P Flados
Member
FYI, the current web data has next to no data for Green Dot (very little data for the old flake powders in general). The link I provided has Green Dot loads for most handgun cartridges.
Random 8
Member
I don't understand what favor Alliant thinks they are doing by hiding data. IF you click on a specific powder and "see all recipes," there is more, but many of the old loads are still MIA. I know they exist, it should cost nothing to show them digitally, yet they are still MIA. Thanks for the link. I've added it to my personal library, since my mid 90's pamphlet was destroyed by a mouse in storage, along with multiple important documents
. I think I need to fire the cat!
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,270
Which brings up an interesting question: if a source rescinds their data - whether by declaration or deprecation - can it still be considered valid? On the one hand we have Alliant and the Blue Dot in .41Mag declaration proscribing all previous data. On the other we have data which was once published but is no more. Hmmm…. If the manufacturers data online were a person’s only source, they would be missing a great deal - but is what they’re missing still valid or did it go away for good reasons?
Last edited:
P Flados
Member
I try to be very careful with "old data".
I prefer to use data with "all of the details" and results shown with velocity and with pressure in psi. I consider data with pressure shown in cup to be only a smidge better than data with no pressure info (which I normally consider to be "interesting" but not assured of being safe).
I consider the 2005 Alliant data to be "good" in that it does show results with the pressure in psi for most of the loads presented. I have a copy of Alliant data back to 2000 with pressure results in psi. My 1987 Hercules data is all in cup. Data after 2005 seems to be pushing the "newer" pistol powders that Alliant developed and they completely quit showing the results for pressure.
However, where the 2005 guide only identifies the bullet used by a general description (instead of a specific bullet), it less than perfect. If the load in question uses a bullet with a "standard" profile (therefore a consistent length), it is probably as good as any data out there. If the load has more uncertainty in the bullet length, then there is less certainty that the end user can duplicate the published results. The bullet length issue is more significant with "small volume" cartridges such as 380, 9mm, 40 S&W or loads that otherwise come close to filling the case.
I prefer to use data with "all of the details" and results shown with velocity and with pressure in psi. I consider data with pressure shown in cup to be only a smidge better than data with no pressure info (which I normally consider to be "interesting" but not assured of being safe).
I consider the 2005 Alliant data to be "good" in that it does show results with the pressure in psi for most of the loads presented. I have a copy of Alliant data back to 2000 with pressure results in psi. My 1987 Hercules data is all in cup. Data after 2005 seems to be pushing the "newer" pistol powders that Alliant developed and they completely quit showing the results for pressure.
However, where the 2005 guide only identifies the bullet used by a general description (instead of a specific bullet), it less than perfect. If the load in question uses a bullet with a "standard" profile (therefore a consistent length), it is probably as good as any data out there. If the load has more uncertainty in the bullet length, then there is less certainty that the end user can duplicate the published results. The bullet length issue is more significant with "small volume" cartridges such as 380, 9mm, 40 S&W or loads that otherwise come close to filling the case.
Last edited:
OP
OP
N555
Member
I don't think anyone ever blew up a gun as long as they stuck to CUP load data.
It looks like Alliant doesn't currently post a y greendot load data for 45acp, or at least nothing for 230gr that I would use.
It looks like Alliant doesn't currently post a y greendot load data for 45acp, or at least nothing for 230gr that I would use.
LiveLife
Member
2004 Alliant load data has Green Dot loads for 45ACP from 155 gr to 240 gr from lead to jacketed bullets (Page 44 of pdf) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?resources/2004-alliant-load-data.18/
Enjoy.
OP
OP
N555
Member
Yes old data has plenty of greendot loads.2004 Alliant load data has Green Dot loads for 45ACP from 155 gr to 240 gr from lead to jacketed bullets (Page 44 of pdf) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?resources/2004-alliant-load-data.18/
Enjoy.
New data has few or no greendot loads.
For 45acp that is.
LiveLife
Member
There are many reloaders who would consider 2004 "new" data.
I have referenced 2004 Alliant load data for many of my 380Auto/9mm/40S&W/45ACP/45Colt loads with good results, particularly for Promo 9/40/45 loads referencing Red Dot load data.
And perhaps current Alliant guide doesn't have the older load data because it's already been published in 2004?
