New Progressive press for the new year?

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Just a computer generated image but looks like Frankford Arsenal is joining the ranks. Maybe a Chinese version of a Mark 7 that’s obviously influenced by the Dillon 1050, that was influenced by the Star?

https://www.shootcenter.com/product/frankford-f10-progressive-press/
I'm curious what the board reputation is on FA. I dont even consider their products ever because as far as I know it's all made foreign. That may be bias but I try to support what little we still make here even if it costs a little more.
 
Frankford Arsenal Frankford Arsenal, Black, 10 Station Press, Optional Case And Bullet Feeder, Case Activated Powder Measure, Spring Loaded Case Locator Buttons, In Line Primer Pocket Swaging 1135898

10 station?

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When you consider that the manually operated Mark 7 Evolution is over $3k and the FA F-10 looks like it's going to be <$500, if it's more that 20% as good you'd be ahead...sorry, that's a math joke

I've always wanted a 10 station reloading press...I actually would have settled for 8...but could never get over the price point. (Yes, I regret not jumping on board at the introductory price of $2500)

FA reloading stuff targets the same demographic as Lee and , like Lee, is functional. Sounds like it would be worth it if all you loaded was plinking handgun ammo. Better quality than that would all be gravy
 
When you consider that the manually operated Mark 7 Evolution is over $3k and the FA F-10 looks like it's going to be <$500, if it's more that 20% as good you'd be ahead...sorry, that's a math joke

I've always wanted a 10 station reloading press...I actually would have settled for 8...but could never get over the price point. (Yes, I regret not jumping on board at the introductory price of $2500)

FA reloading stuff targets the same demographic as Lee and , like Lee, is functional. Sounds like it would be worth it if all you loaded was plinking handgun ammo. Better quality than that would all be gravy
What do you get with more than 4 stations that adds any value.
 
What do you get with more than 4 stations that adds any value.
A separate station for each function/operation

I considered a couple of 4 station presses before I bought my first progressive. Doesn't really work when you want to separate seating from crimping, have a powder check/cop/lock-out die, have a bullet feeder, and until recently if you wanted to run an expander with an M-die profile.

The Mark 7 allows you to swag primer pockets and trim cases after sizing without removing the case from the shell plate. I wouldn't expect the F-10 to have an app adjustable powder measure or an automatic primer feed that the Mark 7 Revolution have available, but just the extra stations will perk the interest of many reloaders
 
6 stations would allow me to use my lockout die on pistol while maintaining my bullet feed die and separate seat/crimp operations.
The 7 station RCBS unit would work, but the price of entry along with everything else that goes with it can add up quickly.

Soooo, as I like my LNL AP, and I'm well-vested in LNL AP related 'stuff', I'm secretly hoping Hornady is developing something with 6-7 stations that might be able to make use of a few of my 5 station AP-related items.
 
What do you get with more than 4 stations that adds any value.

I can only speak for .223/5.56, since that is what I load on my Mark 7 Evo, but.....

1 case feed
2 sizer/deprimer(I use this as a universal decapper)
3 size/trim/swage primer pocket(lyman trim dies resize your brass, trim it, and also work as a perfect hold down for the swaging step)
4 primer seating
5 neck expander
6 powder throw
7 powder check
8 bullet feeder
9 bullet seating
10 crimp

Yep...single pass for .223/5.56 brass. Beats the hell out of my lee turret press for making range ammo. Makes cranking out 1000+ rounds of ammo easily doable in an hour. Considering I go through between 1000 and 1500 rounds a month on average, I didn't really want to be sitting there for 15-20 hours on my lee press just to load the ammo I go through each month.
 
6 stations would allow me to use my lockout die on pistol while maintaining my bullet feed die and separate seat/crimp operations.
The 7 station RCBS unit would work, but the price of entry along with everything else that goes with it can add up quickly.

Soooo, as I like my LNL AP, and I'm well-vested in LNL AP related 'stuff', I'm secretly hoping Hornady is developing something with 6-7 stations that might be able to make use of a few of my 5 station AP-related items.

Me too, Me too.
 
I can only speak for .223/5.56, since that is what I load on my Mark 7 Evo, but.....

1 case feed
2 sizer/deprimer(I use this as a universal decapper)
3 size/trim/swage primer pocket(lyman trim dies resize your brass, trim it, and also work as a perfect hold down for the swaging step)
4 primer seating
5 neck expander
6 powder throw
7 powder check
8 bullet feeder
9 bullet seating
10 crimp

Yep...single pass for .223/5.56 brass. Beats the hell out of my lee turret press for making range ammo. Makes cranking out 1000+ rounds of ammo easily doable in an hour. Considering I go through between 1000 and 1500 rounds a month on average, I didn't really want to be sitting there for 15-20 hours on my lee press just to load the ammo I go through each month.
Wow I never expected all of those things to be separate stations. The sizing and seating primer has always been one station in.my mind. I never expected to see three powder stations. Is there advantages to separating out all these steps. Really asking because I'm not a progressive guy not just trolling.
 
I wouldn`t detour anyone who would want one, but FA? Sorry, no thanks. Its hard for me to support (or give MY money to) any company who has things made in china.
No stores in my area even carry FA products. Those who use to, do not, anymore. I suspect quality and getting factory support and parts was the problem. (so i was told by dealers)

More Stations = More Issues
KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid

Stick with only USA made.
Support those, who support us.
 
I'm willing to take a look at it when it hits the market, RCBS has been having their presses made in China also. I haven't heard any major complaints about them.
I don't want to discourage any company from bringing new products to our world.

It will be interesting to see how they will warranty the press though, if they want to compete with Hornady, Dillon, RCBS, and Lee.
They have their work cut out for them.
 
I'm willing to take a look at it when it hits the market, RCBS has been having their presses made in China also. I haven't heard any major complaints about them.

I haven’t heard much about their new progressives since they had so many problems after being released. They couldn’t send out new parts as fast as they were breaking.
 
I'm willing to take a look at it when it hits the market, RCBS has been having their presses made in China also. I haven't heard any major complaints about them.
I don't want to discourage any company from bringing new products to our world.

It will be interesting to see how they will warranty the press though, if they want to compete with Hornady, Dillon, RCBS, and Lee.
They have their work cut out for them.
It`ll be interesting to see how many parts they`ll have on hand to fix their broken progressive press units.
Friend of mine bought one of those FA primer pocket swagers. Didnt make it 10 rounds before it broke. (handle broke off)
He cant even get them to send him the parts to fix it. Says alot about their customer service. I loaned him my old RCBS swager until his gets fixed, or replaced by a better USA MADE brand.
 
Wow I never expected all of those things to be separate stations. The sizing and seating primer has always been one station in.my mind. I never expected to see three powder stations. Is there advantages to separating out all these steps. Really asking because I'm not a progressive guy not just trolling.

This is going to be long, but I hope you will take the time to read it.

In a press where you are feeding bullets by hand and the shell plate doesn't rotate, some of the parts aren't needed. Realistically, you do most of these steps, though. For example, you trim your rifle brass, right? You swage or team the primer pocket on rifle brass with crimped primer pockets, right? Of course you do(or you should, anyway). You seat a primer, right?

Let's break it down into the stages/stations, and compare that between the two.

Case feeding: This has to be done somewhere, or else the brass is never making it to the press. With a single stage or turret press, you are typically the case feeder, and you feed the brass into the shell holder by hand. On a progressive, some of them are fed by hand, and some are fed by an actual tool for feeding cases. In the case of the mark 7(and Dillon and Hornady progressives with a case feeder), there is a hopper where the brass is dumped in. It orient's them the correct direction, and drops them down a tube where they are fed into the shell plate. So, this would be a station that is typically done by hand with a single stage or turret press. Most people don't give any thought to this, but it is effectively a "stage" that they are doing on their own. With a progressive, this stage is typically just given its own station, but sometimes integrated with the first station(sizing/decapping/etc).

Resize/decap: One way or another, we all knock the spent primer out of our brass. Some people do it with the standard resizing die, others do it with a universal decapper, and then resize later. I prefer using a universal decapper, as it gives me a more positive removal of the primer(mine has a spring that shoots the primer down once it is free of the pocket, which prevents it from getting sucked back up into the brass and binding things up). If you do this off-press, it is still another stage, even though most people don't think of it as being one.

Resize/trim/swage: Let's start with the resizing portion. You may have done that in the decapping step, you may have not. Either way, it has to happen at some point. I use a Lyman trim die that resizes to the proper size, while also preparing for trimming. If you reload rifle brass, you know you have to trim it from time to time. Most people will do this off-press, which means they effectively have another stage that they aren't considering, simply because they do it off the press. The trim die I use, in addition to resizing, allows a portion of the neck to get squeezed out the top, and then a router with a cutting bit on it trims it to the proper size all in one step. Now, onto swaging. If you reload military brass, you WILL run into crimped primers. You can either ignore the crimp(and likely smash numerous primers by doing so) and have minimal luck priming the brass, ream out the crimp, or swage the crimp out. Most people will go with a reamer, or sometimes a bench mounted swager. Either way, this is another step or stage that has to be completed, which people again don't think much of because it typically isn't being done on-press.

Primer seating: So, if you want your ammo to go bang, they need a primer. Some people will either use a hand primer, and other will use a press mounted priming tool that inserts the primer as the ram is going down. Single stage and turret presses effectively make one station into two stages by doing this at the bottom of the ram's stroke. On a progressive, this is often done in its own station.

Neck expansion: So here is where things get a little weird. Reloading rifle rounds on a single stage or turret press, where you are feeding the bullets by hand and the shell holder doesn't move side to side, it isn't really needed. However, when you are on a progressive and use a bullet feeder, it is helpful for seating boat tail bullets, and even far more helpful for flat based bullets. If you have ever seated flat based bullets by hand, you know you basically have to hold them there until they are in the seating die, or they want to fall over. This isn't really an issue if you are doing it by hand, as you just hold them in place. With a bullet feeder, if they are prone to falling off just by going up and down, you can imagine how quickly they will fall off when the shell plate indexes horizontally to the next station(seating). Using a neck expander opens up the top 1/16 or so of an inch of the case neck just over the bullet diameter, sort of giving it a hole to fall into and stay put. This really has no use for powder charging in rifle rounds.

Powder charge: Powder has to get in there somehow. You can either use a powder thrower off press, powder thrower on press, dippers and a funnel off press, or weigh each charge in a pan and pour it through a funnel off press. Either way, we all do this stage/station at some point. In a progressive, it is done on press, and throws the amount of powder you have adjusted for right into the case.

Powder check: Here is another odd one more specific to progressives. With a single stage or turret, the brass is right there in front of you and the powder charge is clearly visible. On a progressive, the powder throw station can be all the way at the back of the press, and seeing the powder level in the brass can be a challenge without removing the case. Removing the case defeats the idea of the progressive press. A powder check will have a lightweight rod that dips into the case, sits on the powder, and goes up to a certain level when the powder is between a certain charge range. If it isn't in the right range(too low meaning not enough powder or too high meaning too much powder), the powder check will beep or make some sort of screeching noise telling you to stop. This simply alleviates the need to manually look in each case for the proper powder charge.

Bullet feeder: Exactly what the name says. It is a die that feeds bullets and drops them onto the case to be seated instead of you having to do so by hand. Here is there that neck expander for rifles comes in handy. Since the shell plate is what rotates between stations, if the shell plate moves too quickly, the bullet can fall off when the shell plate rotates to the next station. With the neck expanded a tiny bit, it gives the bullet somewhere to firmly stay in place.

Seating: Same as seating on any other press. I prefer crimping in a separate die after seating, but this is all preference.

Crimping: This can sometimes be combined with seating, but I prefer using a lee factory crimp die in a separate station. The crimp removes any excess flare from that neck expanding die as well as crimps it to your preferred amount of crimp. From here, as the shell plate rotates, the base of the brass hits an ejector and gets spit out of the shell plate. On my press, I use a 3d printed funnel that hooks to a shop vac hose, and this drops it right down into an ammo can to be stored away.

Hopefully that provides a little more insight.
 
This is going to be long, but I hope you will take the time to read it.

In a press where you are feeding bullets by hand and the shell plate doesn't rotate, some of the parts aren't needed. Realistically, you do most of these steps, though. For example, you trim your rifle brass, right? You swage or team the primer pocket on rifle brass with crimped primer pockets, right? Of course you do(or you should, anyway). You seat a primer, right?

Let's break it down into the stages/stations, and compare that between the two.

Case feeding: This has to be done somewhere, or else the brass is never making it to the press. With a single stage or turret press, you are typically the case feeder, and you feed the brass into the shell holder by hand. On a progressive, some of them are fed by hand, and some are fed by an actual tool for feeding cases. In the case of the mark 7(and Dillon and Hornady progressives with a case feeder), there is a hopper where the brass is dumped in. It orient's them the correct direction, and drops them down a tube where they are fed into the shell plate. So, this would be a station that is typically done by hand with a single stage or turret press. Most people don't give any thought to this, but it is effectively a "stage" that they are doing on their own. With a progressive, this stage is typically just given its own station, but sometimes integrated with the first station(sizing/decapping/etc).

Resize/decap: One way or another, we all knock the spent primer out of our brass. Some people do it with the standard resizing die, others do it with a universal decapper, and then resize later. I prefer using a universal decapper, as it gives me a more positive removal of the primer(mine has a spring that shoots the primer down once it is free of the pocket, which prevents it from getting sucked back up into the brass and binding things up). If you do this off-press, it is still another stage, even though most people don't think of it as being one.

Resize/trim/swage: Let's start with the resizing portion. You may have done that in the decapping step, you may have not. Either way, it has to happen at some point. I use a Lyman trim die that resizes to the proper size, while also preparing for trimming. If you reload rifle brass, you know you have to trim it from time to time. Most people will do this off-press, which means they effectively have another stage that they aren't considering, simply because they do it off the press. The trim die I use, in addition to resizing, allows a portion of the neck to get squeezed out the top, and then a router with a cutting bit on it trims it to the proper size all in one step. Now, onto swaging. If you reload military brass, you WILL run into crimped primers. You can either ignore the crimp(and likely smash numerous primers by doing so) and have minimal luck priming the brass, ream out the crimp, or swage the crimp out. Most people will go with a reamer, or sometimes a bench mounted swager. Either way, this is another step or stage that has to be completed, which people again don't think much of because it typically isn't being done on-press.

Primer seating: So, if you want your ammo to go bang, they need a primer. Some people will either use a hand primer, and other will use a press mounted priming tool that inserts the primer as the ram is going down. Single stage and turret presses effectively make one station into two stages by doing this at the bottom of the ram's stroke. On a progressive, this is often done in its own station.

Neck expansion: So here is where things get a little weird. Reloading rifle rounds on a single stage or turret press, where you are feeding the bullets by hand and the shell holder doesn't move side to side, it isn't really needed. However, when you are on a progressive and use a bullet feeder, it is helpful for seating boat tail bullets, and even far more helpful for flat based bullets. If you have ever seated flat based bullets by hand, you know you basically have to hold them there until they are in the seating die, or they want to fall over. This isn't really an issue if you are doing it by hand, as you just hold them in place. With a bullet feeder, if they are prone to falling off just by going up and down, you can imagine how quickly they will fall off when the shell plate indexes horizontally to the next station(seating). Using a neck expander opens up the top 1/16 or so of an inch of the case neck just over the bullet diameter, sort of giving it a hole to fall into and stay put. This really has no use for powder charging in rifle rounds.

Powder charge: Powder has to get in there somehow. You can either use a powder thrower off press, powder thrower on press, dippers and a funnel off press, or weigh each charge in a pan and pour it through a funnel off press. Either way, we all do this stage/station at some point. In a progressive, it is done on press, and throws the amount of powder you have adjusted for right into the case.

Powder check: Here is another odd one more specific to progressives. With a single stage or turret, the brass is right there in front of you and the powder charge is clearly visible. On a progressive, the powder throw station can be all the way at the back of the press, and seeing the powder level in the brass can be a challenge without removing the case. Removing the case defeats the idea of the progressive press. A powder check will have a lightweight rod that dips into the case, sits on the powder, and goes up to a certain level when the powder is between a certain charge range. If it isn't in the right range(too low meaning not enough powder or too high meaning too much powder), the powder check will beep or make some sort of screeching noise telling you to stop. This simply alleviates the need to manually look in each case for the proper powder charge.

Bullet feeder: Exactly what the name says. It is a die that feeds bullets and drops them onto the case to be seated instead of you having to do so by hand. Here is there that neck expander for rifles comes in handy. Since the shell plate is what rotates between stations, if the shell plate moves too quickly, the bullet can fall off when the shell plate rotates to the next station. With the neck expanded a tiny bit, it gives the bullet somewhere to firmly stay in place.

Seating: Same as seating on any other press. I prefer crimping in a separate die after seating, but this is all preference.

Crimping: This can sometimes be combined with seating, but I prefer using a lee factory crimp die in a separate station. The crimp removes any excess flare from that neck expanding die as well as crimps it to your preferred amount of crimp. From here, as the shell plate rotates, the base of the brass hits an ejector and gets spit out of the shell plate. On my press, I use a 3d printed funnel that hooks to a shop vac hose, and this drops it right down into an ammo can to be stored away.

Hopefully that provides a little more insight.
That sounds like quite the machine. If all that was going on one would want it motor driven like the Dillon to get consistent travel and pressure applied. I enjoy my reloading time and compared to that type of operation I use no volume. I could see a club or family of high volume shooters really benefiting from the capacity. Thanks for the breakdown.
 
That sounds like quite the machine. If all that was going on one would want it motor driven like the Dillon to get consistent travel and pressure applied. I enjoy my reloading time and compared to that type of operation I use no volume. I could see a club or family of high volume shooters really benefiting from the capacity. Thanks for the breakdown.

I would like to automate it, but I just don't see the added value for reloading .223/5.56 ammo. As I said in a previous post, I typically go through somewhere between 1000 and 1500 rounds of .223/5.56 per month, so volume matters to me. However, most progressives will use a primer feed system that holds 100 primers before needing refilled, give or take. In addition, most will use a powder hopper that contains around 1 pound(often less) of powder. The reason for the primers being around 100 is because if you have them detonate, 100 chain reacting is already a REALLY bad situation. Having something like 500-1000 just makes a really bad situation much more dangerous. Considering I can do about 1200 rounds an hour(though I typically go a bit slower and only do about 900-1000, this means I would have to refill the tube roughly every 6 or 7 minutes. If I am going to have to babysit the automated operation that much, I may as well just do it myself. The same with the hopper for powder applies here. A pound of powder is 7000 grains. I load 27 grains per round, meaning I get roughly 250-260 rounds before I need to refill it. Again, this would mean babysitting every 15 minutes or so, though this is made a moot point based on the primers being every 6 or 7 minutes.

Now, yes, I can get an automated primer collator, and that solves the primer issue. It still doesn't solve the need to be out there every 15 minutes to refill with powder. In addition, the primer collator for my press is $2250. That's a lot of money. And that is JUST the primer collating/feeding system.

Now, let's add on the autodrive. Well, that's another $2000. And even then, I will still have to babysit to make sure the bullets are fed properly and all. But wait, I can buy SENSORS(!!!!!) to do that for me! Bullet sensor...350 bucks. Swage sensor(don't need this if doing by hand, as I can feel binding)...250 bucks. Sensor to verify the primer was correctly removed(again, I will feel binding if doing this by hand)...200 bucks.

Yeah, fully automated sounds great, but realizing I am going to be throwing upwards of 5 grand at it to get it fully automated, and then still have to be out there every 15 minutes anyway to refill the powder hopper? I'll just spend my hour or two a month doing it by hand and use that 5 grand for far more important things.
 
https://www.gunsmidwest.com/frankford-f10-progressive-press.html
I guess it depends on where you prefer to shop, but street price seems to be just over $400
https://www.natchezss.com/frankford-arsenal-bullet-feeder-f10-progressive-press.html

As with many things, price is relative. A Shell plate for a Mark 7 cost about three times as much
https://www.markvii-loading.com/101-1068-1452.html

I'd also mention that a 10 station progressive press isn't really designed for frequent caliber changes. One usually sets it up for you most frequently loaded caliber and leaves it alone
 
It still doesn't solve the need to be out there every 15 minutes to refill with powder.
And that is just when it is set to pump out 1200 rounds an hour.

You can easily turn the speed up to double that...which means you'd be constantly feeding it primers, powder, bullets and cases...but then you'd have 10k rounds loaded in four hours
 
I could see a club or family of high volume shooters really benefiting from the capacity.
For me, it isn't so much about volume of output, but the time cost...or availability.

If I set up in the morning...powder charge, primers, bullets, and cases...I can load 100 rounds anytime I take a 10 minute break. If I have a free couple of hours, it's easy to load 1600 rounds on my Hornady LNL
 
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