nervous!

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Axis II

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as most know I'm a new loader of 223rem.

my current inventory is h335-bench mark-cci br4, 400 primers, 55gr v max bullets, once fired hornady, rem brass.

now my issue is i seen on another forum a guy blew up an AR with h335 today and another guy said he did the same. neither know why.

this is making me nervous because that's what i will be using. I have lyman and hornady books and as the OP in the other forum stated one book said something different than the other.

my only thing i think i did wrong was not get a beam scale as i cant really afford $100 on a scale so i picked up a lyman micro touch.

do you guys think i should get a beam or just check weights for the electric?

also any other advice? i going to read both books again tomorrow. I then see guys talking about comparators, ogive, chasing the lans, etc. I just want accurate 200-250yard v max ammo. not interested in chasing different loads or bullets. etc.
 
Something went wrong, other than overcharging, if they indeed blew up an AR loading 223 with 335. IMO, there's not enough case volume to fit enough powder that will blow up a gun that is in good working order.

Assume they are using a 55 gr bullet. Hodgdons website will call for somewhere around 25.3 gr of powder. An average 223 case holds 30 gr (H20) and the bullet has to fit somewhere.

It just doesn't add up, unless this was a severely compressed charge and an overly tight crimp.

My guess is pistol powder made it onto their bench somehow.
 
No problems using H335 for me in recommended charge weights, even in the summer where I am, with outside temps may be 110 F and ammo gets hot in the sunshine.

I have never tried to stuff as much H335 in a case and fire it and see what happens but probably not good things.

My first thoughts would be a possible squib leaving a bullet stuck in the barrel, slamfire, or maybe not H335 when they thought it was. (the last is most likely the case IMO)

Another thought would be possible powder decay.

Lots of people use H335 in .223/5.56 and other calibers without issue.
Not my favorite .223 powder, but it seems to be a lot of peoples favorite.
Work up a load in the listed charge range and fire away.
 
I agree with others, probably wrong powder on the bench. As long as you're safe and follow manuals you're good.

If you don't have a ton to spend how about a Lee beam scale? Some people can't get used to the vernier reading. I bought one 5 years ago with intentions of upgrading but I haven't yet after using it to check hundreds of powder throws and hand weighing many charges. A good set of check weights may cost more than the scale.
 
There is a pretty wide margin between max published load, and "blow up your gun". You don't get there without a serious and blatant error. When working up a load, there is no cliff to fall off of. There are pressure signs and other indicators long before you get to that point. it's especially hard to blow up with a rifle round, as most recipes involve a case full of powder, unless a wrong powder is accidentally used.
 
Sounds to me like a squib and another round fired with an obstructed barrel. That could blow up an AR.
 
Ive used a LOT of H335, so I agree with the above

user error someplace

My goto with 55gr Pills is 25gr, works great for me
 
H335 has to be in the top 5, if not, top 3 powders used for 223. I HIGHLY doubt the KB was related to the powder itself.

I'm calling bullet setback as #1 culprit, followed by oob discharge.

Where can a guy see some pics of this KB?
 
H335 works great on my end with 55g FMJs. My go to powder right next to CFE223. Hard to argue over which is better. Had to of been user error
 
If you use a powder like H4895, which is even bulkier than H335, a max charge will fill the case right up into the neck, pretty much impossible to over-charge it.

I agree with the others, most likely an error on the loaders part.

Also, a 5.56 chamber is proof tested to 20% over saami max, which is 62,500 psi.
 
Could you define what "blow up" is. Did the barrel chamber burst/split or did the mag get blown out and the stock damaged? Or is the gun in total pieces? There are variations to a "blow up" and can be caused by different things. Got any pics?
 
I've only had an AR two years. I have only used two powders. Tac and H-335 and bullet weights of the 55gr to 69gr variety. I've not seen problems and I load in the same charge weight as mentioned earlier.

Just follow the books. Be safe.

Mark
 
I will venture another guess, although I agree it was likely a really fast powder rather than what they thought it was....anyways, if a person were to run to max load, and load it long for some reason (wouldn't fit in mag), or fail to crimp...then I can see where a bullet might try to pull forward in the case when it gets slammed into battery by the bolt, very much like what an impact puller would do. Have a hot round jammed into the rifling at the time of ignition and I think your going to see some trouble. I wouldn't think it would blow the gun up, but it would certainly spike pressure by having so much force stopping the bullet from starting it's journey forward from a dead stop.
 
Scooter22 said:
Could you define what "blow up" is. Did the barrel chamber burst/split or did the mag get blown out and the stock damaged? Or is the gun in total pieces? There are variations to a "blow up" and can be caused by different things. Got any pics?
Click to expand...
the guy on the other forum wasn't giving a heck of a lot of information. others asked if the gun actually blew up and he kind of skirted around it. the last post I see he said he took the rifle to a smith and the smith looked through the barrel at the light and said heck no don't shoot this gun. said something about throat erosion. then he says more to come.

that forum doesn't seem to have a good reloading tab like this one does so I seldom visit there but that post caught my eye cause its the powder I use.

he said AR-15 like 69gr SMK bullet with H335. another guy said he had an issue and was picking pieces of the gun out of his arm it was so bad.
 
You are not going to blow up your gun using good prescribed published loading data. Then too, "Blow Up" is a pretty broad term which different people tend to use in different context. It is not unusual for different manuals to present different data and this seems to really hold true for the .223 Remington. Since you mention:
my current inventory is h335-bench mark-cci br4, 400 primers, 55gr v max bullets, once fired hornady, rem brass.
Click to expand...

Here is what Hornady has to say in their 9th Edition for the .223 Remington with their 55gn. V-MAX loaded to a COL of 2.250". H335 Min Charge is 20.8 gn and the Max Charge is 23.2 gn.

The Lyman 49th Edition does reflect a greater charge for a 55 gn. JSP bullet with a C.O.L. of 2.060" Minimum 24.3gn. and Maximum 27.0gn.

As compared to some of my other manuals the Hornady load data is on the light side. Using H335 with 52gn. and 55 gn. bullets I was loading 26.0gn. of H335 to a COL of 2.250" and getting good results. That load was developed from a Sierra 50th Anniversary Edition manual some time ago.

You can try the Hornady loads as suggested but I really am unsure if they will cycle your AR. They will not blow it up, that I am pretty sure of. :) As you get started do not load a pile of rounds. Start by loading 5 or 10 rounds at a time working the charge up. Do not load a few hundred with something you are unsure of. Also as I have mentioned before using H335 powder I prefer the CCI 450 (or similar Magnum primer) for the ball or spherical powder. Just to insure good uniform ignition.

Anyway, do not let horror stories dissuade you, especially when the horror stories lack facts. Just work from known published data and you will be fine.

Ron
 
Reloadron said:
You are not going to blow up your gun using good prescribed published loading data. Then too, "Blow Up" is a pretty broad term which different people tend to use in different context. It is not unusual for different manuals to present different data and this seems to really hold true for the .223 Remington. Since you mention:


Here is what Hornady has to say in their 9th Edition for the .223 Remington with their 55gn. V-MAX loaded to a COL of 2.250". H335 Min Charge is 20.8 gn and the Max Charge is 23.2 gn.

The Lyman 49th Edition does reflect a greater charge for a 55 gn. JSP bullet with a C.O.L. of 2.060" Minimum 24.3gn. and Maximum 27.0gn.

As compared to some of my other manuals the Hornady load data is on the light side. Using H335 with 52gn. and 55 gn. bullets I was loading 26.0gn. of H335 to a COL of 2.250" and getting good results. That load was developed from a Sierra 50th Anniversary Edition manual some time ago.

You can try the Hornady loads as suggested but I really am unsure if they will cycle your AR. They will not blow it up, that I am pretty sure of. :) As you get started do not load a pile of rounds. Start by loading 5 or 10 rounds at a time working the charge up. Do not load a few hundred with something you are unsure of. Also as I have mentioned before using H335 powder I prefer the CCI 450 (or similar Magnum primer) for the ball or spherical powder. Just to insure good uniform ignition.

Anyway, do not let horror stories dissuade you, especially when the horror stories lack facts. Just work from known published data and you will be fine.

Ron
Click to expand...
Ron

I have both books. I don't shoot AR-15 so wont have to worry about cycling the round. thanks for all the help you provide me. I cant find 450 primers but will keep looking.
 
I have Lee safety scale you can have. If you want it PM me with your info and I will send it to you.
 
I'm a great believer in published load data and I agree with the majority of posts that there must have been other factors. I'm reminded of a recent post about structural integrity of autoloaders being at risk with continued excessive pressure, perhaps this was a factor in these particular rifles. I mean, it's possible. I'm a bolt man myself, but I've always wondered about the compatibility of ball powders with autoloaders to begin with because of the potential for "powder skeletons" to foul up internal mechanisms with tight tolerances. I vaguely recall reading about this while studying the development of ammunition for the M16: fouling was a problem with certain ball powders. I also agree with Colorado that a fuller case is better, and frankly I've always suspected that mil-spec velocity with a 16" barrel takes a lot more powder than it does for a 24" barrel anyway, but this is only speculation.
 
I have both a beam scale and a electronic. I use the beam scale. If I ever go to the range to test loads I may bring it to weigh charges.
 
A Lee beam scale costs less than the Lyman micro touch. Yes, if you are all thumbs, can't read a vernier scale or have really bad eyesight, it is difficult to use, but once you zero it, you can push the plastic button in on the charge weight and simply match the pointer on the beam to the line on the stand and you are good to go. I've gone through more than 8 pounds of H335 with 55g fmjbt and sp bullets. At 25 grains (best accuracy load for me) you can easily get a feeling of a proper charge by shaking the powder within a loaded cartridge. Likely someone had a squib, cycled the case out and shot another round and "blew up the gun". Several Youtube videos of people doing this. They pull the trigger, "nothing happens", they hand cycle another round into the chamber and kaboom.

Any time you pull the trigger and the shot does not feel right or nothing happens, you remove the magazine, clear the chamber and check for barrel obstructions. Works for handguns as well as rifles and shotguns.
 
Im getting a lot of overtime this week so I will be picking up a rcbs beam scale. nothing else to spend it on so why not a good scale. my eyes aren't the greatest and I do have huge hands so hope this works out.

I hope it comes with some really good instructions cause they seem pretty confusing.
 
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