new twist on the wilderness/bear gun debate...

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ok, i want opinions from people who actually do or have done this kind of thing...if u havent come face to face with something that wants to eat you, stay out of it.

my little sister is planning to get a job in the oilfeild/environmental testing feild, and one of the requirements is a firearms license, which means she will be carrying a gun for "wilderness protection". and we're not talking about backpacking in colorado; this is northern canada, weeks out in the bush: lots of grizzlies, black bears, wolves, coyotes, cougers, wolverines etc. and yes, they are out there, i worked up north and saw most of the above. the catch is she is 5' and 115lbs. tough as hell, but little shooting experience and no way she can handle a 12ga. with any effectiveness.

so, whats the best option? handguns/ar's are not allowed. i was thinking mossberg 500 20ga 18.5 barrel, full syn stock. i know it wont stop a griz but it would allow her to hit a fast moving target. less that 8 months to practice. 44 lever gun, SKS, i dont know?!? tell me what you think
 
I've only backpacked in wilderness areas so take my suggestions accordingly. I only carried handguns then.

There are reduced recoil loads for 12ga that are very easy to shoot to practice with that even my wife can handle. She's about the same size, except 1" taller and about 20lbs heavier.

Thats the extent to which I feel comfortable offering my advice to you. Good luck!
 
I'd go with a 12 gauge with solid slugs, like Waywatcher mentioned there are reduced recoil 12 gauge loads for practicing with. There is no reason she shouldn't be able to handle the recoil of a 12 gauge with enough practice (my wife and sister had it down with one range trip).

Other than that while she is practicing also have her study dangerous animals, most bears want to avoid you.
 
I learned long ago that once a predator is big enough to eat me it was no longer afraid of me ...

I'd go w/ a Marlin 336 or a 20 ga shotgun using slugs ... presumably she would only 'need' to use it if the threat was too close to retreat safely ...

Of course she needs to try both to see which fits her better ...
 
Cheers all,
I don't post here often, but I "ghost" here daily.
It isn't the caliber of weapon - it's "shot placement" that make it all work.
I fly - I've flown some of the oldest/best "bear" men in the world. They all tell me "Ya break a bear down (knees/shoulders) and then ya kill it!"
You won't stop a bear in full charge, it ain't gonna happen!!! You break it down till it can't move toward you, and then you can proceed to kill it. Usually a shot to the back of the skull.
I shoot a 45/110 Sharps - throwing 565 grains of lead down range at 1200 fps - and I STILL plan on doing it the "old way". BREAK THEM DOWN - then kill them!
Sorry, John Wayne is NOT here!!!

Gentle winds,
cr
 
On my last trip to Alaska, my guides were mostly carrying 12ga shotty pumps. First round buckshot to get their attention, followed by slugs.

The problem with the griz is their slanted head, much more low profile than black bears and hard to get other than glancing shots.
 
I was backpacking in Montana one summer at dusk (bad timing), when suddenly, 5 yards in front of me, two cubs scurried up a tree while momma charged in the bush, she suddenly stopped and all was quiet. I never got a good look at her, so I don't know if she had charged me or not. glad I got out of that one. I have confronted bears several other times, but they have always ran away.

Here is my advice:

Hike in groups
make NOISE (very important)
carry bear spray...it works, bears see with their nose.
don't hike at dawn or dusk
If attacked at night, fight back, it wants to eat you
if attacked during the day, play dead...on your stomach, cover your neck.
don't sleep with your food.

Most people use a shotgun when they choose to use a long gun. why not just give the 12 a try then decide. At 7 yards or so, a hip shot is fairly accurate if you have practice, and is more comfortable on the old shoulder. A .44 magnum is also a good choice.
 
As someone mentioned previously, at 5' 115lbs. she might be comfortable with a Marlin 336 lever, but there's been a lot of debate on these threads regarding 30-30 effectiveness on large critters. Good luck.
 
Brown bears here in California, no grizzlies - thank God. Just the same, I was deer hunting and a sow with 3 cubs came waltzing down a deer trail I was on.

We were 6' apart at the closest point, but when I caught first sight of them I made myself small and cross haired her skull with a 30-06 w/165g home loads and my plan was to drop the bolt gun after the first shot and continue with a .44 loaded with 265g cast rounds.

No shots were fired, she didn't see me, but for this encounter I felt comforted by the firearms I had at the time.

For big stuff, I'd advise a short 12ga. with slugs or a .454, .480 or something similar, and I'd practice with it till I could reliably deliver the rounds.
 
I've come across grizzlies on two separate occasions while camping in Wyoming, but I didn't really feel threatened. I was more worried the time I had only a tent wall between me and a curious bull moose and all I had was a 9mm, so I'm not sure I meet your criteria. But I couldn't resist running this by you:

Slugs in a Remington 11-87 youth model 20 ga. semi-auto, and if possible with the stock that has a pistol grip built into it and a good sling that will allow instant readiness and prevent losing the gun in a scuffle. I've never used this setup, but I like that you can use it one-handed if need be.

http://www.remington.com/products/f...clusives/model_11-87_sportsman_youth_camo.asp

Here's the pistol grip stock:
http://www.remington.com/products/f..._11-87_sportsman_shurshot_camo_cantilever.asp

Whatever you end up getting, I think the most important thing is that she gets some good practice and becomes very familiar with it and confident with it.
 
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Has she tried a 12gauge? Let her shot some light loads, then full loads, but don't tell her about "how hard it kicks." Explain what to expect, but most people who flinch badly are scared of whats going to happen before it does.

Also, consider the terrain - what will she be wearing? If she's wearing a big padded jacket, the clothing will help absorb the blow. Put on a bigger recoil pad and then get a shoulder pad. Should be fine after that.
 
I worked up on Prince of Wales Island doing survey work in the early 1990s and came across several bears. I don't know that any wanted to eat me per se and all of the confrontations turned out fine...so that is the limit of my quals.

Okay, the fact that your sister is 5' and 115 lbs really should not matter on the issue of recoil from a shotgun. It is really more about technique than mass.

It has been suggested that she use reduced recoil ammo. This is not a very good idea for bears where you do want as much penetration as you can get from a shotgun. If you want to reduce recoil, then either go with a good recoil reducing shoulder stock pad or get a Knoxx Spec Ops stock installed. They do a great job.

If going with a leverl gun, a .30-30 is pretty good, but a .45-70 would be better. The recoil of a .45-70 from a Marlin 1895 isn't as much as from a 12 ga shooting full power slugs.
 
Most of these people are dead...

Quote: ok, i want opinions from people who actually do or have done this kind of thing...if u havent come face to face with something that wants to eat you, stay out of it.
 
My advice would be to give her something she can shoot well before you give her something that she is scared to shoot at all. If she is hurt by shooting the 12 gauge then I wouldnt even consider it. The 20 gauge pump sounds like a decent idea, but I would add also maybe a good bolt gun in a round that she can handle. A .308 dont kick all that bad and with the right kind of bullet should do well on anything talked about except the great big bears.

I also think the .44 lever you talked about was a great Idea. I have not shot one but they are making a .480 lever as well I dont know how hard it would kick but should be hell on wheels for just about anything in front of it out to self defense ranges.

I would suggest above all to get her something she will shoot alot to get decent with it.
 
Hi,

Change "less than 8 months to practice" to 'more than 6 months to practice'. One way and your beating a deadline, the other way and your using time to your advantage.

If it were me going where she's going I'd have a 7mm Rem Mag as a minimum and a 12ga pump by it's side.
 
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My experience with man eaters is pretty limited to Florida Bears and only once. I got lucky(very Lucky) and managed it with a .357.

That being said, I think a 500 or 590 would be a good choice for her. Even with a short barreled unit, with a good short stock with recoil reducing pad, it should be pretty manageable, even with the 3' loads. My ex-fiance' was about the same frame size and she had no problems putting a few slug rounds down range with my 500 Cruiser after I fitted a padded stock.
 
You say she is tough, and sounds like she is based on what she is doing for work, I bet she could handle the 12 ga. or a larger cal. rifle.

Besides its not like she is going to be shooting a few rounds of trap with it.

In a real encounter she would get off maybe 3 or 4 shots tops, I would bet pretty much anyone could deal with that to save their own life.

But, I've a question; the company she works for requires her to have a firearm but does not issue them or have a requirement of what their employees should have?? :scrutiny:

:eek:Do they at least send their people to a firearms safety course?? :uhoh: If not, it really opens them up to problems.

It really surprises me that a company would be ok telling people they need to have a firearm but then leave the type up to the employee.

Your sis might want to doubble check look that just to be sure.
 
…and no way she can handle a 12ga. with any effectiveness.
Click to expand...

Has she ever fired a 12 gauge with a Knoxx recoil reducing stock? My son weighs less than she does and he can shoot full power loads all day long.
 
the catch is she is 5' and 115lbs. tough as hell, but little shooting experience and no way she can handle a 12ga. with any effectiveness.
Click to expand...

Picture someone throwing a softball at you. Can you shoot it before it hits you?

That's the size and speed of your target. Good luck.
 
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