Calipers are tricky to purchase. If you go new Starrett for instance you have to make sure they're the made in the US ones. Their Chinese line are crap. SPI and Fowler are all Chinese and slightly worse than the Starrett Chinese but better than the store brand Chinese. Now in my opinion I'd rather pay for the store brand instead of the other 3 mentioned because they'll do the job and much much cheaper. Now the best electronic calipers are Mitutoyo hands down. They are worth the money and will last forever. If you want dial, any of the big 3 are very good quality and any of the others will get the job done. Just like any other tools. Do you want to pay for Snap-On or will Walmart brand suffice. Also most machinists take good care of their tools and most people don't know what they are or how much they're worth. I've gotten some great deals on eBay searching misspelled brands like staret or mititoyo.
new calipers
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jcwit
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And of course your Chinese made computer is of the highest quality.
It is but that has nothing to do with calipers. The Starrett Global Series I had bothered me because they were just slightly better than my SPI's and twice as expensive. For not much more I should've bought Mitutoyo. The cheap Chinese calipers do fine but they can't take constant use. Most machine shops won't allow them. They work great for light duty work. Especially for the price.
jmorris
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Never heard of that. The machine shops that I have worked at didn't allow final QC with employee owned tools though.
You can get any brand tool "certified" and many shops pay for that. From calipers to welders, that just amounts to checking them throughout their range though. For a reloader or guy at home that doesn't need a sticker on the back of it, he can just check them himself with gauge blocks and standards.
In any case your not going to be using calipers for QC work unless the tolerance is so large the measurements need not be precise.
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MikeS.
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A timely thread for me, I dropped my 30+ years old RCBS calipers a few days ago. When closed the pointer is sitting at the 7-8 o'clock position, not at high noon. This really sucks, my Dad bought me these calipers back when.
I bought a Frankford Arsenal set from Amazon as a replacement.
I bought a Frankford Arsenal set from Amazon as a replacement.
jcwit
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Not hard to reset the pointer if you have the correct tool and know how to do it. I'd suggest you take it down to a local machine shop, I'm sure someone there would be able to help you.
RainDodger
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I've got all kinds of calipers but I always go to the dial calipers. There's just something about being able to eyeball the needle in between marks... and you know in the back of your mind that the gears in the dial mechanism are probably more reliable than the electronics in the digital caliper that read the funny little marks on the caliper body... that's my two cents, even if it's not right!
jcwit
member
I understand liking the mechanical ones, but remember you're putting your life on the line with all the electronic stuff in your vehicle. There's my 2 cents.
When it matters, you do not trust a reading from any caliper. You compare with a known. Measure bullet, measure expander ball. All you care about is the difference. Measure case mouth taper crimp, measure brass over the base of the bullet. It ain't rocket science.
Measure OAL? Or case length? Who cares. If you think a mil is going to make a difference, I wanna know what bullets you are using.
If calipers are so crap to begin with, and micrometers are the only way to get an accurate reading, then why spend so much money on calipers for reloading? A lot of folks are attesting that crappy, splinter-pulling calipers work pretty darn well for reloading and lots of other things, too. If you're a machinist or a diemaker or something, then I can see where you will drop a few hundred on a pair to go along with all your other expensive equipment. And as much because you are making money with these tools and writing them off as a business expense. Reloading is just a hobby for most folks.
Measure OAL? Or case length? Who cares. If you think a mil is going to make a difference, I wanna know what bullets you are using.
If calipers are so crap to begin with, and micrometers are the only way to get an accurate reading, then why spend so much money on calipers for reloading? A lot of folks are attesting that crappy, splinter-pulling calipers work pretty darn well for reloading and lots of other things, too. If you're a machinist or a diemaker or something, then I can see where you will drop a few hundred on a pair to go along with all your other expensive equipment. And as much because you are making money with these tools and writing them off as a business expense. Reloading is just a hobby for most folks.
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And your medical equipment.
I am a machinist. Calipers are only good to about +-.005. I've used many different brands and I'd rather buy used Mit elec over cheap new ones, but that's just me. The Mits feel better. They're solid with good weight. I also don't like 6in calipers. 8in are a perfect size.
jmorris
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Why to have them?
Because they are cheaper and faster to use and often have sufficient accuracy for the job. If I am machining a part that has to be within say two ten thousandths (.0002) I will machine it close using calipers to measure the OD/ID then use micrometers/bore mic to bring it to final dimention.
Why to spend so much money on them?
That is one side of the argument here, that a $9 set will do all you need for reloading (that you can do with a caliper at least). Sure you can spend more than $100 on a set if it makes you feel better.
Do a search on calipers for reloading that Hornady, RCBS and all the others sell. They are the same calipers as the $9 HF ones. Just a different sticker on them and they cost another $20.
^ agreed.
But if you are looking at smaller measurements, this is simply not the case. I used regular calipers to gauge a distance of 0.401" with no problem. At that distance, you have less than 1/12th the potential error. I'm sure my $10.00 calipers are good enough to get within +- 1 mil or so at that range. And if needing a relative measurement, comparing to, say a particular bullet as my reference, and I just want the part to be at some particular difference in comparison, I am confident they are under 1 mil, maximum.
When the calipers go on the bullet and show .401, then they go on the plug and show .401, I know I'm within a half a mil, not 5 mils. Or maybe just a tiny hair more, if I'm extremely unlucky. I know this because the calipers register a nominal half a mil, and they read the same thing no matter how many times I put them on the object. If the bullets were any much more than .40125, they would register .401 1/2. If the plug were any much smaller than .40075, then it would register .400 1/2. That's the worst case scenario. And none of that even matters, because the end result of neck tension is what is important, and you can't measure that with calipers.
I'm not a machinist, but I use calipers quite often. And usually for measuring very small things, or very small relative differences. I have not lacked for the need of a large absolute measurement in my usage in reloading or otherwise.
You might forget how to do things with subpar tools. Most folks don't mill and machine large steel objects to other people's specifications, where going under by a couple mils will be costly. If we're doing it at all, where a mil or two matters, it's to make it fit something we already have in our hands to compare against.
If you're talking about absolute measurement of the longest range, then sure. If you need a length of 6.000", even an expensive pair of calipers may be off by 0.005", I will suppose.
But if you are looking at smaller measurements, this is simply not the case. I used regular calipers to gauge a distance of 0.401" with no problem. At that distance, you have less than 1/12th the potential error. I'm sure my $10.00 calipers are good enough to get within +- 1 mil or so at that range. And if needing a relative measurement, comparing to, say a particular bullet as my reference, and I just want the part to be at some particular difference in comparison, I am confident they are under 1 mil, maximum.
When the calipers go on the bullet and show .401, then they go on the plug and show .401, I know I'm within a half a mil, not 5 mils. Or maybe just a tiny hair more, if I'm extremely unlucky. I know this because the calipers register a nominal half a mil, and they read the same thing no matter how many times I put them on the object. If the bullets were any much more than .40125, they would register .401 1/2. If the plug were any much smaller than .40075, then it would register .400 1/2. That's the worst case scenario. And none of that even matters, because the end result of neck tension is what is important, and you can't measure that with calipers.
I'm not a machinist, but I use calipers quite often. And usually for measuring very small things, or very small relative differences. I have not lacked for the need of a large absolute measurement in my usage in reloading or otherwise.
You might forget how to do things with subpar tools. Most folks don't mill and machine large steel objects to other people's specifications, where going under by a couple mils will be costly. If we're doing it at all, where a mil or two matters, it's to make it fit something we already have in our hands to compare against.
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jmorris
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Another need for calipers in relation to their cost is micrometers can get very expensive.
Like these sets.
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/86436185
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/58701988
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/86896339
Is $20,000+ of tools at risk vs $400, if you don't need the extra precision.
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/85956506
If you go to the links you can see that they cost many thousands of dollars. Having them out of harms way until the precision they have is needed is quite common. Using instead "cheap" tools as often as one can.
Like these sets.
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/86436185
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/58701988
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/86896339
Is $20,000+ of tools at risk vs $400, if you don't need the extra precision.
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/85956506
If you go to the links you can see that they cost many thousands of dollars. Having them out of harms way until the precision they have is needed is quite common. Using instead "cheap" tools as often as one can.
You're completely right. Especially if you're doing relative measuring to another object like a gage pin or plug. I'm just saying as someone who's used many different brands on a day to day basis the cheap ones don't hold up. Now I personally have bought very nice used tools through eBay, garage sales, auctions, estate sales, and flea markets for about the same price as the cheap Chinese counterpart. I don't mind used tools as long as they were cared for. Also just like any other tools If you're on a budget or you'll only use them for light duty work the HF sets will do the job. As for HF compared to the reloading brands or store brands like Lowes or HD. I'd buy the HF ones because they are the same caliper. The .005 rule is just one I was taught and I live by. It's pretty much this, if what ever you're checking has to be within .005 then find another tool. The calipers might do great and repeat but they aren't the tool to be using if you want an exact measurement. The other point I was trying to make is I've used Fowler, China no name, SPI, Starrett global(Chinese), and Mit electronic calipers and in my opinion there's really only 2 options, Mit or China. The Mits are the best electronic calipers out there. All the middle brands are over priced for what they are. The Chinese ones will save you money and be close to the Starrett Global series. Now if you want the best Chinese calipers you can buy then by all means get the Starrett Globals but otherwise save your money. I've used B&S and US Starrett ones also but they were older models so I didn't mention them.
Paddy
member
For years I swore by the HF dials, but the last 2 sets I've purchased have been complete rubbish. So, at the rate that those are failing, they are not affordable anymore. Plus, after purchasing a B&S set last year that has no thumb wheel, Im not sure I can run another thumb wheel ever! I also tried a set of TESA calipers, very nice as well.
Most Tesa and B&S tools are the same. Tesa makes very nice stuff. I know they make the B&S bestest indicators. I can't stand not having the wheel though.
Paddy
member
Have you tried one without the wheel? I couldn't believe how much nicer it is. It takes a bit of getting used to, but the wheel is pointless to me now.
Potatohead
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I didnt have much luck with the cheapys. Wouldnt hold zero.
^ Yup. I hardly ever have to re-zero. And when I think I do (half a mil, usually), it's often just a matter of wiping the jaws.
It's eerie. I can leave the jaws open, even. Come back and shut the jaws, get ready to re-zero, and the calipers wake up from the movement. The screen comes alive : "0.000" It's just not right for $10.00 calipers to work this well. The only scary thing is if the battery gets too low, the measurement will start to screw up without an explicit warning.
Same goes for digital multimeters. I know this is a weird analogy to most of you. But I dabble in electronics design. I have never purchased an expensive multimeter, and I have never needed one. I was gifted a name brandy Fluke (which is what Mit is to the caliper world), which I have never even used. I have several multimeters which I have never paid more than $20.00 for, and I'm chiefly looking for ergos, display readability, and fast turn-on time. I have cheap oscilloscopes that I have never calibrated. It just doesn't matter, unless you are working on a small piece of a larger puzzle where tolerance stacking on your end might come into play with someone else working on another aspect on the other side of the continent. If you're responsible for your product or end result from start to finish, your measurement tool is 100% correct, all the time. It doesn't need to be certified by the London Department of Weights and Measures!
It's eerie. I can leave the jaws open, even. Come back and shut the jaws, get ready to re-zero, and the calipers wake up from the movement. The screen comes alive : "0.000" It's just not right for $10.00 calipers to work this well. The only scary thing is if the battery gets too low, the measurement will start to screw up without an explicit warning.
Same goes for digital multimeters. I know this is a weird analogy to most of you. But I dabble in electronics design. I have never purchased an expensive multimeter, and I have never needed one. I was gifted a name brandy Fluke (which is what Mit is to the caliper world), which I have never even used. I have several multimeters which I have never paid more than $20.00 for, and I'm chiefly looking for ergos, display readability, and fast turn-on time. I have cheap oscilloscopes that I have never calibrated. It just doesn't matter, unless you are working on a small piece of a larger puzzle where tolerance stacking on your end might come into play with someone else working on another aspect on the other side of the continent. If you're responsible for your product or end result from start to finish, your measurement tool is 100% correct, all the time. It doesn't need to be certified by the London Department of Weights and Measures!
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An expensive fluke is nice to have, and I use mine occasionally, but usually just use this simple one. It does voltage and continuity, and will do amps without needing a different attachment (Yes, I have that for my pricy Fluke). If I go out to look at something I carry the 75-600, a 10/1 screwdriver, and a small pair of Knipex pliers in a pouch that fits in my back pocket. I can do many things with just those. The Knipex pliers are pricy, but mine are around 19 years old and look and work like new. If I need more than those things, I call someone to go take care of it, or go get a tool bag full of goodies. I used to carry a home made tool box everywhere.
There are times we need the best, and times when we do not.
There are times we need the best, and times when we do not.
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