New R51, brief range report

[beeenbag]

well I took a leap of faith and jumped on the rebates from Remington after christmas.

I wound up getting the R51 for $337 after fees and have sent my rebate in which will bring the total to $237.

To the important parts...

I decided to try the R51 right out of the box, normally I like to clean and apply my own lube first, but chose to give this thing a few rounds before hand. I noticed the mags were really stiff and I had a rough time loading the last couple rounds.

First two or 3 mags I'd have a failure to go into battery on the 2nd shot. This would happen every so often the remainder of 100 rounds, always on the second shot of a full mag. This was not a "nose dive" just a real laggy feeling slide movement during the recoil process. I'm going to chalk this up to new mag springs being extra stout.

So, I finished up, not feeling too great about my purchase and loaded the mags, leaving them loaded over night. I also disassembled the gun (that's a treat) cleaned it and re lubed with some frog lube.

Shooting today, I have had zero malfunctions 200 rounds in, including 50 rounds of xtp's. All fmj was 115g range ammo.

If the reliability proves to continue as the last 200 rounds have went, this could be a real treasure. The R51 seems to be a natural shooter for me, easily placing the rounds where I want them to go. Recoil is light (subjective statement) compared to other sub compact 9's I own and the trigger is fairly impressive for what it is.

I'm going to order 150 rounds of 124g +p gold dots to run through it and verify reliability with those, as well as another 2-300 range rounds before I deem it suitable for carry. I did carry it around the house in a cheaper iwb holster, seems to carry quite well to boot.

I'll kee ya updated with further outings.

 

[beeenbag]

Update, R51 has been traded in.

Next outing, ftf started again and continued to get worse. Had a gold dot 147g, pop straight up out of the mag after first shot and get hung with the primer resting on the top of the slide and bullet nose on the top of the barrel. Had never had that type of failure before.

Entirely too unreliable even after 500 rounds.

So that's my experience, take it for what you paid for it.

 

[Tommygunn]

Sorry it didn't work out for you.
This is a real shame....the R51 is a very nice gun ergonomically and seems very practical for ccw atleast superficially. Too bad that even R51 2.0 is not up to par.

 

[beeenbag]

Sorry it didn't work out for you.
This is a real shame....the R51 is a very nice gun ergonomically and seems very practical for ccw atleast superficially. Too bad that even R51 2.0 is not up to par.

I agree. It is a very good concept and has a great trigger, ergonomics, looks, it was just a poor execution. Luckily I only had $205 in it after the rebate and got $225 trade value.

 

[Zendude]

The mags could use some design tweaks. I had some gun oil on my mag and the rounds would try to jump out just when trying to load it. So I could see how it could jam like the way the OP described it.
After wiping out the lube in my mags the rounds don't try to slip out and they cycle without any issues. But, if the mag is designed correctly this should not be an issue in the first place.

 

[beeenbag]

I had really thought it was headed in the right direction, then it just progressively got worse, even when it would cycle, sometimes you could feel the lag in the action, like it was almost about to jam, then the bullet nose slipped on up the feed ramp. In all fairness, 90% of the failures were cured by bumping the rear of the slide to push it on into battery. I almost kept it just to target shoot with and to have something different but then logic kicked in and I realized I have several full size guns to target shoot with that feed reliably. Plus it irks me to have an unreliable gun in the safe.

 

[Zendude]

I had really thought it was headed in the right direction, then it just progressively got worse, even when it would cycle, sometimes you could feel the lag in the action, like it was almost about to jam, then the bullet nose slipped on up the feed ramp. In all fairness, 90% of the failures were cured by bumping the rear of the slide to push it on into battery. I almost kept it just to target shoot with and to have something different but then logic kicked in and I realized I have several full size guns to target shoot with that feed reliably. Plus it irks me to have an unreliable gun in the safe.

Sounds like the rounds were trying to nose dive but just caught enough of the feed ramp to avoid a jam.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I still don’t understand how Remington of today can’t figure out how to re-make one of their own guns 100 years later with modern technology and materials even after multiple attempts.

Or for that matter who they thought they were fooling when they released it the first time. Even Taurus wouldn’t have done that.

I guess I feel jaded because I really wanted one and have been waiting about 3 years for big green to figure it out .

C’est la vie

 

[pauli]

I still don’t understand how Remington of today can’t figure out how to re-make one of their own guns 100 years later with modern technology and materials even after multiple attempts.

It's based on a Pedersen design which barely worked to start with. Pair that with a manufacturer that doesn't believe that human QA is a value-adding part of the manufacturing process, and no amount of CNC can produce a reliable firearm.

 

[jr_watkins]

Another R51 thread that describes the same problem...bullet nose dive jamming the gun. The mags are the problem because the spring is too strong....way too strong. Had to cut between 3 and 5 coils from all four of my mags to get them to work. This is over an inch removed from the spring!! If experiencing the nose dive problem, you can see it happening in the magazine before you ever insert it in the gun, try cutting the mag spring coils off one by one until you have good feeding. Why Remington doesn't correct this is beyond my comprehension. Cool gun though.

 

[beeenbag]

I guess I feel jaded because I really wanted one and have been waiting about 3 years for big green to figure it out .

C’est la vie

That's where I had been since it's introduction and was bummed when the first run was a flop, then decided I'd give the second try the benefit of the doubt, probably unwise but driven by pure hope and love of the design. Too bad someone else doesn't make it and do it right. Could be a game changer if someone else was to pull of a copy successfully..(cough, cough, ruger..cough)

Another R51 thread that describes the same problem...bullet nose dive jamming the gun. The mags are the problem because the spring is too strong....way too strong. Had to cut between 3 and 5 coils from all four of my mags to get them to work. This is over an inch removed from the spring!! If experiencing the nose dive problem, you can see it happening in the magazine before you ever insert it in the gun, try cutting the mag spring coils off one by one until you have good feeding. Why Remington doesn't correct this is beyond my comprehension. Cool gun though.

I'd agree that the mag springs are too strong, hence my very first observation and hoping that leaving the mags full, even rotating full mags inserted into the gun for more compression, would resolve the issue. I just can't trust a gun that I have to cut spring coils off of to defend me and mine. Confidence in your carry gun is worth a lot. It's just not there with the R51.

 

[beeenbag]

Also to note, I spent more money (ammo) trying to make this gun break in and work than I've ever spent on any other gun, especially a carry gun.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Any time a good company is bought by a Private Equity firm you can be sure quality will nosedive. They only care about the bottom line and soon drive the company into bankruptcy and sell off its assets. I avoid those like the plague.

 

[RecoilRob]

This case does sound like the mags were the problem, and the R51 gets more of a bad reputation from it when the actual pistol might have been totally fine. Have seen guns where ONE spring was just too long or heavy or weak and that's all it takes to cause malfunctions. Several times a hammer spring was so long it actually went into bind while the slide was trying to make it all the way back during recoil...and this stopped them from working. Simple clip of a coil (or reduction of the spring seat) and they worked just fine. Granted you shouldn't need to do such things and the manufacturer really should be checking springs before they install them, but on such a cheap pistol as the R51 this would no doubt drive up the price point and it looks like Remington would have been better served checking them a bit closer and charging a bit more money.

If you buy 1000 springs then carefully test them you'll most likely find a nice bell-curve of tensions....even though they're all supposed to be the same. And this is assuming that all meet specs...which have to contain some +/- allowance though this one sounds like the mag springs are way out of spec.

 

[Pat Riot]

My R51 had the same issues. I contacted Remington. They told me they know it's a magazine issue. They said cut a coil or two off the mag spring BUT we are sending 2 new updated magazines. I cut 1.5 coils off. Still jammed. Cut another coil, went too far. Gun works great but Last round stovepiped every time on but mags. Not enough push.
The 2 new mags came and it shoots perfectly BUT you cannot rack the slide on a full mag. It sticks. It's a quirk I can live with. This gun has been reliable with everything I have fired from it so far but it loves Remington Ultimate Defense ammo best - go figure. I have not tried any 147 grain ammo. Just 115 grain in several different brands. UMC fmj, Winchester white box, Hornady Critical Defense, Hornady American Gunner, PMC and Blazer Brass. Also, gun is very accurate with Blazer Brass.
I am waiting for the new mag springs to become available as spare parts and I will buy 2 and have 4 magazines.

IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE R51 CALL REMINGTON. They know they screwed up and they are trying to make good.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

And the R51 saga continues...

I'm grateful for you guys giving us all these updates. I think the R51 is just about the coolest idea ever, but I'm not going to drop $300 for a gun that's just going to break or jam.

 

[Zendude]

I have two mags that I got fairly recently. So, far they have fed without a single problem. I can’t tell if they are different from the older mags but maybe something has been improved.

 

[Pat Riot]

I know that the first time I talked to a man in the Remington repair center he seemed very knowledgeable about the problem. When I told him what problems I was having and I told him it was really hard to load the magazine to capacity he said, "That was going to be my next question...you got 2 mags from the old batch. I am going to send you two brand new magazines that should work just fine. In the meantime you can try removing a coil or two from the existing magazine springs and they should work better. Just don't remove too much or it won't feed properly". Well, I removed too much. They work great until the last round then it stovepipes the round regardless of how many rounds you feed 2 or 7.
If I could get into my garage easily to find the baggie with the spring pieces I removed I could tell you exactly how far not go to get the best results from the mags with the incorrect springs. I am using a knee scooter and my leg is in a cast from foot surgery. I will try later.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Update, R51 has been traded in

Yep, that seems to be the pattern. All of us want to give it a chance because it's cool, but around 500-700 rounds we give up on it "working in".

 

[groundhog34]

Any time a good company is bought by a Private Equity firm you can be sure quality will nosedive. They only care about the bottom line and soon drive the company into bankruptcy and sell off its assets. I avoid those like the plague.

Actually that's not what most private equity firms do. They prefer to reduce cost and quality as much as they can while still maintaining revenue. Then they load the company with debt, withdraw as much equity as possible then cash out by taking the company public again. Cerberus Group which owns Remington is one of the best or worst depending on your point of view. George Soros is reportedly a large investor in Cerberus Group. Their investment in Remington has not worked out as they hoped as there are no buyers and the IPO market for firearms company is weak at best. IMO Remington and Cerberus deserve each other.

 

[Pat Riot]

I found my little bag with the coil spring pieces that I removed from the original magazines. I removed 2 coils and the magazine worked fine but I could not cycle the slide with a full magazine inserted and the slide forward so I removed another half coil. That would allow me to work the slide with full mag and the breech closed but the final round would stovepipe.

 

[beeenbag]

I found my little bag with the coil spring pieces that I removed from the original magazines. I removed 2 coils and the magazine worked fine but I could not cycle the slide with a full magazine inserted and the slide forward so I removed another half coil. That would allow me to work the slide with full mag and the breech closed but the final round would stovepipe.

Thank you for enduring getting to the garage in your time of recovery. To a speedy recovery

 

[The_Guy]

I got mine after thanksgiving when Remington was running the $100 off. The only issue I’ve had with it is racking the slide on a full mag the first found nose dives. If I lock the slide back, insert the mag then release it the first round and additional rounds load fine. I haven’t put a lot of rounds through it so far but it seems ok. I bought it more out of curiosity than wanting to use it as a carry piece. I think Remington may cut this one from their lineup. Hopefully they will offer the RM380 as a 9mm.

 

[Pat Riot]

Hopefully they will offer the RM380 as a 9mm.

Ooh...that might be a handful. Maybe with a longer grip. I love my RM380.

 

[kemikos]

Ooh...that might be a handful. Maybe with a longer grip. I love my RM380.

It was. Remington bought the design from Rohrbaugh, who sold it (chambered in 9mm) as the R9.

Saying it was unpleasant to shoot was putting it mildly, and it needed a new recoil spring every 200 rounds. It was the only gun I've ever seen with a note in the manual warning the owner NOT to practice with it, in order to minimize wear...