharges....

Was a Savage Model 99 110xxx range that was recalled for bad safety..This one never made it to recall. I know both the dbag who sold the weapon to the vendor, and the vendor very well...Seller would sell his own mother for a $.....Vendor is a Viet Nam Vet, used to teach Rifle Marksmanship and build rifles for Quantico.....

Chain of events..Dbag fails to clear weapon, Security fails to clear weapon and straps it..Vendor goes to unstrap weapon and it discharges...Vendor will be the one fined by PoPo....Not a cool situation..

Vendor is real upset at the incident...Dbag need a butt kicking......Security needs to step up its game......Period

Dbag has brought loaded weapons in before, and I have inspected weapons in the trunk of his car..They were loaded.....

And yes Did talk to a few of the parties involved and am a bit biased...I did not jump to conclusions and got some facts before posting this...

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I was in our lgs about 20 years ago when an older gent walked in a bought a browning high power and 2 boxes of Remington ammo. I watched him load up a magazine, insert it into the gun and rack the slide. Then he tried to lower the hammer. The bullet went in between 2 good customers and into a wall where it was never recovered. Thank God no one got shot. The guy was so embaressed that he never came back.

There was this deputy sheriff who unloaded his .38 revolver and pointed it at the wall and let one go in the same shop.

I walked into the custom house when I was a broker and immediately smelled gunpowder. I looked around and up and there was a hole in the ceiling. No one was around so I shouted out "everyone ok?". One of the inspectors (Barney) was teaching the girls gun safety with his 870 when he let one go. That was the last time Barney carried a gun with the customs service.

 

[JRH6856]

one of the vendors noticed a chamber flag missing at one point during the show, opened the gun, and had a live round pop out; in that instance, it was some random passerby that had dropped a loaded round in...

That is beyond prank. Might rise to the level of a terrorist act.

 

[AlexanderA]

I'm surprised that the table vendor would have paid money for the gun without inspecting the bore. The barrel could have been a proverbial "sewer pipe" for all he knew...

Something doesn't add up here....

 

[ExTank]

Considering the number of people I see at a typical gun show around here, it's difficult to find a safe direction to point the muzzle while inspecting a firearm. About the only safe direction I can think of is up.

Most are lying flat on a table and therefore pointing at every person that walks by.

Even picking one up, you're liable to sweep someone, however briefy, hwever unintentionally, as you move the muzzle from the horizontal to the vertical.

 

[DammitBoy]

Went to a Gunshow today, emerged unscathed...

 

[69Rebel]

I was there when it happened. I had a table myself, in the same row, with one table between myself and the vendor who fired the rifle. I investigated the incident, and here is the whole, correct story.
The rifle was brought to the show by the vendor, it had been in his closet for several years, apparently with a round chambered in it. The rifle was a lever-action Savage. It looked like a model 99 in .300 Savage. It was a lever gun, not a bolt action.
Anywho, the vendor brought it from home to the show on Friday night during setup. He tied the lever to the stock with a tie, but never checked the chamber. He took for granted that it was unloaded.
I don't know if he was getting ready to show the rifle to someone or what, but after covering a number of people with the muzzle, he pointed it at the floor at about a 25 degree angle and either bumped or pulled the trigger.
He was at the table right off the endcap table, I was a the third table from the endcap. Across the aisle from the endcap was the row of tables along the wall.
The bullet went through the other vendor's table cover, bounced off the floor (crossing a crowded aisle), through an empty rifle case, into another rifle case that contained a barreled action (hitting it hard enough on the bottom of the chamber to knock the sights off) and then veered through the bottom of a tote and coming to rest deep in a gun book of some sort.
There were easily 20 people in the near vicinity. It's an absolute miracle no one was hit. Had that vendor been left-handed, I and a few others would probably be in the hospital right now, or worse.

 

[hartcreek]

If you read through the poasts on that link you find that a person brought it in before the show and the .308 went throug at least two vendors hands and the weapon was not cleared. Someone should have cleared it at the door since this was a for sale weapon. Here in Washington I go to gun shows and just saw no if they ask if I am selling something.....it hasnt happened yet but I will NOT be searched and if that is attempted I will arrest that PERSON ON THE SPOT. It is a civil rights violation plain and simple. Wih me bing a person of disability it is a felony.

 

[jcwit]

There are small, but real, risks involved in going to gun shows, just as there are small, but real, risks in flying in airplanes. I go to gun shows anyway. There's more of a chance of being hit by a car on the way to the parking lot than of being shot at the show.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[jcwit]

If you read through the poasts on that link you find that a person brought it in before the show and the .308 went throug at least two vendors hands and the weapon was not cleared. Someone should have cleared it at the door since this was a for sale weapon. Here in Washington I go to gun shows and just saw no if they ask if I am selling something.....it hasnt happened yet but I will NOT be searched and if that is attempted I will arrest that PERSON ON THE SPOT. It is a civil rights violation plain and simple. Wih me bing a person of disability it is a felony.

Good to know we have at least one person who never errors.

 

[69Rebel]

If you read through the poasts on that link you find that a person brought it in before the show and the .308 went throug at least two vendors hands and the weapon was not cleared.

That is not correct. The vendor brought that rifle in, and has been 86'd from Wes' shows.
It was a lever-action Savage in .300 Savage.
The part about the vendor bringing in the rifle comes straight from Wes. I saw the rifle myself. Absolutely a Savage lever gun.

 

[Ryanxia]

I keep hearing about these gunshows that have zip tied firearms, to me that would take all the fun out of going!

At our local show that happens twice a year, a few vendors will zip tie them but most don't. And aside from liking to manipulate a firearm before potentially buying it, I don't like to pick something up without checking it first (even zip tied).
Kind of like Cabelas that starting putting trigger locks on all their used guns, I don't bother going over to check them out anymore.

 

[bannockburn]

Was at a gun show years ago, before zip ties became mandatory, and there was a ND in the back portion of the hall. Sounded like a loud "pop" and I remember hearing it, figuring it was a ND. Didn't see or hear any big commotion going on from where it happened and I went back to looking at the stuff on the tables. Don't know exactly what happened and have not heard of another one since then.

 

[69Rebel]

Any vendor who won't cut a tie to allow proper examination of a firearm isn't worth dealing with. There are way too many people with poor gun-handling manners to have them not tied in such a manner as to make them inoperable.

 

[Ryanxia]

Any vendor who won't cut a tie to allow proper examination of a firearm isn't worth dealing with. There are way too many people with poor gun-handling manners to have them not tied in such a manner as to make them inoperable.

I guess just depends where you are. We don't have them tied at ours and I don't believe we've ever had a problem. In fact where you can assume you're always being swept and what not, most people at our show are pretty conscious about muzzle direction/booger hook not being on the boom switch. But hey, different things work for different people.