New Saiga IZ132 rifles

[RichardInFlorida]

I'm not that familiar with the Saiga conversions, but it is my understanding that until now to use AK magazines in a Saiga rifle, there was a fair amount of work involved. Is this accurate?

If so, these new rifles seem to change things a bit. It looks like the basic IZ132 will now have AK-style furniture and take standard 30 rd mags. The other models don't really grab my interest, but the basic one does.

Compared to the variety of AKs that come into the country, isn't the Saiga quality generally considered as good, or better than many of the others?

Richard

 

[USAF_Vet]

Its a relatively minor amount of work. I don't think the guns linked in the article are being imported in that configuration.

 

[M1key]

Saigas are new Russian made and are very good quality. They are not imported in that configuration and must converted here with US made parts. The mod for the AK mag is pretty simple to do. Add a bullet guide (feed ramp) and open the mag latch a bit.

M

 

[wally]

The mod for the AK mag is pretty simple to do. Add a bullet guide (feed ramp) and open the mag latch a bit.

Yes but moving the trigger forward is the most beneficial part of the conversion.

 

[Fishbed77]

Yes but moving the trigger forward is the most beneficial part of the conversion.

And likely necessary to ensure 922(r) compliance.

 

[RichardInFlorida]

Saigas are new Russian made and are very good quality. They are not imported in that configuration and must converted here with US made parts. The mod for the AK mag is pretty simple to do. Add a bullet guide (feed ramp) and open the mag latch a bit.

M

So, do you think the US importer is taking Kalashnikov receivers that accept standard AK mags, and then just building it out with US parts to meet 922(r) requirements? Or is there something else that can/is being done to import legally? Since Kalashnikov is putting their name on things, I would guess it is a higher quality operation than a random importer taking AK blanks and building rifles.

Richard

 

[M1key]

No, factory Saigas will not accept standard AK mags. Someone in this country is converting them to look like an original AK and accept standard AK mags using U.S. parts to meet 922r.

M

 

[RichardInFlorida]

No, factory Saigas will not accept standard AK mags. Someone in this country is converting them to look like an original AK and accept standard AK mags using U.S. parts to meet 922r.

M

I guess I am a little confused.

If I understand the information from the company, these Saiga rifles manufactured by Concern Kalashnikov. They are imported by RWC Group LLC, the exclusive importer of Kalashnikov products into the US and sold as factory rifles, not converted. That is why I was thinking these rifle upgrades are kind of a big deal - original Saiga rifles that take standard AK magazines.

I guess my question would be is Concern Kalashnikov building them in Russia with US parts and then importing them (is that legal per 922(r)) or is RWC swapping parts once the rifles hit US soil?

Richard

 

[Fishbed77]

So, do you think the US importer is taking Kalashnikov receivers that accept standard AK mags, and then just building it out with US parts to meet 922(r) requirements?

That is exactly what they are doing, except it sounds like they are starting with complete IZ-132 rifles, rather than just receivers (which means they are probably installing a bullet guide and modifying the mag catch of the IZ-132).

Not really any different than what Arsenal, Fime, Atlantic, Century and a number of AK builders have been doing off and on for years.

 

[dcarch]

This is, in my humble opinion, an excellent move for us as customers. Anything that brings more high quality AKs into this country, or provides the customer with more good options is a win in my book. Excited to see where and how this pans out.

 

[yzguy87]

Earlier today I asked if they were being converted over here or there and he said they were being converted over there. Idk how this is possible because I would think this would be the same as importing a rifle with those features.
He included a "press release" since his original post.

 

[Fishbed77]

Earlier today I asked if they were being converted over here or there and he said they were being converted over there.

That may be the case for rifles to be sold in countries other than the United States.

Selling such rifles in the U.S. is not legal under current federal law.

 

[Girodin]

There are two issues:

1) making the rifle work with standard mags. This is actually very little work that honestly anyone should be able to do. It involves filing off a small amount of metal from the mag catch, drilling and taping a hole for a bullet guide and then screwing the bullet guide into place with some loctite. A very easy DIY job.

2) Having the gun be legal with mags installed. The long and short of it is that when you put a mag holding more than ten rounds in that saiga, the gun can not have more than 10 countable foreign made parts. A stock saiga rifle has 14 thus you need to remove (and generally replace) 4 parts. There are lots of ways to get there. A pistol grip conversion gets you there if you use a US made FCG (parts), a US made stock, and a US made pistol grip. This is another simple and very worth while DIY project.

The linked to guns are interesting in that at least the lower two would appear to rely on US made magazines for their parts count. I think that is stupid to do. They have all kinds of CAA parts on them. I am not an "ak traditionalist" by any means. However, there is a difference between making functional additions and adding tacticool parts. Personally I'm not a huge fan of the CAA parts on those guns. There are PGs I prefer, stocks I prefer, and handguards I prefer to those CAA pieces. Also I would really want to know whether the brake on the top two guns is an AK 74 style brake, which is nothing more than a lookalike muzzle weight that increases flash and blast, or a real deal 74 brake. I would not be shocked to learn it was the first. If so, why? I'd much rather have a $9 A2 bird cage than the lookalike fake 74 style brakes. And if I'm not going for a traditional look there are IMHO better muzzle devices than the 74 brake anyways.

I don't know the price of those linked to guns, nor what a base saiga is selling for so it is hard to compare the relative value of the linked guns versus a user assembled rifle that would to my mind be a superior weapon.

 

[wally]

The linked to guns are interesting in that at least the lower two would appear to rely on US made magazines for their parts count. I think that is stupid to do.

Perhaps, but you could replace the 3 US parts in the magazine with a Tapco trigger set for about $30 and a few minutes work removing and replacing pins.

 

[PabloJ]

Saigas are new Russian made and are very good quality. They are not imported in that configuration and must converted here with US made parts. The mod for the AK mag is pretty simple to do. Add a bullet guide (feed ramp) and open the mag latch a bit.

M

These are just tools. I have looked at different AK, AKM rifles like: Arsenal, Saiga, Romanian, Polish, Yugoslavian, Egyptian....and have yet to see something I would describe as quality. I finally picked up Chinese AKM made close to 25 years ago and paid $450 which is about what these are worth. Personally I think all mass produced AK rifles are overpriced.

 

[boricua9mm]

These are just tools. I have looked at different AK, AKM rifles like: Arsenal, Saiga, Romanian, Polish, Yugoslavian, Egyptian....and have yet to see something I would describe as quality.

If you cannot see a difference in quality between the very crude Egyptian and Romanian rifles versus the others you listed, you might need a visit to the optometrist! In the current market the Yugo rifles are much better made than the Romanian ones that have been coming into the country over the past 10 years.

There are huge differences in the machining of the parts and the overall build quality. Now, those things may not significant enough to effect the functioning of the rifle, but they are prevalent nonetheless. That said, I can understand being critical of the very idea of a "Nice AK" so at the end of the day you have to ask yourself whether or not you mind owning a really rough example or not.

 

[PabloJ]

I can see that Arsenal is much better than Romanian one with laminate stock. Last 7,62x39 with cage type six slot break plastic US-made stock material and pinless receiver was $1400. Too much money. Quite honestly I don't see much difference between that and Yugoslavian M70 that cost hundreds less. The same goes for Russian Saigas that go for over $1000. I did see rather nice AK it was Molot ("Sledgehammer Factory" justifiably considered as premium Russian sporting gun manufacturer) sporter with nice wooden stock and two 10 cartridge magazines. It was Arsenal import and second hand in excellent condition it cost only $500. Too bad it wasn't 7,62x39 or x51 or I would have bought it. It had lovely hog back stock with european style cheek rest and was put together to very high standard. Those new sell for less than $1000 so frankly I don't see why some AKs with US made bin parts cost well over $1000.

 

[fanchisimo]

If they'd just change them to the IZ-332 versions I would be ecstatic since besides the front site post, I feel the rest of the conversion is easy. Grinding out those dimples on the Saiga front sight post intimidates me cause I think I might drill into the barrel. Lol.