Next cartridge to become obsolete?

[lbmii]

The Remington Ultra Mags went over like a lead ballon.

You know the 357 mag is a big favorite with me but it is way down from where it used to be at and the ammo is high dollar.

The 10 gauge went under when the 3 1/2 12s came in.

I would say that with more and more 25 auto size 380s out there that the 25 and 32acp are ify. The 25 and 32 will stay around but fewer pistols will be chambered for them. The 25 is only chambered in cheap autos and that market was hit hard with shipping restrictions and thus higher costs. But even cheap autos have gone up in caliber from the 25. The 32acp made a big come back with all those states going to CCW but I think the 380 will now become the CCW of choice.

Two rounds that never really were are the 50auto and the 500 S&W Special.

 

[Harry Paget Flashman]

I think the 5.7X28mm is going to go away. I wish it weren't so or that I didn't think this way. It keeps me from buying an FN Five-seveN.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

What makes a particular cartridge obsolete?

Hmmm. Good question. That's kind of hard to define. There could be many different definitions. The military considers .30-06 as obsolete, but we don't. Here's some ideas though.

If a cartridge is no longer manufactured as new (not commercial reloads), it can be considered obsolete. This means, if you go to all your gun stores and can't find it, and you get online and check Midway or whatever major seller and no one has it - it's obsolete. This doesn't apply to shortages or import issues.

I wouldn't consider a cartridge that might still be popular today as not-obsolete because there is a large reloader following of it.

The exception would be if there are still new production firearms. I guess that would mean firearms made to be chambered in that cartridge. Not just barrel swaps. If you consider barrels, then add handloader followings...then any wildcat out there can be considered non-obsolete.

Hypothetically:

Let's say Kimber sells .38super pistols, but absolutely no one manufactures new factory .38super. I wouldn't consider it obsolete. That would be an exception only because new production firearms are being made for that cartridge.


A cartridge exists partially in the production of firearms for it, and the production of ammo. If both aren't happening, it's gone. If firearms are made, it isn't gone.

 

[Cosmoline]

WSSM's for sure, and probably the .35 WSM even though it's one of the more interesting of the short mags. The other WSM's will probably linger on.

The .17 has really taken off locally, which is surprising since it has no practical use in this state. If that's any indication I suspect it will keep kicking around.

.41 Magnum, 10mm and the like aren't going to completely die off. Though they never took off as much as expected, there are still hundreds of thousands of firearms out there chambered for them and those firearms tend to be in the hands of active shooters.

.38 S&W is slowly but surely fading away. No new firearms have been made for it for many decades now. The remaining stock of breaktops has almost totally shifted from pockets to shelves. I don't think there will be a factory manufacturer for this round by the end of the decade. Indeed, I suspect the current stock may have been from old runs and once its gone that's it.

I suspect the .25 ACP is also going to die off. There are still quite a few wee semis chambered for it out there, but they don't get used much if at all.

.307 Win. and .300 Savage are sadly headed away, as is the .250-3000. They will be missed, but not by enough of us.

Though Marlin made a batch of new rifles for it a few years back, I also suspect the .32-20 will be doomed as what's left of the stock of rifles out there makes its way to the collectors' safes and museums. The problems with weak revolvers and extremely low SAAMI max pressure in factory rounds has already made this a handloader's proposition if you plan on shooting your rifle much.

Likewise, the .30-40 Krag is doomed. It hasn't been chambered in bupkus for many long decades and the existing stock is aging. It's a real shame, since when loaded heavy the round will drop big game like a magnum at close range with a fraction of the recoil.

 

[depicts]

.250-3000 Savage

Matt G and Cosmoline.... I've been dreading the day my beloved .250 "goes away" for 20 years, and it keeps hanging on. I know I'm just a sentimental old fool, but I love that round. Sure you can get a few hundred fps more in other, newer loads, but the .250 can still do a great job on deer to small varmints.

I'm always keeping my eye out for bolt guns in this chambering. I should have grabbed a Ruger when they were new...hard to find now.

Oh well, I have about 300 factory cases from the past few years that I can reload, so I'll be shooting it.

With all the rounds everyone is naming as on their way out, sounds like there will be a lot of collectable ammo out there. Maqybe I'll put some aside with my boxes of .35 Remington, .38 S&W, Savage .300 and .250, and all the .25,.32acp,32 Long, and .380, .22 shorts, 222 Remington and Sweet Sixteen shotgun shells I have tucked away.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Huh, I'd never thought of .25ACP going under until I read this thread.

Now that I think about it, most of the good-quality .25ACP pistols out there have gone out of production or can't be imported: Colt, FN, Astra, CZ. Seecamp made some, but their .32 is far better known, and now they've moved on to .380.

There are a whole ton of junk guns from 1970-2000 floating around in .25ACP, but a lot of those are still probably loaded with the box of ammo they were bought with.

But the main thing about the future of the .25ACP: it seems that even the cheaper manufacturers are moving to higher calibers. The Bryco and Jimenez are in .380 and 9mm, the Hi-Points (supposedly a good step above quality-wise) are in .380/9mm/45ACP. Is even the bottom-end of the gun market moving away from .25ACP? With the demise of the Beretta Jetfire, there's not much quality left in the quarter-bore market.

-MV

 

[R.W.Dale]

I think that the .260 remington already has one foot in the grave , it's biggest fault is it isn't 7mm-08

.450 marlin is also on life support. The only thing this cartrige has done is to teach everybody how hot 45-70 should be.

All of the WSM and SAUM chamberings EXCEPT for the .270 it's the only one that fills a niche, The shooting public just didn't seem to fall for this one.

6.8SPC was stillborn from the start.


On the 17 HMR I think there are already more rimfires out there for this round then there are for 22 WMR. It's here to stay even if nobody else ever bought another new rifle.

 

[racenutz]

Whenever I see this topic come up I always think of the .225 Winchester. Even though it was a factory chambering for only 8 years and was basically killed off by the 22-250 being standardized by Remington a year after it introduction it is still being loaded http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=X2251&cart=MjI1IFdpbmNoZXN0ZXI=

It highly unlikely any of the cartridges that have been popular for many years (30-06, .270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, etc) will ever be obsolete (as long as we still own firearms that is) and even those cartridges that aren't offered in new guns will have factory ammo available for many years to come.


As for reloading, any cartridge that can be made from another quickly & easily (.250 Savage from .308 Winchester for instance) will never be truly obsolete but others that cannot be made from another cartridge will eventually be dead (.17 HMR, .225 Winchester, .307 Winchester, etc)

 

[trickyasafox]

32 special, which sucks, its a nice round too.

 

[xdoctor]

I live in constant fear that there won't be an 7mm STW for elk season next year. Been stockpiling brass for a few years now.

 

[odysseus]

Can't believe someone said .17. That's a growing round in the varmint shooter world more and more.

Certainly I see .45 GAP stop being made in new firearms. Just no love really around for it. Not many buyers...

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Can't believe someone said .17. That's a growing round in the varmint shooter world more and more.

I agree. Picture this:

A ten acre+/- horse pasture full of prairie dogs, farthest shot is about 200 yards. A centerfire will put the dogs down after about three shots. The dogs are not afraid of 22lr but it is ineffective past 100 yards, even with hyper velocity rounds. This is where the .17 HMR shines.

Last spring, we hunted just such a pasture. Sandy took the close dogs with a scoped 10/22 and Stingers. Anything past 100 yards was MINE.

Between about 9 and 11 am, we killed about 70 p'dogs. Most had fallen to the .17.

The little round just plain kills way better than it should.

 

[Zen21Tao]

10mm is a great round that hasn't managed to gain the appreciation it deserves. The same goes for the .357Sig. The .357Sigs interchangeablity and ballistics make it an impressive round. Luckily both the .357Sig and 10mm have enough of a following to keep them from becoming obsolete.

I wish that 7.62x39mm and the 5.45x39mm are the next rounds on the way to out being replaced by wide spread acceptance for the .223 and .308. Think of the possabilities, no more AKs

 

[Eleven Mike]

Shouldn't the GAP stick around just because it is made to fit in a 9mm or .40 cal frame? Seems a lot of pistol makers would find it easier to make a GAP than an ACP. I really doubt that a .45 caliber pistol round would fail to sell. Then again, Ruger's new line of auto-pistols started with the .45 ACP, so maybe that's not even an issue.

 

[Leif]

As much as it pains me to write this, because I love the cartridge, I think .44 special is slated for extinction, though not for a little while yet.

I'd have thought it might be .30 carbine, but there just are too many shootable M1 carbines still, so that will be awhile I guess.

How about .222? It seems largely to have been eclipsed by .223, at least in the US.

 

[Ron James]

I think the .357 Sig may go. BTY It's not neck down to .357, it's neck down to .355, in other words it's a Super Nine. Sig just wanted to cash in on the picture of a .357.

 

[gazpacho]

45 GAP and 6.8 SPC

 

[Grey54956]

No modern cartridge ever becomes obsolete. There will always be someone buying any cartridge. This is because shooters have very varied tastes. Some people still like or believe in the superiority of .38 Super. Heck, a few years ago, I was looking for one myself. There will always be someone who sees the .45 GAP as having an advantage over .45 ACP due to cartridge length and frame size. The .32 Magnum can't be killed because someone will always perceive it as being a little more concealable than a .38 Special, which honsetly should be obsolete in its own right, but someone always must extoll the virtues of the venerable and easy shooting .38.

It is difficult to obsolete a cartridge because there are so many firearms and ammunition companies. Now you have a number of smaller ammunition suppliers. They will be happy to crank out niche ammunition which isn't terribly unaffordable.

 

[13.45]

+1 for 45gap

 

[michael_aos]

Quote:
"I think that the .260 remington already has one foot in the grave"

Really? I was thinking this is a real up-and-comer. More factory and lots of custom rifles chambered in it.

Mike

 

[Crosshair]

+1 about the 260 Remington. It has two faults.

1. Cheap Swede Mausers gave 6.5x55 a head start.
2. The 260 uses a short action, that limits the OAL too much to use the heavier bullets and keep powder capacity. 6.5x55 uses a longer action and can take the heavy bullets better.

 

[ARTiger]

"Obsolete" What's that mean really? You can find ammo for most anything ever made if you look hard enough. To me obsolete is something like .36 rimfire, etc. . . . 19th. century cartridges at the beginning of the metallic cartridge era. surpassed by better centerfire technology. Is there really a centerfire cartridge produced since 1900 that you can't get ahold of a few if you try really hard and spend the necessary money? I mean really, other than the manufacturing oddities of one weird gun made for a likewise weird round, is there anything that was ever mass produced gun-wise in the 20th century that is truly impossible to find ammo for?

Not to hijack a good thread, but here's an idea: Why not let's have some fun with this? If you have what you think is a really obsolete cartridge, name it and that will be a challenge for the rest of us to find a "purchasable" stock of the same caliber.

Guidelines: Obsolete: Meaning no completely loaded ammunition available in that caliber for purchase by the general public. Qualifiers: Guns in said caliber mass produced by 2 or more manufacturers after 1900 . . . "purchasable" stock meaning at least one box (20+) of ammunition [complete loads - not just brass] in that caliber available for sale to the general public.

 

[evan price]

How about 7.62x54R for Moisan Nagant? Sure there are lots now but who knows in the future. Nothing new will be made for the cartridge.

I don't see 7.62x39 AK/SKS ammo going ANYWHERE for the next 50 years; there are too many of Mr. Kalashnikov's inventions in too many hands around the world to drop that cartridge.

Even though there are still guns for it, the .32 ACP (7.65 Rem) looks like a dud to me compared to you can fit .380/9mm Kurtz guns in the same size package. I know Beretta Tomcat, Seecamp, Kel-Tech P32, etc have 32ACP offerings but the .380's are the same size.

+1 on .25 auto going bye bye. What uses this anymore?

I hate to say it because I own and shoot them, but I dread the day when 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser ammo is not available for my M38. I save brass even though I do not reload.

 

[CSA 357]

what about the 22 magnum?looks like every one wants a 17 cal now! and ammo for the 22 mag is high , just a thought! *csa*

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

How about 7.62x54R for Moisan Nagant? Sure there are lots now but who knows in the future. Nothing new will be made for the cartridge.

Bad call. That's still used today by the Russian military in their belt fed machine guns. I don't know of any new manufacture rifles (except maybe Saiga type rifles) in that cartridge, but there is such a massive amount of milsurp rifles that it will be around a long time. Wolf, S&B and a few others produce this ammo for the commercial market right now.


10mm could make a comeback. 10mm is one FBI massacre away from acceptance. If the .40S&W fails to stop some drugged up psychopath, and the blame game begins on cartridge once again, what do you go to?

what about the 22 magnum?looks like every one wants a 17 cal now! and ammo for the 22 mag is high , just a thought!

You're right. It is like $10 a box to buy premium .22mag ammo. This is to have a chance at competing with the .17hmr. The .17hmr beats it in virtually all respects except bullet weight. Some hunters still feel the .22mag is better in the 100-130 yard range on rabbits and other game being a "faster stopper"....