New 1911 with optics - 45ACP or 10mm or 40S&W?

What's your advice on caliber?

  • Stick with 9mm - you shoot it best and it's cheap

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • Go 45ACP - it's a bigger hole, and you like it

    Votes: 8 27.6%

  • 40S&W is under rated and you should go with this as an in-between round

    Votes: 4 13.8%

  • 10mm is the best millimeter.

    Votes: 10 34.5%
  • Total voters
    29
Derek Zeanah

Derek Zeanah

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I'm trying to make the transition from irons to pistol optics because I'm finally willing to admit to myself that I have old eyes. In that pursuit, I put an optic on a double-stack 9mm 1911ish pistol yesterday.

It's weird, but I'm serious about it, and I think I can convert to the different way of pickup on the sight, and as I carry 1911s and my Stealth Arms Platypus is so good I'm going to order a Stealth Arms 1911 with an optic mount.

So now I'm stuck on three things: how hideous am I willing to go with color, ACRO or (non-enclosed) Holosun, and what caliber?

I went through Gunsite's 250 Pistol class with a steel 5" 45ACP, and then went to Tiger McKee for a week with a lightweight Commander in 45ACP, and did fine both places - the Stealth Arms will be all of 27 ounces in Commander configuration. I shoot a 9mm better than a 45ACP, but when I run some drills with a 9mm, then swap to a 45ACP my accuracy and speed is about the same for things like controlled pairs so I don't feel like I've giving up a whole lot if my carry gun has higher recoil but most of my weekly shooting is with the 9mm.

I know people smarter than me say all pistols suck in defensive usage and caliber choice doesn't matter, but I really struggle to believe that if you normalize for penetration (as all modern loadings seem to do) that the size of the hole you're making in an aggressor doesn't matter. I mean, there's got to be a difference between these if they all penetrate to the same depth, right?

1707311352149.png

So, as I overthink this I'm conflicted between:
  • Make the biggest hole - go 45ACP. Besides, you've already got ammo stacked.
  • You shoot 9mm best, and you can shoot your carry gun cheaply every other day with 9mm. It's shot placement that matters anyway.
  • In the gel tests, 40 S&W seems to almost always make a better wound track than the 9mm, and it opens more consistently than 45ACP (probably due to velocity) so it's a happy medium between the two, and is relatively low cost I think.
  • All the cool kids are shooting 10mm nowadays. It's not cheap, but the 2 I've shot didn't have terrible recoil, and with the right loading they seem about as effective as 357 mag seems to be. At least in gel - they open up as they should and don't seem to clog, likely because of velocity. But is it that much better than a 40?
With 9mm and 45ACP I've got lots of ammo set aside. 40S&W I've got some boxes of gold dots but not much more, but as I look it seems about as expensive as 9mm so still pretty affordable. 10mm I'd need to stock from scratch, and it doesn't look very cheap.

Oh, and how offensive do I go with color:

Basic:
1707312122056.png
I Love OD
1707312155768.png
Does this guy drive a 70's Cadillac?
1707312193829.png
Copper? Why?!?!?!?!
1707312214667.png
 
I actually don't mind any of the color options, but I'd lean toward OD myself. Then black, then whichever of the other 2 is cheaper.

I'm actually doing a similar caliber debate in my own head because of something that popped up the other day. It probably shouldn't even be a consideration but I'm trying to weigh out whether I should entertain the idea of a caliber switch. If I were to switch, it would be from .45 to (most likely) 38 Super but possibly 9mm.
10mm and .40 really aren't on my radar currently because I have a lot of ammo and components to load .9mm, 38 Super and .45. I'm enjoying not having to look for ammo/supplies/extra mags.
 
Howland937 said:
I actually don't mind any of the color options, but I'd lean toward OD myself. Then black, then whichever of the other 2 is cheaper.

I'm actually doing a similar caliber debate in my own head because of something that popped up the other day. It probably shouldn't even be a consideration but I'm trying to weigh out whether I should entertain the idea of a caliber switch. If I were to switch, it would be from .45 to (most likely) 38 Super but possibly 9mm.
Click to expand...
I have 9 mm , 40 , 38 super,45 auto, 45 super if you are considering going to 38 super you will like it better than 9 mm . I have 2 9mm guns and they will be my last . 38 super is a very under appreciated round I am possibly looking at another 1911 in 38 super I also have a S&W 627 PC 8 shot revolver in 38 super and just love both of my 38 supers .
 
As eyes age, so does the rest of the body. The reason I have a 9mm 1911 with red dot is because my eyes can see the sighting system and the slide is easy enough to rack until I get near infirmity.

In fact, I've been on the fence about swapping my .45 ACP Glock 36 for something in 9mm because it's simply getting harder to rack the slide consistently in a hurry. That frying pan finish on my 36 certainly adds to the slipperiness as well.
 
As to .40 S&W vs 10mm, a lot of commercial 10mm is downloaded to .40 speeds. Military Arms Channel calls them "pud loads", whatever that is. I handload to get up towards real 10mm power. Sig's stuff is pretty warm, FWIW. I haven't shot much commercial stuff.
 
I’m a 1911 junkie having 1911’s chambered in 8 different cartridges (45ACP, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 9x19, 38 Super, 38 Special, 38/45 Clerke, 22RF).

I have an S&W M610 revolver and the cartridge has not set my life on fire but it maybe as another poster said factories are down loading the 10 mm. I have not reloaded 10 mm yet.

I like heavy, slow moving bullets such as 45 ACP. The trade off with 38/9mm ammunition is you have a couple more rounds in the magazine.
 
Don't get over-enamored with expansion tests when selecting a caliber.

Premium bullets in any caliber are going to expand at close distances these days.

Its always going to cost less to shoot 9mm. If you are shooting a lot of rounds, you are just shooting at targets. Caliber matters very little if you are just knocking down plates at 15 yards.

For self-defense, hope you never have to shoot someone. But if you do, marksmanship matters. A slow .38 wadcutter in the thoracic cavity is game over REAL FAST in almost every situation. By contrast, a Black Talon in the butt may just make them mad. Marksmanship matters. The easiest way to be a super-deadly marksman is to get within an inch of a contact shot. Hard to miss that way, and it saves having to "find the dot" in order to make the shot.

I have all the calibers for no other reason than that I'm a gun geek. I'm Ok with that.

Sometimes I just feel like shooting my 45. I don't care what anyone says.
 
I honestly believe that the size of the hole you make in the lung or the liver doesn't really matter. Especially the lung. When you deflate a baloon, does it matter what size instrument you used?

Everything I've ever seen shot in the lung, walks a few steps and falls over dead.

I did once shoot a small deer in the heart with a 30-06 at close range. Right at dusk. Little bugger ran off. I could not find him because I was losing light. Had to come back the next morning. He had run about 40 yards from where I shot him. Probably did it in three or four seconds. If he had been some angry dude, I guess I would have had to kung-fu fight him for those three or four seconds. Then he would have been dead.
 
chicharrones said:
As eyes age, so does the rest of the body. The reason I have a 9mm 1911 with red dot is because my eyes can see the sighting system and the slide is easy enough to rack until I get near infirmity.

In fact, I've been on the fence about swapping my .45 ACP Glock 36 for something in 9mm because it's simply getting harder to rack the slide consistently in a hurry. That frying pan finish on my 36 certainly adds to the slipperiness as well.
Click to expand...
The only handgun I have with a red dot sight on it is this 1911.

Personnel preference, I'm not excited about a red dot sight. I'm not saying the red diot sights are bad, just not to my liking.

I have dabbled with some Burris small red dot sights, I still have one installed on a 22 LR AR-
15.

I like the ProPoint sight but it does not work well for quick follow up shots.

Don't let me discourage you from red dot sight, Like I said, it is a personnel thing.
 

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JohnMc said:
Oh, the '70s Cadillac is sharp
Click to expand...
I agree, that's what I'd go with. It isn't like you're going to be flashy as the pistol will be concealed.

I'd also go with the Holsun over the ARCO. I actually prefer the Holosun over the RMR...which is what all RDS are judged against

Caliber is always an interesting choice. While I enjoy shooting the .45ACP, I've been carrying the 9mm for over 30 years and never felt I was under-gunned...because shot placement, with any handgun, will always be more important than bullet diameter, expansion, or penetration.

I'm currently trying to transition to the SIG 320 Compact carrying a Holosun 507. Just have to get more comfortable with picking up the dot more quickly when presenting from the holster. I'm even considering going to IWB (Appendix) carry as it is more generally accessible for everyday carry.

The only 1911ish platform I currently carry is the Springfield Armory EMP...when dress code dictates
 
9mm

You shoot it better.
You already have plenty of ammo.
More ammo is plentiful to stock up on during better times (now)
10mm is still A boutique-ish cartridge. It is popular among gun enthusiasts only so we read about it a lot. IMO, it’s resurgence is only relevant to the hunting market as opposed to the EDC or range fun market.

It’s not sexy and new but 9mm just works On a lot of levels.
 
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45 acp - traditional choice
9mm - less recoil while still being a suitable caliber for self defense
10mm - Since the Delta Elite it belongs in 1911's and because bears.
40 - I like it in Glocks, in a 1911 no thanks.

Based on info in the OP I'm voting 9mm in this case.
 
Black or blued in a carry weapon for me. I carried a .45 for years and told myself I always would. Things change and 9mm has come a long way and is cheap. I have gone to dots because they just plain work for old eyes. I got a 9mm Colt Competition in stainless not long ago and she is a sweetheart even with the normal sights. I'm fixing to try EGWs Novak cut plate and put a dot on her for the range. For edc it's the Sig 365XL with an EPS Carry. Damn accurate pistol and carries well. All that being said I still have my .45s and shoot them pretty regular. I'm going down the 10mm rabbit hole now for woods carry and range time. The 10mm is great round as well...
 
cfullgraf said:
I’m a 1911 junkie having 1911’s chambered in 8 different cartridges (45ACP, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 9x19, 38 Super, 38 Special, 38/45 Clerke, 22RF).

I have an S&W M610 revolver and the cartridge has not set my life on fire but it maybe as another poster said factories are down loading the 10 mm. I have not reloaded 10 mm yet.

I like heavy, slow moving bullets such as 45 ACP. The trade off with 38/9mm ammunition is you have a couple more rounds in the magazine.
Click to expand...
Keep an eye on Underwood ammo’s website. They offer full power 10MM loads and often run sales on it.
 
Y'all had to mention 38 Super, didn't you?

I've been jonesing for a 357 Sig because I like the ballistics of 124 grain / 1450fps a lot. But it's expensive and maybe dying.

Then I saw this the other day from Dick Fairburn:

www.youtube.com

The Super 9s: Great for Self-Defense!

The HOT 9mm semi-auto cartridges can be excellent choices for self-defense, though few shooters choose them. From the old .38 Super to the Winchester 9x23mm...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

And I just looked at ammoseek and there's Buffalo Bore 38 Super rated at 1350fps with a 124gr bullet.

Decisions, decisions.
 
I plan on getting a Prodigy and putting a Holosun507k X2 on it when I go that route, though it will not be so much a daily carry gun as a larger capacity open carry choice as well as a range gun.
From your choices, 9mm with Holosun, in black.
 
I think 45acp when I think of a 1911 and with one exception, all of my 1911s are 45. The recoil is quite pleasant, but carry capacity and cost are at a disadvantage when compared to 9mm. So, I moved to 9mm recently when my two daughters were of an age to obtain an LTC (9mm Shield Plus). So, that’s a lot of ammunition and they don’t prefer .45.. so I switched. Assuming that I’m not shooting through barriers in a civilian self-defense scenario, I really don’t need the less controllability and possible extra legal scrutiny of 10mm. My current carry guns are M&P9 Shield Plus with fiber optic sights and the new M&P9 2.0 3.6” Compact with Holosun EPS MRS green/Badr RL Mini/Muddy Rivers Tactical Light Bearing Holster. That last combination is absolutely perfect. The holster is great and after wasting lots of money on holsters, I finally found a company that makes holsters to my liking. If I had found this combination earlier, I probably would not have ordered the Wilson. (I have a 4” double stack 9mm 1911 Wilson on order with iron sights.)

Regarding dot optics vs iron sights, I’m OK with either and I’ve needed reading glasses for over twenty-five years ago. I see so much drama regarding old age and seeing the front sight, histrionics regarding adopting dot optics, or astigmatism and dot optics. Spend time dry firing and your consistent acquisition of your dot will come around in no time. A big plus is that you will also pickup those iron sights with the same draw and presentation. Age and iron sights are not an issue. I use the distance area of my glasses when using irons… exactly like with the dot. The only real difference is that the front iron sight is blurry, whereas the green reticle and target are clearly in focus. Regarding astigmatism… You (generic you.. not directed to Op) might have astigmatism, but just make sure that you have some form of vision correction that also accurately corrects your astigmatism. Magically, you no longer have astigmatism. That said, not all dot optics have the same optical clarity.

Pistols only suck in self defense if you are not hitting the proper area of the target, you chose the wrong defensive ammunition/caliber, or if your shot is through a barrier.
 
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Love my P-365 nearly as much as I love my 1911s, so recently I got this P-365 Macro and put a Holosun EPS 6 MOA green dot on it.

It’s sweet!

I’m in the same boat, can’t shoot iron sights like I used to.

I still carry my 3” Kimber .45 ACP 1911, but the P-365 gets the bulk of time now.

Caliber smaliber, they are all light years ahead of where they were when we were kids. ED docs will all tell you, it’s not caliber, it’s shot placement. (I work in a hospital)

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