Newbie question re load calculations

[TomJ]

I pulled load information from Hodgdon's web site for a 9mm 124 grain bullet. The link is below. It does not give you the option to select the type of bullet and lists a HBRN bullet from Berry's. I'm using a HP from RMR of the same weight. Do I need to change the load based on the bullet type, or is load data for a 9mm 124 grain bullet close enough that I can use this data? I did notice on Alliant's web site that the difference between a 124 grain HP and FMJ is minimal, 5.8 versus 5.9 grains using BE-86. That link is attached below as well.


http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1

 

[243winxb]

Links dont go to data. Need powder, and cartridge. 9mm Luger? Basic, a hollow base will not use the same data as a flat base. My guess. Always use the starting load and work up. You may be ok that way.

 

[jwrowland77]

I use this bullet in the Thick Plate and I use the jacketed data for a 124gr bullet. Works great. I run these with a OAL of 1.180". Works great and very accurate in my Walther.

 

[TomJ]

I copied and pasted the starting and maximum data below. I'm using a 9mm luger 124 grain HP from RMR. They have a flat base.


BULLET WEIGHT
124 GR. BERB HBRN TP

C.O.L Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
Hodgdon CFE Pistol .356" 1.150" 4.9 1,006 27,300 PSI
5.5 1,120 33,800 PSI

Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.150" 3.9 920 27,400 PSI
4.4 1,037 31,900 PSI

 

[LeftyTSGC]

I use this bullet in the Thick Plate and I use the jacketed data for a 124gr bullet. Works great. I run these with a OAL of 1.180". Works great and very accurate in my Walther.

I hope your not using 1.180 OAL. SAAMI max is 1.169 OAL

 

[jwrowland77]

I hope your not using 1.180 OAL. SAAMI max is 1.169 OAL

Yep, sure am. Works flawlessly and cycles great. Doesn't come close to the lands. It can out further.

 

[jwrowland77]

I hope your not using 1.180 OAL. SAAMI max is 1.169 OAL

Oh, and velocities are right where they need to be. Verified by chronograph.

Most accurate load I have.

 

[243winxb]

TomJ I'm using a HP from RMR of the same weight. (124)

Why not use the starting load data at Hodgdon for the 125 gr Sierra FMJ bullets? Use the lower starting load with the powder of your choice. The HP-38 is a fast burn rate powder, so maybe use the Hornady 125 gr data? To be safe, load just 1 for a pressure check.

 

[MikeInOr]

I pulled load information from Hodgdon's web site for a 9mm 124 grain bullet. The link is below. It does not give you the option to select the type of bullet and lists a HBRN bullet from Berry's. I'm using a HP from RMR of the same weight. Do I need to change the load based on the bullet type, or is load data for a 9mm 124 grain bullet close enough that I can use this data? I did notice on Alliant's web site that the difference between a 124 grain HP and FMJ is minimal, 5.8 versus 5.9 grains using BE-86. That link is attached below as well.


http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1

I have used the Barry's Hollow Base Round Nose 185gr .45 bullets. I used load data for 180gr HP bullets. My first loads would barely cycle the action. At least in the .45 hollow base bullets there is a big caviety that signifigantly expands the case volume when compared to flat base bullets hence lower pressures and lower power and poor cycling. After working up the load they shot fine.

My point - I would not use hollow base load data interchangably with flat base load data. On the low end of the amount of powder Iam sure you will be fine. When you get to the high end of the charge where pressures tend to spike I would be very concerned about hollow base max loads with flat base bullets.

P.S. Ilike the Barry's HB bullets... they are just different.

 

[TomJ]

Why not use the starting load data at Hodgdon for the 125 gr Sierra FMJ bullets? Use the lower starting load with the powder of your choice. The HP-38 is a fast burn rate powder, so maybe use the Hornady 125 gr data? To be safe, load just 1 for a pressure check.

Everything I've loaded so far has been at the lower end of the spectrum, and I'll continue to do that. I don't want to beat up my guns unnecessarily and have an old injury to my right wrist that causes it to throb after shooting a couple hundred full power loads. I do, however, practice strings of multiple shots with full power loads as that's what I'd have to do in a SD scenario. I'd like to load some ammo closer to standard power loads (not to the level of +P) to practice with.

 

[X-Ring]

I would use Alliant’s data for 124g GDHP. It’s a flat base jacketed bullet. Or Hodgdon’s data for a 125g FMJ. One grain is not going to make much difference.

 

[LiveLife]

One grain is not going to make much difference.

For small case volume 9mm, ONE GRAIN WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[LiveLife]

For RMR 124 gr HP plated bullet, I would use the load data for bullet type that comes closest and more conservative load data especially if you are using shorter COL/OAL.

HAP (Hornady Action Pistol) is a HP bullet and I use load data for 124/125 gr bullets interchangeably as most plated/jacketed bullets vary by 1 grain.

125 GR. HDY HAP W231/HP-38 COL 1.069" Start 2.8 gr (753 fps) 25,300 PSI - Max 3.3 gr (876 fps) 33,600 PSI

If you are using longer OAL, you can always go higher with the powder charge.

 

[Buck13]

For small case volume 9mm, ONE GRAIN WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

He means one grain of bullet weight: 124 vs. 125

 

[X-Ring]

For small case volume 9mm, ONE GRAIN WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

Referring to the bullet weight not the powder charge.
Then you go and say this.

HAP (Hornady Action Pistol) is a HP bullet and I use load data for 124/125 gr bullets interchangeably as most plated/jacketed bullets vary by 1 grain.

I guess the 1 grain will not make much difference to you. To anybody else

“ONE GRAIN WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE“.

 

[LiveLife]

Ooops!

It was late after work and I thought 1 grain of powder charge.

Sorry for the mix up.

Yes, 1 grain in bullet weight won't matter much as most plated/jacketed bullets will vary by 1+ grain.

 

[FROGO207]

IMHO The thing to take home here is that a solid or FMJ bullet will be about the same for case capacity BUT a hollow point bullet of the same weight will need to be seated deeper to end up with the sme OAL and that smaller amount of case capacity will raise the pressure of the load using the same charge. The 9MM already is a fairly high pressure round and all loads need to be worked up to stay safe with this in mind.

 

[Dudedog]

Here is some data for the 124gr RMR Expanding HP Jacketed bullet (not the plated target HP)
Mixed Range brass
S+B SP primers
RMR HPs Loaded 1.113 OAL
Springfield 5" 9mm 1911

RMR 124gr HP 4.5gr BE86
1025.00
1032.00
1037.00
1020.00
1014.00
Average 1025.60
ES 23.00
SD 9.18
PF 127.17

This is not the HP but is the RMR 124 FN
RMR 124gr FN BE86 4.7gr 1.08 OAL Outside temp ammo (100ish)
1060.00
1056.00
1059.00
1065.00
1055.00
Average 1059.00
ES 10.00
SD 3.94
PF 131.32

Just to see how cold affected BE86 I put some in the ice chest
RMR 124gr FN BE86 4.7gr 1.08 OAL Ammo out of Ice chest (in plastic bag in ice water)
1042.00
1037.00
1048.00
1020.00
1028.00
Average 1035.00
ES 28.00
SD 11.14
PF 128.34
So being cold made a little difference (probably 80F + diff in ammo temp)

Allaints MAX is 5,8 so -10% would give you 5.3.
If it was me I would go a little lower to start maybe 4.7-4.8 and work up from there.
It seems to me Allliants BE86 data for 9mm runs a bit on the hot side.

RMR 124gr HP 4.8gr CFE Pistol
1049.00
1063.00
1062.00
1079.00
1055.00
Average 1061.60
ES 30.00
SD 11.26
PF 131.64


What Hodgdon powder were you using? I may have some data for the RMR HP, tried it with a couple Hodgdon powders.
I saw BE86 listed.
Hope this helps.

 

[TomJ]

Here is some data for the 124gr RMR Expanding HP Jacketed bullet (not the plated target HP)
Mixed Range brass
S+B SP primers
RMR HPs Loaded 1.113 OAL
Springfield 5" 9mm 1911

RMR 124gr HP 4.5gr BE86
1025.00
1032.00
1037.00
1020.00
1014.00
Average 1025.60
ES 23.00
SD 9.18
PF 127.17

This is not the HP but is the RMR 124 FN
RMR 124gr FN BE86 4.7gr 1.08 OAL Outside temp ammo (100ish)
1060.00
1056.00
1059.00
1065.00
1055.00
Average 1059.00
ES 10.00
SD 3.94
PF 131.32

Just to see how cold affected BE86 I put some in the ice chest
RMR 124gr FN BE86 4.7gr 1.08 OAL Ammo out of Ice chest (in plastic bag in ice water)
1042.00
1037.00
1048.00
1020.00
1028.00
Average 1035.00
ES 28.00
SD 11.14
PF 128.34
So being cold made a little difference (probably 80F + diff in ammo temp)

Allaints MAX is 5,8 so -10% would give you 5.3.
If it was me I would go a little lower to start maybe 4.7-4.8 and work up from there.
It seems to me Allliants BE86 data for 9mm runs a bit on the hot side.

RMR 124gr HP 4.8gr CFE Pistol
1049.00
1063.00
1062.00
1079.00
1055.00
Average 1061.60
ES 30.00
SD 11.26
PF 131.64


What Hodgdon powder were you using? I may have some data for the RMR HP, tried it with a couple Hodgdon powders.
I saw BE86 listed.
Hope this helps.

Dudedog,

Thanks for that information. Those loads are exactly where I'd like to be. I have BE-86 as well as CFE Pistol and HP38.

Tom

 

[Dudedog]

Mixed range brass
S+B SP primers
1.113 OAL
5" Springfield 9mm 1911
RMR Expanding HP Jacketed (not the plated "target" HP)

RMR 124gr HP 4.2gr HP38
1039.00
1022.00
1020.00
1018.00
1026.00
Average 1025.00
ES 21.00
SD 8.37
PF 127.10

This is with the RMR 124gr FN (plated)
I was checking to see what effect OAL had with this bullet.
Note: Different bullets will behave different.
Springfield 1911 9mm 5"
S+B SP Mixed brass

5 shot vels, the average, then ES, SD and PF.
(didn't paste in well)
4.0 HP38 OAL 1.065
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1045 1031 1040 1040 1033 1037.80 14 5.72 128.6872

4.0 HP38 OAL 1.10
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1004 997 1021 1025 1021 1013.60 28 12.32 125.6864

4.2 HP38 OAL 1.065
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1065 1088 1079 1066 1072 1074.00 23 9.62 133.176

4.2 HP38 OAL 1.10
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1077 1062 1063 1055 1071 1065.60 22 8.53 132.1344

4.4 HP38 OAL 1.065
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1116 1111 1103 1107 1109 1109.20 13 4.82 137.5408

4.4 HP38 OAL 1.10
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1099 1113 1112 1098 1116 1107.60 18 8.44 137.3424

 

[TomJ]

Mixed range brass
S+B SP primers
1.113 OAL
5" Springfield 9mm 1911
RMR Expanding HP Jacketed (not the plated "target" HP)

RMR 124gr HP 4.2gr HP38
1039.00
1022.00
1020.00
1018.00
1026.00
Average 1025.00
ES 21.00
SD 8.37
PF 127.10

This is with the RMR 124gr FN (plated)
I was checking to see what effect OAL had with this bullet.
Note: Different bullets will behave different.
Springfield 1911 9mm 5"
S+B SP Mixed brass

5 shot vels, the average, then ES, SD and PF.
(didn't paste in well)
4.0 HP38 OAL 1.065
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1045 1031 1040 1040 1033 1037.80 14 5.72 128.6872

4.0 HP38 OAL 1.10
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1004 997 1021 1025 1021 1013.60 28 12.32 125.6864

4.2 HP38 OAL 1.065
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1065 1088 1079 1066 1072 1074.00 23 9.62 133.176

4.2 HP38 OAL 1.10
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1077 1062 1063 1055 1071 1065.60 22 8.53 132.1344

4.4 HP38 OAL 1.065
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1116 1111 1103 1107 1109 1109.20 13 4.82 137.5408

4.4 HP38 OAL 1.10
RMR 124gr FN Average ES SD PF
1099 1113 1112 1098 1116 1107.60 18 8.44 137.3424

Dude dog,

Thanks again. This is great information.

Tom

 

[Dudedog]

Your welcome, glad to be able to help out.
Most of my "fun" load I load to about 1030-1060fps with 124/125s.
Serious stuff a bit heavier.
All the above were "fun" loads.
The plated FN loads between jacketed and lead.
With the plated bullet (not the jacketed HP) 4.4 of HP38 is getting close to a MAX charge.
Notice the vels with the plated bullet were a bit higher than the jacketed with the same charge.