New to building 700 platform actions and need some advise

[LRkid92]

so my plan was to build a little 700 la in 7mm rem mag for elk and other med/large size game. I have read a manual on how to correct timing on the action And have considered maybe upgrading the bolt to a 1 peice but my older gun smithing friend told me to get a heavy duty recoil lug and pin it - which I had thought about and then see how the tread engage the barrel and possibly ream that action and buy new barrel and the cut new thread. The gun shoots factory ammo at 1.5-1moa which I feel pretty sure after I put it in a Boyd’s stock and cut the barrel back one tread and re ream it to take up some free bore I should be will into 1moa or better. I feel like my friend maybe suggesting a little to much work for this rifle to do.

Opinion? It my first push feed action, I’ve learned almost everything on claw actions.

 

[troy fairweather]

sounds fine the way it is

 

[Varminterror]

I have spent a lot of money paying Smith’s to blueprint Rem 700 actions, as well as buying blueprinted Rem 700 actions. Honestly, for all of the trouble, I doubt I will ever waste money blueprinting another one, ever again. By the time a guy spends all of the sunk cost to improve a factory 700 action, they could have bought a custom action with better resale value retention, and tighter tolerances.

There really isn’t any reason a factory Remington shouldn’t be shooting 1moa already, and I certainly would NOT waste a dime doing any precision enhancements to a rifle which was only shooting 1.5moa.

 

[Yarddog]

I have a 700 06 shoots MOA all day . might get a few fliers , My fault .. I say your good to go as is ; )
Y/D

 

[LRkid92]

I have spent a lot of money paying Smith’s to blueprint Rem 700 actions, as well as buying blueprinted Rem 700 actions. Honestly, for all of the trouble, I doubt I will ever waste money blueprinting another one, ever again. By the time a guy spends all of the sunk cost to improve a factory 700 action, they could have bought a custom action with better resale value retention, and tighter tolerances.

There really isn’t any reason a factory Remington shouldn’t be shooting 1moa already, and I certainly would NOT waste a dime doing any precision enhancements to a rifle which was only shooting 1.5moa.

Good thing I’m doing the work myself lol I figured I will be about moa when I’m done bedding it in a wooden stock, I just can not see the need to make the treads lock up super tight for this app, the longest shots I should have are about 300-400 yrds at max on whitetai deer that weight 150-250 lbs.

I have a 700 06 shoots MOA all day . might get a few fliers , My fault .. I say your good to go as is ; )
Y/D

Same deal, I feel like the stock was my biggest issue on this gun. It the lr version and it flexible in my hands.

 

[Varminterror]

If you’re capable of doing the machine work, then I’d expect you’re able to see the waste of time in front of you to fit a new bolt.

If I found a Rem 700 starting at 1.5moa, I’d sell it fast and start over.

 

[LRkid92]

sounds fine the way it is

Sorry but moa helps me stay ethical on longer shots. I’m good for about 1/2 moa with a tree to rest on or rifle sticks.

 

[Varminterror]

Sorry but moa helps me stay ethical on longer shots. I’m good for about 1/2 moa with a tree to rest on or rifle sticks.

Wow, that’s incredible shooting! Would you happen to have a video shooting 1/2moa from a tree? That would certainly be a sight to see!

 

[z7]

so my plan was to build a little 700 la in 7mm rem mag for elk and other med/large size game. I have read a manual on how to correct timing on the action And have considered maybe upgrading the bolt to a 1 peice but my older gun smithing friend told me to get a heavy duty recoil lug and pin it - which I had thought about and then see how the tread engage the barrel and possibly ream that action and buy new barrel and the cut new thread. The gun shoots factory ammo at 1.5-1moa which I feel pretty sure after I put it in a Boyd’s stock and cut the barrel back one tread and re ream it to take up some free bore I should be will into 1moa or better. I feel like my friend maybe suggesting a little to much work for this rifle to do.

Opinion? It my first push feed action, I’ve learned almost everything on claw actions.

I would take your time and make small changes first like change the stock and bed it then see how it shoots, since you already have the gun.

then play around with some bullets/seating depths if you reload and see how much freebore you have. for 300yd shots you probably don't need a super low drag bullet, so you have some options to play with to see if you can get a particular bullet to shoot better.

a 7mm mag will have less barrel life than say a 30-06, so after tinkering, bedding, working on some bullets etc you will have 500rds through the barrel (hopefully) and be about 1/3rd of the way through the barrel life.

i'd recommend a barrel replacement vs setting the barrel back. if you want to chamber it yourself you can get a prefit short chambered barrel, or you can go with a remage system from northwest shooters supply and use a barrel nut. I shot with a guy back in December and he was using a custom action (bighorn TL3) with a criterion (NSS savage prefit) in 6mm creedmore and he was hitting 1moa steel at 600yds.

a stainless steel remage barrel is about $300-$350 depending on length
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/barrels/criterion-remington-remage/

from what little I know about the subject, most factory actions are or should be capable of 1moa accuracy, the weak points are the stock, barrel and shooter interface. the barrel could have a few problems: the chamber or crown could be cut poorly, the rifling could be imperfect, the freebore could be excessive or the barrel itself could have stress in the steel and it could flex as it heats up.

the shooter interface is one that may get overlooked, does the stock fit you? can you get behind the rifle in a repeatable manner? is the trigger crisp and repeatable? can you pull the trigger in a consistent manner that does not disturb the sights? are you flinching? (shoot with a buddy, walk away from the shooting area, have a friend load the gun and close the bolt and you take single shots, have your friend randomly NOT load the gun, but where you are unaware. you will quickly identify event he slightest flinch. the same could be done alone with dummy rounds, load them the same way and mix them in with live ammo so you are blind to the process)

you claim you are a 1/2 moa shooter off of a tree, while I agree with @Varminterror i'd love to see you demonstrate that, I will also assume you are not a limiting factor in the rifle's accuracy. off my belly I am a 1.5 to 2 moa shooter with my $4,000 custom rifle with all the bells and whistles, on my belly i am a consistent 5/8 moa shooter and I am the limiting factor

 

[WelshShooter]

I agree with varminterror. I have a bluuprinted, custom Remington 700 chambered in 6.5x47 Lapua which is scarily accurate when I'm having a good day, but if I could go back in time and change one thing it would be to throw that Remington 700 action in the bin and choose a custom action such as a Surgeon or Stiller.

 

[LRkid92]

I would take your time and make small changes first like change the stock and bed it then see how it shoots, since you already have the gun.

then play around with some bullets/seating depths if you reload and see how much freebore you have. for 300yd shots you probably don't need a super low drag bullet, so you have some options to play with to see if you can get a particular bullet to shoot better.

a 7mm mag will have less barrel life than say a 30-06, so after tinkering, bedding, working on some bullets etc you will have 500rds through the barrel (hopefully) and be about 1/3rd of the way through the barrel life.

i'd recommend a barrel replacement vs setting the barrel back. if you want to chamber it yourself you can get a prefit short chambered barrel, or you can go with a remage system from northwest shooters supply and use a barrel nut. I shot with a guy back in December and he was using a custom action (bighorn TL3) with a criterion (NSS savage prefit) in 6mm creedmore and he was hitting 1moa steel at 600yds.

a stainless steel remage barrel is about $300-$350 depending on length
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/barrels/criterion-remington-remage/

from what little I know about the subject, most factory actions are or should be capable of 1moa accuracy, the weak points are the stock, barrel and shooter interface. the barrel could have a few problems: the chamber or crown could be cut poorly, the rifling could be imperfect, the freebore could be excessive or the barrel itself could have stress in the steel and it could flex as it heats up.

the shooter interface is one that may get overlooked, does the stock fit you? can you get behind the rifle in a repeatable manner? is the trigger crisp and repeatable? can you pull the trigger in a consistent manner that does not disturb the sights? are you flinching? (shoot with a buddy, walk away from the shooting area, have a friend load the gun and close the bolt and you take single shots, have your friend randomly NOT load the gun, but where you are unaware. you will quickly identify event he slightest flinch. the same could be done alone with dummy rounds, load them the same way and mix them in with live ammo so you are blind to the process)

you claim you are a 1/2 moa shooter off of a tree, while I agree with @Varminterror i'd love to see you demonstrate that, I will also assume you are not a limiting factor in the rifle's accuracy. off my belly I am a 1.5 to 2 moa shooter with my $4,000 custom rifle with all the bells and whistles, on my belly i am a consistent 5/8 moa shooter and I am the limiting factor

I had a ton of off hand shooting at camp perry, I only have about 2500 dollars(mostly due to me doing almost all the work) in my current prc style rifle with solid copper 180 I can get 1/3moa at 100 from prone which this is my best short range load and at 1650 with my 225eldm load up-(not counting my two misses out of a 10 shot string my group)- was about 12in wide. I went ahead and bought the Boyd’s stock that fit me in winter gear and should work just fine with a limb saver for the summer, I’m just waiting a different mount and rings to come in and then I will mount my minox 3-15x42(one of my favorite hunting scopes due to size and weight). I adjusted the trigger also since it was set at 6.5lbs, I got it down to 2.25 or so and a super clean break. I did the rubber mallet test to make sure it won’t go bang unless my finger is on the trigger. If I do square the action up I will have cut another tread on the barrel so I can get the head space correct anyhow. But I don’t want to bang 12 hours of setup and 4 of machining just for a hunting rifle I just need a consistent 1 moa from and only going to get carried with load up for southern pig hunts l, local deer, Utah elk and Canadian deer and elk if I can afford to do it ever again.

I am working on a reloading video and shooting video for a group I am apart of for the 300 win I built with the same smith that’s kind of trying to get me to go crazy with this hunting rifle that’s just replacing my 30-06 ai due to the fact of when I last got to go to Canada my hand load did not make it with me and I had to shoot factory hunting ammo which really harm that rifle in performance and made me slight nervous about shooting Much past 150 yard and keeping the shot lethal and humane due to 2.5 moa groups due to the rifle being throated long for heavier 200 grain LR and having to some 17x weight factory ammo as replacement. I’m just trying to keep a light 1moa 3 shot gun that I can pop any ammo in and feel safe in the correct conditions to take that extra long shot at 350-500 yrds. Which max range for my 30-06 AI was about 400 yrds on elks sized game.
That 6 cm is actually a nice round, I enjoy the cm line up due to the fact it getting more people into LR shooting, but there is a dark side to the CM line and I will rant about it below. I’ve seen more people at our local long range shooting range then ever before. I was a 6mm br (dasher improved) shooter for a short time and that rd is next level, we get .125 groups, its insane.


(btw I’m a true believer in that as respectful and responsible hunter 550 yrd is the longest we should really take even with a “Super magnum“ (RUM-lapua and BMG as common examples) due to the fact it take a slight mistake to cause that animal harm and suffering unjustly, I mean just depending on your flight time and location @ 500 yard The change of POI by .20 moa for spins drift and .15moa if you shoot east to west vice versa for the spin of the earth and if a shooters makes a tiny mistakes in the field attempting those shots can lead to just a injured animal suffering and a long chase. My guide and I email here and their has been complaining of the amount of people packing 6.5 Creedmoor wanting to take 600+ shot on deer- yeah you could probably hit it but the energy is lacking: Rant done)

 

[LRkid92]

Wow, that’s incredible shooting! Would you happen to have a video shooting 1/2moa from a tree? That would certainly be a sight to see!

I did air rifle shooting at 6 until I stepped to 50 yrd off hand 22 and then step into the cmp Jr match at 13. At 18 I realized I wasn’t one of the superhuman that somehow make their rifles shoot better then they would in a vices lol. I saw one time in practice a gentleman nail a 1/4moa group at 600yrds when we just got the electric sysem.

I agree with everyone on the fact if I wanted more then 1 moa I would have jumped on a 1300 dollar custom actions ready to go. But again I’m doing 90 % of the work so it just giving up my time to true it up and tune a few things. I’m just going to have the cost of cutting tool at worst and to have the action rebuled or Cerakoted.

 

[Varminterror]

With that much long range rifle and reloading experience, especially in building precision rifles on custom Boyd’s stocks, I’m really surprised you are having trouble getting factory rifles to shoot smaller than 1moa for 3 shot groups. Which rifles have you shot which you couldn’t coax to deliver 1moa 3 shot groups?

 

[Varminterror]

I am working on a reloading video and shooting video for a group I am apart of for the 300 win I built

I’ll look forward to watching these videos if you’d be so kind to share! I really hope you take the time to include some field and offhand shooting in the video and don’t lock it all down to the bench, but I can imagine the topic might dictate otherwise.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The gun shoots factory ammo at 1.5-1moa which I feel pretty sure after I put it in a Boyd’s stock and cut the barrel back one tread and re ream it to take up some free bore I should be will into 1moa or better. .

Why are you willing to take the time and spend the money to do a whole bunch of stock, barrel & action work, but not to develop a load the rifle likes? There aren't too many guns out there which won't see groups tighten up considerably with tailored handloads. For a hunting rifle, it makes a lot more sense to find a bullet it likes and play with loads & freebore on neck sized cases fired in it's chamber than to do all the things you propose. If the rifle won't put down sub-MOA groups with any developed handload, it's probably a junk barrel.

 

[LRkid92]

Why are you willing to take the time and spend the money to do a whole bunch of stock, barrel & action work, but not to develop a load the rifle likes? There aren't too many guns out there which won't see groups tighten up considerably with tailored handloads. For a hunting rifle, it makes a lot more sense to find a bullet it likes and play with loads & freebore on neck sized cases fired in it's chamber than to do all the things you propose. If the rifle won't put down sub-MOA groups with any developed handload, it's probably a junk barrel.

I haven’t done any hand loading as of yet for this particular rifle , I just want to make sure if I run into another issues of going out of the states and not having my hand load make it across the boarder that I can trust the rifle 100%, I did get 1.5-1moa groups with federal and hornady ammo, horandy shot the best before the new stock and I should be put testing the rifle this Sunday with the new stock and adjusted trigger. With how crappy the plastic stock looks I do think this rifle will end up shooting much better, I could flex the hand guard into the barrel. I really believe the old Gun Smith buddy may have been wanting to unload a barrel he had because suddenly he has a barrel he wants to sell me. Lol

 

[LRkid92]

With that much long range rifle and reloading experience, especially in building precision rifles on custom Boyd’s stocks, I’m really surprised you are having trouble getting factory rifles to shoot smaller than 1moa for 3 shot groups. Which rifles have you shot which you couldn’t coax to deliver 1moa 3 shot groups?

Only used rifles that where ran hard and put away wet and one new Ruger m77 that the throat was messed up on.

 

[Varminterror]

Only used rifles that where ran hard and put away wet and one new Ruger m77 that the throat was messed up on.

And now this 300wm Rem 700 which will only group 1-1.5moa too, right? That is, until you ream the action, buy a heavy duty recoil lug and one piece bolt, replace the ugly plastic stock with a Boyd’s stock, and set the barrel back one thread, right?

What country are you planning to take this rifle to? What will you be hunting? Sounds very exciting.

 

[Seamaster31]

This is a very interesting thread. I have built a few rifles based on 700 actions but I am always open to learn something new that I have not thought of before. Pulling apart a factory rifle and changing some components and dimensions without a new barrel or trigger is new thinking for me. This should be a very interesting build and I hope the OP posts updates on progress and of course, results.

 

[MachIVshooter]

This is a very interesting thread. I have built a few rifles based on 700 actions but I am always open to learn something new that I have not thought of before. Pulling apart a factory rifle and changing some components and dimensions without a new barrel or trigger is new thinking for me. This should be a very interesting build and I hope the OP posts updates on progress and of course, results.

Setting back barrels to tighten up headspace isn't anything new, and it's one approach, but if the headspace checks OK with a no go gauge, it makes a whole lot more sense to fireform brass and neck size your handloads than to tighten up a chamber to the point where it may not like some factory ammo. For most cartridges, the difference between minimum and maximum headspace is only .003"-.005".

 

[Varminterror]

I’m still trying to decide what we’re really dealing with here - I know what it isn’t, just not quite decided what it is yet.

 

[Seamaster31]

Setting back barrels to tighten up headspace isn't anything new, and it's one approach, but if the headspace checks OK with a no go gauge, it makes a whole lot more sense to fireform brass and neck size your handloads than to tighten up a chamber to the point where it may not like some factory ammo. For most cartridges, the difference between minimum and maximum headspace is only .003"-.005".

Setting a barrel back in the case of excessive headspace is a solution to a problem but this does not sound like that is the issue at hand. My limited understanding of the issue here is the OP is starting with a factory rifle (with no apparent problems) that he is considering pulling apart to try to make it into a possibly a slightly improved version. Of course the use of a bit thicker recoil lug might just require setback.

Putting time and money into a rifle while using an original factory barrel and trigger to attempt to make it shoot 1/2 MOA with factory ammunition in this manner is new to me.

 

[Picher]

Although I've had Rem 700s and other makes of rifles that didn't shoot 1 MOA when I acquired them, I've never replaced barrels with the same caliber in an attempt to increase accuracy. However, I've been successful in bedding and stock replacement to get rifles that shot greater than 1 MOA to achieve sub 1/2 MOA in many cases, using handloads tailored for the rifles.

The things that have improved accuracy have been the following: Free-floating the barrels, bedding actions and pillar-bedding, adjusting triggers to maximum of 3 lbs and minimum of 1.5 lbs. Few rifle/factory ammo combinations, regardless of make/model have shot better than 1 MOA with factory ammo. The one exception has been a 7mm-08 Remington, Model 7 that had a plastic, cracked stock from a buddy's over-tightening the front stock screw. I repaired it by pillar-bedding, including placing a section of threaded bolt in a slot across the crack printed. After bedding it shot a 3-shot, 1/4" clover-leaf group when sighting-in with Rem factory Core Loct ammo. My buddy didn't know of the crack and sold it to my neighbor. Prior to delivery, I found the crack and both bedded and shortened the stock to fit her. (However, I didn't have the opportunity to tailor handloads for that rifle; however, it's very doubtful that I could have improved on the factory ammo results).

Handloading has often further decreased groups to as small as .25 MOA (and always under MOA) with Remington bolt-action centerfire rifles chambered for .223 Rem, .22-250, .243 Win, 6mm Rem, .270 Win, .7mm-08, and 30-06, using handloaded ammo tailored for each rifle.

It's easy to fall into a mindset that a barrel is bad, but few Remington bolt actions have ever shot badly with proper ammo, bedding improvements and from a good rest...at least for me, in my 60 years of shooting/bedding centerfire rifles...sometimes for customers, but mostly for friends and myself.
JP

 

[Nature Boy]

Mag length ammo for hunting rifles can really limit your ability to tune for accuracy because you’re restricted on how much you can adjust seating dept

 

[MistWolf]

What's going on here is very simple- LRkid92 wants his 7mm Remington Magnum to consistently shoot 1 MOA or less with factory ammo. Why? Because during one trip to Canada, he forgot the handloaded ammo for his 30-06 Ackley Improved and had to resort to using factory 30-06 Springfield ammunition. his resulted in degraded precision.

His gunsmith has suggested improvements that LRkid92 has questions as to whether or not they are needed to achieve his goal of a three shot group of 1 MOA or less with factory ammo. He has set this goal to be confident in making clean, humane kills at ranges he's comfortable taking a shot at large game at.

LRkid92 has experience working on Mauser control round type actions, but not Remington actions. He will be doing the work himself and wants to know if he should go to such extremes or of there are simpler improvements he should try first. He has many years of experience shooting and knows his limitations.

LRkid92, I don't think you need to go to such extremes as your gunsmith friend proscribes to get your Remington 700 to shoot 1 MOA three shot groups at hunting ranges with factory ammo.

Just want to add- As you will not be tailoring your ammo to your barrel, you may have to take steps to tailor your barrel to the ammo.