New vs Old Remington 1100's

[sumpnz]

So I've got some money in the gun fund, and since it looks like I won't be getting the AR-15 I thought I was, I've decided to get a shotgun instead. I test drove rbernie's 1100 20ga a couple years ago and fell in love.

I was looking for an 1100 20ga to buy but had thought they were out of production. Come to find out they still make them, so I'm not stuck with a second-hand one.

But, what I what I would like to know is whether there is any advantage, besides price, to the older 1100's vs the new ones. E.g. Along the lines of when Winchester screwed up the Model 70 when they changed production techniques and designs in 1964.

While I'm at it, is there much to be gained by getting the G3 version over the Sporter version if I did get a new 1100?

 

[ArmedBear]

The G3 is different from the 1100. The 1100 does not have a self-adjusting gas system. The G3 does. Typically, the 1100 will have a 2 3/4" chamber; the G3 will have a 3" chamber and shoot all sorts of rounds. Of course, I've never even seen a 3" 20 Gauge shell, so who cares, really?

My ancient 1100 Magnum is a well-made gun; some of the recent ones do not have that reputation. The new 1100 Sporting line is the real 1100, with the simpler gas system.

I don't know if I'd buy a new one. You can find a used one for relatively cheap, and it should be at least as good, and perhaps better than the new one. Balance of the LT-20 is excellent.

That said, the 1100 is a relatively heavy gun. For upland hunting, I'd look at a Beretta 391, and I'd skip the G3.

For skeet or something, I have no educated opinion about an autoloader, other than that I think that an autoloader is a PITA at the range. My old 1100 sits in the safe now.

For the prices they want for the likes of the G3 these days, I'd skip the autoloading contraption and just get a decent Over/Under. But where I live, we have to plug our shotguns to 2+1 for all hunting. I'll take two chokes over 3 shots, and the O/U is safer in a group hunting situation, easier to clean, and has far less mechanical stuff to fail or get dirty and stick.

 

[Virginian]

I got my first 1100 in 1963, and a second in 1964. I still have it. I also have an 1100 LT20 with the first generation checkering pattern that I found NEW 5 years after they switched. An empty box at the gun store turned out not to be. I am getting ready to buy an 1100 28 gauge, and another 12 so I can restore my original back to 2-3/4" status, and another 20 gauge to teach my stepson how to shoot. Those are the only non- S x S shotguns I own. I do not have the time or inclination to shoot like I used to, and switching around guns doesn't help, so I am getting out of the double barrel business.
I am of the opinion that the 1100 handles and fits me better than anything else. I have had all the gun dealers and my buddies try to talk me into Ithaca 51s, Winchester SXs, Benellis, Berettas, Mossbergs, and Brownings (all incarnations) through the years, and I tried them, but no thanks.
I believe the 1100 handles best with the non-screw in choke tube barrels, but the newer ones are better, and as long as I can stay under 28" I am okay. Through the years I have owned 4 other 1100s, and an 11-87, and all I have ever had go wrong is one broken ejector, one carrier latch (some dummy pulled the trigger with the gun disassembled), and I lost an operating handle when I got two of them switched cleaning two guns at once. I prefer the older 1100s because they are lighter, but they are all pretty darned good.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

(some dummy pulled the trigger with the gun disassembled)

LOL, yeah, getting that wishbone back into its hole requires deft manipulation of ye olde needle-nose pliers, which aren't always there when you need them.

Mines is a four year-old synthetic one, and was (and still is) really tight mechanically, whereas the old-timer who taught me to shoot said that his '60s models were much slicker. (They sure are now, given the innumerable rounds he'd put through them.) This guy got the guns as part of a gig he'd had as a shooting instructor for Dupont, who owned Remington at the time; after he'd taught his class of engineers and whoever, he got (IIRC) two 1100s (12 & 20) and maybe a 20 gauge 870, which were the guns that he'd just used in his instruction.

 

[sumpnz]

OK, so what's the difference between the 1100 20ga and the 1100-LT 20ga? Is the LT just a lighter weight version, or is it something else?

Also, I've noticed that most of the older 1100's have a fixed choke, while the newer ones can use the interchangable chokes. Is this much a deal, and if I get a fixed choke tube, how restricting is it really? Most of the 1100's I've been seeing on Gunbroker have a full choke, with an occasional modified choke.

ETA: I've seen a few posts on here talking about needing new O-rings and springs on the older 1100's. How often do these need replacing, and is it something that someone with modest mechanic skills can handel as a DIY project?

 

[Virginian]

The newer rubber/synthetic 'O' rings do need replacing periodically. If I feel any roughness, I go ahead and replace it. Probably one every two years. I carry a spare in my wallet for "just in case" in the field. My oldest 1100 has the steel 'O' ring. It don't wear out. I have never had to replace a spring, BUT I do clean the action spring in the buttstock and the magazine spring religiously. The action spring especially gets D I R T Y.
The regular 1100 20 gauge has a full sized receiver with a 20 gauge barrel stuck on it. The Lightweight version(s), either LW or LT, have a scaled down true 20 gauge sized receiver, and seem to handle much, much better, in my opinion. Overall stock dimensions are the same.

 

[TAB]

Most of the older 1100 had a mod choke... which for all around use is just fine. In fact in some circles guys would rather have the fixed choke barrel then a newer interchangable one.

I own 5 1100s... I love them all.

1st gun I ever shot was a youth 20 ga 1100. Still by far my favorite gun. Every time I take it out and clean it I see a "wear mark"( scratch, or knick) and it brings back found memorys.

 

[MAX100]

I would go with a Beretta 391 it is more reliable and a better made gun.

I would even buy one of the Turkish made autos instead of the 1100. The Charles Daly 20Ga autos are very well made, very reliable and easy on the wallet too.

GC

 

[ArmedBear]

The LT is AFAIK the current version, and it's the one you can get barrels for.

The original 1100 was a 12 Gauge with a 20 Gauge barrel stuck on it. Some people like them for range use because recoil is minimal. Heavy guns have lower perceived recoil. I have a 12 Gauge and I use a sling in the field. It gets pretty heavy after a couple hours. I'd get the LT if I got a 20, and forget about any other version.

I have a few pet peeves with my 1100. The trigger is a sharp little bit of metal that cuts my finger if my skin is at all dry (which it usually is, around here, in the field). It appears they have not addressed this problem even on the expensive new G3. That, to me, is inexcusable, when I can get a 391 with a nice rounded, wider trigger for less money and get a better gas system, too.

If you take one apart, I mean really take it apart, you find parts that are retained by mashed metal tabs. The internals are a bunch of sheet metal stampings. It's actually amazing that the things work at all, but mine still does after 37 years.

The balance of the 1100 is wonderful. For a few hundred bucks, and old one can be a good gun if it is in good shape. No way, no how would I buy a new one for the money they want. I'd get a Beretta. Try a 391 in 20 before buying the Remington.

 

[sumpnz]

The used 391's seem to be closer to the price of the new 1100's, which of course is quite a bit more than the older 1100's. They may well be worth the price, but I'd like to get a bunch of ammo and range time out the left over money from the $800 in the gun fund. The 391 (or new 1100) would use up pretty much all of that just on the purchase.

What are some other good shotguns that I might want to look at before I buy? I think I've seen sm recommend the Winchester 1400.

 

[MAX100]

Here is a review on the Charles Daly 20Ga semi Auto youth model and the link it came from. It was wrote by one of the Moderators at shotgun world. He bought the CD shotgun for his son. The same shotgun can be had with a regular stock. These shotguns sale for about $359.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=112377




I’ll start by stating this Charles Daly 20ga semi-auto built by Akkar in Turkey came out of the box well oiled and surprisingly clean. This shotgun is an all black plastic stocked model and really does have a decent finish considering it’s a $300 dollar firearm. After an initial thorough first cleaning and oiling, my friend Ron, his son and I got this shotgun on the range this morning & tonight. Here's the 20ga ammunition we used:

Remington Gun Club 2-3/4”, 7/8oz. 8-shot (100-rounds)
Remington Game Load 2-3/4”, 7/8oz. 7&1/2-shot (25-rounds)
Federal Field and Target 2-3/4”, 7/8oz. 7&1/2-shot (100-rounds)
Federal Game Shock High Brass 2-3/4”, 1oz. 6-shot (50-rounds)
Winchester Super Target 2-3/4”, 7/8oz. 7&1/2-shot (50-rounds)
Foicchi Golden Pheasant 3”, 1&1/4oz. 6-shot (6-rounds)
Sellier & Bellot Field Load 2-2/4”, 7/8oz. 7&1/2-shot (6-rounds)

This shotgun fired & cycled every type/brand shell we tried on this list mentioned above 100% every time except for the Winchester Super Target value pack shells at first. The Winchester Super Target failure rate ejecting was 2 out 3 times for about the first 200 rounds fired through this shotgun. After a quick field cleaning at the 200 or so count total, the Winchester shells also started cycling through this Charles Daly with no problems. One of our club members was amazed at how this Charles Daly cycles without mounting the shotgun. He fired this shotgun several times holding the shotgun one armed away from his body with Federal Field and Target loads and this little shotgun cycled every time.

As mentioned, this shotgun is a youth model so it made it tough for many of our adult club members to shoot this short little shotgun consistently well. One thing for sure about this Charles Daly semi-auto 20ga… If you like a super lightweight semi-auto for walking all day, this shotgun might be your ticket. The youth model we tested has a 22” barrel and only weighs 5-3/8oz. This shotgun in the 20ga adult model with a 24” barrel only weighs 5-5/8oz., everyone at our club agreed that this little 20ga indeed has the handling characteristics of the Franchi AL48 20/28ga or the Benelli Montefeltro 20ga .

My friend son is a solid built 9-year old and he didn’t have any problems with the recoil or handling of this shotgun. No doubt because of the lighter weight of this firearm, if you have a smaller framed child or woman this shotgun can really pack a wallop with some of the heavier field or magnum loads. So take this into consideration if you are interested in this shotgun. We also checked and one can purchase an adult size rear back stock direct from KBI-Charles Daly for $47.90.

Operationally wise, we had no problems with this shotgun working properly so far at the little over 300 rounds mark... (Except for the Winchester Super Target shells at first). The safety is at the rear of the trigger guard (Remington style) and works very well. The trigger works decently for a field gun. The bolt cocking hold and release buttons also work without any problems. All three choke tubes (F,M,IC) are easily installed or removed without any problems. The gun has a decent finished vent rib and only 1 standard bead on the very end of the barrel. This shotgun has the best plug design I’ve ever personally seen on any semi-auto shotgun. It slides effortlessly in or out the end of the magazine tube with no problems worrying about the magazine spring or retainer cap flying off. This shotgun loads easily and shells feed into the magazine tube very well. There is no sharp tooling edges as well to cut your fingers on inside the receiver. The gun is easily cleaned for a gas autoloader. I also liked the fact that this shotgun comes with a pilot hole mark if one wants to install a sling post on the rear stock. It's a nice touch that they have taken the guess work out of drilling the stock in the proper place.

After 300+ rounds, this little semi-auto indeed has a long way to go… So far, this brand new Charles Daly Field Hunter gas semi-auto is one of the best values we have seen for a lighter 20ga semi-auto. The gun cycles properly and everything has worked for a new shotgun out of the box. Many of our club members shot this little shotgun and indeed couldn’t get over the initial performance & overall quality of this 20ga for $300. So far everyone today at our club has pretty much given this shotgun an A+ at this point. It dose appear that Charles Daly/Akkar has solved the problems earlier versions of this model had a few years ago from our first impressions today... This is also what our local gun shop is claiming as well. We are going to take this shotgun to the pattern board next week. I keep everyone posted on how well this Charles Daly 20ga semi-auto dose there.


GC

 

[ArmedBear]

The old 1100 swings and shoots well and is a good choice if you don't mind tinkering now and then, and keeping it relatively clean inside. Be careful not to cut yourself. Seriously.

New 1100 Sporting 20 MSRP is $1084
G3 MSRP is $1239 with case
New 391 Urika MSRP is $1050 with case (Basic walnut-stocked Italian-made 391)
3901 Statesman (walnut) MSRP is $900 (US-made 390 redux)
391 Teknys MSRP is $1425 wth case (prettied-up model)

Generally, the Berettas have the features of the G3, and a better gas system. The prices vary mainly with appearance.

An old 1100 can be had for a lot less than that, but you were asking about the G3, which is a relatively new model.

Also, note that, if you don't get the gun in the configuration you really want, the cost of changing out the barrel can make it a not-so-great deal. I bought one with a cut-down stock, and replacing that wasn't free, either, even though I got an old (beat but refinished) stock set for relatively cheap. I'd say, pay a few bucks more for a good one (pristine guns can be had for under 500 bucks), don't plan on fixing up a cheaper one, unless it's almost free.

 

[ImARugerFan]

Used is sooo much cheaper when it comes to 1100s. The o-ring is a 30 second job that you should do once in a while. You can get 10 packs of the o-rings on ebay for cheap, or some can find them at hardware stores. Don't order them from remington direct.

 

[ArmedBear]

True re O-rings. Keep a bag around. ALWAYS take at least one with you when hunting. They harden over time and should be replaced, and they sometimes get lost at the worst possible times (e.g. a friend of mine who went hunting in the Aleutians only to find that his only O-ring was stuck to his other barrel, back in San Diego).

Or just buy a Beretta or Brownchester. And I say that as someone whose only semiauto is an 1100.

 

[sumpnz]

Are these O-rings to seal the barrel to the receiver, or are they for some internal portion of the gas system?

Will the new 1100 barrels fit on the older 1100? I ask becuase if I wanted to get a screw-in choke rather than a fixed choke barrel it would be nice to know if that were possible.

Are the 391's fixed or screw-in chokes?

 

[ArmedBear]

Will the new 1100 barrels fit on the older 1100?

No. However, they've made the "new" 1100 LT 20 receiver for some time now. If you have the old 20 Gauge, you're generally SOL unless you can find an old barrel, and they were made before the screw-in choke became common. Many are ribless. I would avoid any pre-LT 20, like the plague, unless you know you want one and why.

The 391 has screw-ins, the 390 and 3901 have screw-ins. And they all have ribbed barrels. They weren't made before these things became standard-issue.

The O-ring is the last of the parts you put on the mag tube when you clean/oil the gun and stack the piston seal parts in front of the big piston that fits on the mag tube. It's #12 in this picture. The other two parts are #73 and #74. The piston system works a lot like the 870 pump, but the 1100 pumps itself.

 

[Virginian]

I just love the carte blanche declarations. i.e. ; "better" gas system.
All Remington 1100 barrels will interchange within series and gauge. An LT 20 needs an LT 20 barrel, and LW 20 needs an LW 20 barrel. The 12 gauge 2-3/4" barrels all swap, and Remington also has a 3" barrel for 2-3/4" receivers to allow shooting steel shot. But, I have had one of these for eons and shot everything (tungsten, lead, bismuth, tungsten matrix) 3" out of it with no ill effects.
Note: an 11-87 is not an 1100.

 

[ArmedBear]

It IS a better gas system, though.

"Carte blanche declarations" are entirely legitimate when comparing two different designs with the same function. One can indeed be better than the other, in terms of engineering, reliability, simplicity, maintenance, longevity, flexibility.

And the Beretta gas system wins on all counts except for simplicity. It runs longer between cleanings, it does not have the O-ring that loses its ability to form a seal, it's a much newer and well-engineered design that draws lessons from older existing designs like the 1100, it is self-adjusting.

Or, in simpler words, it's a better gas system.

That doesn't mean the 1100 doesn't work. It is, however, an ancient design made of stampings. It was the first really successful gas-operated mass-production shotgun.

I've got one. It works. Is the 39x's gas system "better"? Without a doubt.

Funny aside: a friend who owns a couple machine shops, and is an avid hunter and sometime competition shooter, is a skilled amateur gunsmith and has fixed a lot of these things over the years. If he wants you to hand him a hammer, he says, "Hey, pass me that Remington Loading Tool, would you?" And I've seen why.

An LT 20 needs an LT 20 barrel, and LW 20 needs an LW 20 barrel

True (and there's a third kind, also). And the only new-production barrels you can get are LT's, AFAIK. Otherwise, you're stuck with old barrels.

Again, I shoot with ribless barrels sometimes, too. They work fine for me. But a fixed-choke barrel with no rib is not by any means an apples-to-apples comparison to a modern barrel with a good rib and good screw-ins, designed for all types of modern shot. This should be taken into account when figuring out how much you really want to pay for an old gun.

 

[kentucky_smith]

Which Beretta gas system? I would dare say the 303,390 better and less complicated than the 391.

I was never a big 1100 fan (although that's what Dad has used since 1971--same gun, same o-ring) because I thought too heavy. After shooting my best score ever the first time out with a late 60's 1100 trap, I'm now a believer. 300 rounds in a day and I feel like I've been shooting a .22.

I guess it's part of my maturation.

 

[ArmedBear]

Heavy and long is a handicap on quail, and a benefit at the trap range. It all depends...

The 1100 balances very well, and the recoil-absorption is nice (though not any different from another maker's gas gun, really).

Doesn't change what's inside the thing, though...

 

[kentucky_smith]

Just picked up trap, been after quail and grouse for a long time. Whole 'nother ball game, whole diff'rent bat.

 

[Milkmaster]

Seems like any thread these days invloving opinions on Remmy 1100's becomes like discussing Jeff Grodon and Nascar. You either love one or you don't. The argument will never be solved. So many 1100's have been sold that SOMEBODY must like them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

 

[ArmedBear]

Au contraire Milkmaster. I have one and I like how it shoots. But I also know pretty well what's inside it.

Laws, sausages and Remingtons...

I would not buy a new one at the prices they charge.

I thought that sumpnz should get all sides of the answer, not just the usual "I love it!" The 1100, while it swings very well, is not flawless and it is not the end-all shotgun; generally one discovers this from owning at least one.

 

[sumpnz]

So it sounds like the 1100 is quite good for trap, but not so good for quail. Would it be considered a good choice for ducks, doves, or other hunting or other clay games?

 

[Milkmaster]

An 1100 makes an excellent quail gun! Will throw a pattern just as good or like any other major brand semi-auto. What it is good for has a lot more to do with the shooter than the gun itself. Any shotgun needs to be exercised frequently by the owner to become proficient at quail, deer, doves, or anything else. The idea of a gas operated shotgun is to reduce felt recoil by using the energy for ejection and then chambering a new shell. Different brands do it differently. As long as it is reliable, the method doesn't really matter IMHO. Worry less about chewing the Remington, Benelli, Baretta, or any major brand so fine that the decision is worrisome. Most major brands will do what they are designed to do well. Find what fits you and get started. You will be able to trade or aquire different sshotguns later. That is part of the FUN! Good luck!


Edit...O yeah...You can find a "Safe sitter" in a major brand for decent prices at gun shows for a lot less than buying new.