[Newbie] Need help shopping for an AK

[UKWildcatFan]

I'd like it new, with wood furniture. Budget about $700. Century pretty good? Just for plinking.

Thx!

 

[sappyg]

In spite of Century's low reputation recent production is no less than average IMO. It's not over the top but very solid production. These may be the best WASRs produced to date. The VZ2008 milled receivers are exceptional and rival the machining on the Chec bolt.

PAPs have excellent fit and finish at a very competitive price. Can't stand the fit of the stock when mounted.... You might like it.

Others will come along with an opposing view. Best to handle a few AKs for yourself.

 

[js8588]

Century Centurion is the way I'd go

 

[akarguy]

Find a zastava Opap. You can still get them for $550-$600 shipped +transfer. They are no longer being imported. The newer generation Npap's are very solid as well and can be had in the low $500 range

 

[Fishbed77]

Find a zastava Opap. You can still get them for $550-$600 shipped +transfer.

+1

It's hard to beat an O-PAP in that price range.

 

[TanklessPro]

I was in the same boat a couple years ago. I ended up getting an Arsenal and haven't looked back since,but that was a different time and place. I spent around $900 then. Now to try to answer your question.
IMHO, I would not buy the Century without seeing it first. From my experience they are, for the most part, rough around the edges but they work. The worst I saw had the front sight drifted all the way to one side to off set because the barrel and trunion were not straight.
I you can't touch it before you buy it, I would pass.
YMMV

 

[JBrady555]

Check out centerfiresystems.com. They are good people and have ak's for 450.00.

 

[JBrady555]

I personally wouldnt spend big money on a ak. The cheap ones are just fine. They are all built like a tank.

 

[Willie Sutton]

Being a more or less advanced student of the AK, with pre-ban examples of all of the best ones (Galil. Valmet), as well as a selection of varieties both factory built and from parts sets to represent different nations choices, my advice to the new single-rifle buyer remains the same:

Buy the cheapest factory made one you can find. Buy whatever is on the rack at the LGS, and then shoot the heck out of it. None of them are really bad and even the best ones are just... well... AK's. You don't know enough about them to go online, pick and choose, go to a dealer, and have it ordered. That's all further down the road. Walk into a local gun store, see what they have, handle it, look it over, and take it home. It'll be fine. Yeah, you might spend $50 more. <yawn>... so what. It'll be a good rifle.

WASR-10's are fine if that's what they have, if given a choice I would buy a Yugo, and that's about what it'll boil down to.


Willie

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[Nom de Forum]

While I think the Arsenal's are over priced, I bought a SAM7SF. Just like my KAC SR15 has features, a feel, and quality noticeably better than the average AR, the Arsenal is noticeably better than the average AK. The Arsenal is also going to retain value better than an average AK. Sure you can buy a run of the mill AK and have very little problem with it for most uses, but sometimes the more expensive little features make a world of difference for the user's pleasure in operating the rifle.



For what the OP has in mind just about any AK will do.

 

[arizona_cards_11]

I believe Waffen Werks is selling AK74's with Grade 'A' wood at around $659.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/ak74riflewuspartsw1magonly

 

[ShooterGuy]

I cant tell you how many ak types I've owned, but in my experience get yourself a new izshmash saiga 7.62x39, do the same quick mods arsenal does to them so they can call them "ARSENAL" and you'll have the rifle you wont trade for anything else. Vepr's are nice too but pricier. Oh, and avoid century like the plague (and yes I know another poster just said they're the way to go but I'd highly disagree with that endorsement.)

 

[HOOfan_1]

I cant tell you how many ak types I've owned, but in my experience get yourself a new izshmash saiga 7.62x39, do the same quick mods arsenal does to them so they can call them "ARSENAL" and you'll have the rifle you wont trade for anything else. )

Arsenal doesn't sell Saiga's under their name anymore, they are now FIME group (which is from most reports owned by the same company)...and I suspect after Obama's ban on Saigas...that the unmodified guns are probably selling for close to what the modified guns were selling for before the ban..of course if you can find them

 

[Nom de Forum]

I cant tell you how many ak types I've owned, but in my experience get yourself a new izshmash saiga 7.62x39, do the same quick mods arsenal does to them so they can call them "ARSENAL" and you'll have the rifle you wont trade for anything else. Vepr's are nice too but pricier. Oh, and avoid century like the plague (and yes I know another poster just said they're the way to go but I'd highly disagree with that endorsement.)

The modification of Saiga's is an over-simplification of Arsenal's AK models. The Arsenal SAM7SF is not a modified Saiga. I have not seen any modified Saiga's that have the same features as the SAM7SF.

 

[ShooterGuy]

Beyond the fact that the SAM7SF is a Bulgarian MILLED receiver as opposed to stamped, not sure what features would stand apart from it? ...on that note, I'd put my Saiga against it through any trial you could think up confidently any day of the week, and mine would inevitably be lighter while holding it to everything the arsenal is capable of at the same time. Just saying, the only argument I see there is Milled vs Stamped which is apples and oranges.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Beyond the fact that the SAM7SF is a Bulgarian MILLED receiver as opposed to stamped, not sure what features would stand apart from it? ...on that note, I'd put my Saiga against it through any trial you could think up confidently any day of the week, and mine would inevitably be lighter while holding it to everything the arsenal is capable of at the same time. Just saying, the only argument I see there is Milled vs Stamped which is apples and oranges.

Does you Saiga have a hammer forged barrel and is it of high of quality?

Does your Saiga have a very strong and ridgid steel folding stock with a longer than standard AK length of pull and recoil pad?

Does your Saiga have a right-hand folding stock that permits operation of the charging handle and firing while folded?

Does your Saiga have an Optic rail on the receiver (not the receiver cover) that can be can be used when the stock is folded?

Does your Saiga have a pistol grip safety lever that makes operation of the safety easy with the stock folded?

Did your Saiga have all those features when you bought it?

Apples and Oranges? Well stamped receivers certainly are lighter and sufficiently durable but I suspect that the forged receiver on the SAM7FS besides soaking up more recoil, has more inherently accuracy promoting stability and is much more durable.

That is just a start. These are not necessarily features everyone thinks are needed, but I certainly appreciate having them. If I could not have a SAM7SF I certainly would not complain about having a Saiga, I just appreciate the extras the Arsenal has right out of the box.

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^

Pretty sure that parsing the details of a rifle that's out of budget and more advanced in features than the OP is asking about is just wasted effort.

The Waffenwerks AK-74 is likely not the caliber choice for the one rifle owner either.


Back to the basics, of WASR's and Yugos. Either is a fine choice for the budget specified. Spend the balance on a few cases of ammo and go shoot.

The Arsenals and converted Saigas are "Totems of Manhood" who have individual merits that seem to be worth arguing over for those who feel that they are superior for spending more than your specified budget. For any practical use, there's no difference between them and the most basic Yugo. And that's from someone who has examples of each in his rack. Certainly if you WANT a bit better fit and finish and want t upgrade your budget, by all means look at them. But truly... don't expect any truly practical improvement over the basic shooters.


Willie

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[ShooterGuy]

Does you Saiga have a hammer forged barrel and is it of high of quality? Yupp...

Does your Saiga have a very strong and ridgid steel folding stock with a longer than standard AK length of pull and recoil pad? Personally wouldn't want that anyway, but thats an opinion question and not really a benchmark, however yes mine does have a folding stock that is rigid and adjustable length.

Does your Saiga have a right-hand folding stock that permits operation of the charging handle and firing while folded? Yupp...

Does your Saiga have an Optic rail on the receiver (not the receiver cover) that can be can be used when the stock is folded? Yupp...

Does your Saiga have a pistol grip safety lever that makes operation of the safety easy with the stock folded? Yupp..

Did your Saiga have all those features when you bought it? Nope, but with the money I saved doing it myself I even added a different muzzle break, QD sling mounts, Midwest quad rail, recoil buffer, oh... and about 1k rounds of ammo.

The rest of the arguments just sound like a guy trying to justify to himself what he spent, I'd bet I'd have the same accuracy at the same ranges that you do provided we use the same loads. Either way it just comes down to the OP's preference and piggy bank.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Does you Saiga have a hammer forged barrel and is it of high of quality? Yupp...

Does your Saiga have a very strong and ridgid steel folding stock with a longer than standard AK length of pull and recoil pad? Personally wouldn't want that anyway, but thats an opinion question and not really a benchmark, however yes mine does have a folding stock that is rigid and adjustable length.

Does your Saiga have a right-hand folding stock that permits operation of the charging handle and firing while folded? Yupp...

Does your Saiga have an Optic rail on the receiver (not the receiver cover) that can be can be used when the stock is folded? Yupp...

Does your Saiga have a pistol grip safety lever that makes operation of the safety easy with the stock folded? Yupp..

Did your Saiga have all those features when you bought it? Nope, but with the money I saved doing it myself I even added a different muzzle break, QD sling mounts, Midwest quad rail, recoil buffer, oh... and about 1k rounds of ammo.

The rest of the arguments just sound like a guy trying to justify to himself what he spent, I'd bet I'd have the same accuracy at the same ranges that you do provided we use the same loads. Either way it just comes down to the OP's preference and piggy bank.

Well it sounds like you have quite a modified Saiga. As far as justifying spending $1330 on a SAM7SF; the convenience of not having to modify a Saiga was to me well worth spending a few more dollars. What kind of money do you have in your Saiga and how much time did you spend putting it together? How about posting a photo so I can see how it compares to the Arsenal?

 

[PabloJ]

Too bad it has to be new. I went with little used Chinese AKM. It was probably made at one factory (not pile of international pats comprising new ones) and all moving parts and control surfaces work very smoothly. The only downside is the gun might be more oxidation prone than those offered with dull coated finishes.

 

[ShooterGuy]

I do love her so, and I didn't mind doing the mods myself at all, it was sort of fun really. Plus they're inside and out. She was one of my first and would be one of my last if it came to it.

I've put it through the ringer, hasn't disappointed yet.

Oh almost forgot a quick summary, I've been playing with this one for years. If I remember right I paid around $400 for it stock out of the box. MPAFG - $30, MW rail - around $100, grip - $30, mako butt - around $160, RJ muzzle - $40, QD's & M3 Sling - $80, man hours are hard to determine since it would include all the trading out of stuff on it over the years too I guess. Thing I've done, polish feed ramp, replaced the trigger assemby with I dont remember what mfg replacement (though there was nothing really wrong with the stock one, I just preferred a tiny bit more pull) and uhh I dont even know what else over the years.

So up front, was around half the price of the Arsenal, but yes you would have to account for whether you have the motivation to do your own work on your rifle.

 

[Inebriated]

you may not find the features of the Arsenal SAM7SF practical improvements over a WASR or Yugo, but all that really means is you have lower standards than what others have for an AK.

Familiarize yourself with the difference between form and function. It's hard to find an AK that doesn't function, and just because the Arsenal has slightly better form, doesn't mean it's a more functional rifle.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Familiarize yourself with the difference between form and function. It's hard to find an AK that doesn't function, and just because the Arsenal has slightly better form, doesn't mean it's a more functional rifle.

Sure, most AKs from every source almost all always go bang, but that is mere mechanical functioning. As far as familiarity goes; my time stationed at Ft Bragg during the 1980s had me handling and shooting AKs from every manufacturer and observing how they functioned in the hands of hundreds of 18B students. Beyond simple mechanical functioning and accuracy I consider the Arsenal SAM7SF to be more functional from the standpoint of user friendliness.

 

[Inebriated]

Beyond simple mechanical functioning and accuracy I consider the Arsenal SAM7SF to be more functional from the standpoint of user friendliness.

I would call that form. I'm not going to dissolve this thread, but I just don't see the SAM7SF as anything more than another milled AK with a neat safety.

Trust me, I'm not bashing the SAM7SF, I've been in the market for a SAM and I own another Arsenal myself. I'm just saying that there isn't much that's uniquely more functional about it. Yeah the safety is cool, but a Kreb's is just as quick and training to use the standard safety has kept people alive for decades. The folding stock does nothing for me, and most factory-built AK's have optics rails, the same standard GB/FSB layout, and a somewhat effective brake/comp. Simply put, they all just work.

Personally, of my Arsenal and Saiga, I vastly prefer my Saiga because I've fixed everything I didn't like about the AK-103 design. I put a better comp, a combo FSB/GB, Ultimak rail, and an AR stock adapter to allow a better cheekweld. Is it more functional? Except for having a light, no. But the form is what I like about it. I have a Macbook instead of a Dell. More functional? No. But I like the form better. That's all I'm really getting at.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I do love her so, and I didn't mind doing the mods myself at all, it was sort of fun really. Plus they're inside and out. She was one of my first and would be one of my last if it came to it.

I've put it through the ringer, hasn't disappointed yet.

Oh almost forgot a quick summary, I've been playing with this one for years. If I remember right I paid around $400 for it stock out of the box. MPAFG - $30, MW rail - around $100, grip - $30, mako butt - around $160, RJ muzzle - $40, QD's & M3 Sling - $80, man hours are hard to determine since it would include all the trading out of stuff on it over the years too I guess. Thing I've done, polish feed ramp, replaced the trigger assemby with I dont remember what mfg replacement (though there was nothing really wrong with the stock one, I just preferred a tiny bit more pull) and uhh I dont even know what else over the years.

So up front, was around half the price of the Arsenal, but yes you would have to account for whether you have the motivation to do your own work on your rifle.

That is certainly a nice set-up you've got there. I don't see a photo showing the extra safety lever. I think I prefer the simplicity of the Arsenal folding stock and have no need of the quad rail forearm. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate that this is your baby and molded to be exactly what you want. I am getting the impression you are an AK guy who wanted to create your perfect AK. I am an AR guy that wanted a nearly perfect AK right out of the box that required little more than throwing a T1 on to be perfect for me. If you had to start over today, what do you think it would cost you to build this rifle? I suspect it would still be less than my Arsenal but more than half the price in rifle and parts, and if you calculate labor price definitely closer to Arsenal's price for a stamped receiver model but not a milled such as my SAM7SF.