Next logical step up from a 308

[scythefwd]

If you purchase a Lee anniversary reloading kit, $100 ish, you will be able to match factory .30-06 speeds with your .308. Whether your rifle will respond well (accuracy, not blow up type response) is another story. This is just using published load data that is below SAAMI specifications.

 

[Robert]

I probably sound like a wuss; which is not the case.

I do not think that, and if I came across like that I am sorry.

 

[scythefwd]

sleepyone. I'm not downing you in any way. It is just that I have fired a .300 wby mag, and it was a good thump. I can fire my .30-06 all day long and not feel it, but I would have to stop after a box or so out of that .300 wby until I got used to it. There really is a huge difference in kick we are talking about here. I would hate to see you spend money on a gun and the have it kick too much to shoot (if you buy it as a shooter, a wall hanger is a different story). I only buy guns to shoot so to own one that was too much for me would really bother me.

 

[sleepyone]

no offenses taken, guys! Great info from everyone!

 

[wyohome]

It's the best all around cartridge ever devised

Did the military replace it with the .308 to save on 2mm of brass?

 

[9mmepiphany]

If you doubt compare the 264WM to the 300WM.

the .264WM is a very specialized round designed to shoot pronghorn antelope.

a 6.5x55mm loaded with 156-160gr bullets has great thump, with 120-139gr it is a great all-around chambering

i'm thinking a North American hunting battery should consist of the
1. .204
2. .260 or 6.5x55mm
3. .375 H&H

but then i'm not a big fan of recoil or blast

 

[9mmepiphany]

Did the military replace it with the .308 to save on 2mm of brass?

they replaced it, because they couldn't wrap their minds around a true intermediate cartridge, like the Russians could...i guess they just figured the Germans went down the wrong path...and figured that they could force it down the thoat of NATO as "short enough" to be controlable in full auto fire

 

[saturno_v]

Did the military replace it with the .308 to save on 2mm of brass?

The "brass" (pun intended), a.k.a. the Military, was not interested in hunting animals weren't they??

They wanted a more compact cartridge compared to the 30-06 even if it meant losing a bit of ballistic performance (the era of 1000+ yard shots between opposite trenches was over), but as 9mmepiphany said, they did not want to go all the way down to intermediate power level liek the Russians did.

The 308 was born as a comprosise to a compromise...do not get me wrong, it is an excellent cartridge but it does nto have the flexibility and the performance (when bot loaded at full potential) of the 30-06.

Once, as we were discussing cartridges wildlife protection with one guy at a gun show, he said, "I do not understand why someone want to use a cartridge (the 30-06) designed to be used against human targets for big bruin protection"...I replied to him: "well the 30-06 was designed to be effective against humans at distances well in excess of 1000 yards....even a 9mm handgun round is designed to be used against human targets.....at 50 yards or less....big difference"...the other people around us laughed loudly...

 

[ArmedBear]

Don't forget that the .30-06 as it was used by the military when the .308 was adopted was not equal to the modern hunting cartridge. Note that you are advised not to shoot even factory hunting ammo in a Garand.

And yes, the military did do it to save brass, and weight, and space.

The ONLY and I mean ONLY reason I can think of to get a .308 hunting rifle is to get a lighter, shorter rifle than a standard-length cartridge. If I want a bit less oomph than a .30-06, I'll take a .270 with a much flatter trajectory, not a .308.

What the world really needs is better factory support of the .260, which is much better matched to the case size for hunting purposes.

 

[saturno_v]

+1 ArmedBear

Modern day 30-06 loads, even the standard commercial ones are not your grandfather 30-06...modern slow burning powders have improved this old workhorse considerably...some loadings nowdays approach 300 Win Mag performance still within pressure specs...

Case in point...old standard military 150 gr. regular infantry loads were clocked around 2700 fps or so.....common commercial 150 gr. hunting loads reach 2900 and more...with some powders nowdays you can go over 3000 still within pressure limits.

 

[scythefwd]

saturno_V - 30-06- H4350 - 62.0 (compressed load) under a 150 gr. pill will put out 3068 fps and only have 58080 psi out of a 24" test barrel (max load).

Starting load .300 WM - imr4831 - 70.4 under a 150 gr. pill will put out 3001 fps. Now max load is slightly over 3300 fps.

Looks like SV got it right on the nose.

 

[MJR007]

338 with a good break and pad.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I once went down the magnum road...

All the up to a 340 Weatherby, super ballistics/great energy. Had a 338 Win mag, again good ballistics and energy. It seemed to kick a bit more than the 340. Had a 300 Win mag, good intermediate caliber. I have one 7mm Rem mag left. Seems I've always had one, for at least 28 or so years. Good choice, fast/flat/energy. However, it'll probably be moved along shortly, I just don't have anywhere to justify shooting it.

Right now I'm in the 257, 25 06, 6.5x55, 308 spectrum. And ideally, that'll cover just about anywhere I intend to hunt from now on.

 

[sleepyone]

I once went down the magnum road...

All the up to a 340 Weatherby, super ballistics/great energy. Had a 338 Win mag, again good ballistics and energy. It seemed to kick a bit more than the 340. Had a 300 Win mag, good intermediate caliber. I have one 7mm Rem mag left. Seems I've always had one, for at least 28 or so years. Good choice, fast/flat/energy. However, it'll probably be moved along shortly, I just don't have anywhere to justify shooting it.

Right now I'm in the 257, 25 06, 6.5x55, 308 spectrum. And ideally, that'll cover just about anywhere I intend to hunt from now on.

that is a good mixture. save yourself some money and abuse at the same time and still drop anything in its tracks in the lower 48.

No that I think about it, if I am ever fortunate enough to go on an elk or moose hunt, the rifle will be the least of my expenditures.

 

[Steve Marshall]

If you can buy .308 factory loads with a premium bullet, your problem is solved. Barnes X-bullet comes to mind. Failing that, ask around at the local gun shop or range to see if maybe someone can load something for you. If you are calling it a day over recoil with the .308, magnums are clearly not the way to go. But the various 7's would be better in your situation than any 30 and certainly anything bigger.
I once shot a .458 prone, once. Sometime later, I found myself whining about 30-06. Fast forward 10 years and I shoot 40 to 50 in my bolt rifle. In shirt sleeves. So that's the other aspect. You might shoot your .338 fine for some time and then dread the sight of it in your safe. And to theose that will say the .308 can't handle elk, tell that to the ones harvested by 30-30's.

 

[ArmedBear]

If you can buy .308 factory loads with a premium bullet, your problem is solved.

The trajectory still sucks. Elk live in some crazy country, at least around here.

if I am ever fortunate enough to go on an elk or moose hunt

I'm fortunate in that going on an elk hunt can mean simply buying a tag and driving my Jeep down the street and up a dirt road. Moose are a bit farther, but not much -- good luck getting a tag, though.

But sleepyone's point still holds true. I don't think it necessarily makes sense to buy a specialized rifle for a hunt you don't even have planned. And I doubt you (the OP) want to be shooting a big magnum a lot for fun, for a number of reasons. (Some people do, but it doesn't sound like that's your particular fetish.)

If in doubt, get a .270 or a .30-06.

I'd like a .240 or .257 Weatherby, but that's because I have access to pronghorn hunting. The average shot is probably 300-400 yards, and you can't exactly stalk to within 50 yards on the open prairie. You might get lucky. I've had them within pistol range, but it's not something you can plan, and I didn't have a tag for the area where I got that close, so it didn't matter anyway.

However, without the pronghorns around, I think it'd be a waste of money for me to go get one of these Weatherbys. They're not cheap!

 

[DRYHUMOR]

308 trajectory doesn't suck...

It's called "lobbing". Kinda like a 30 30.

 

[wyohome]

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Home > Products > Ammunition > Ballistics > Comparative Ballistics Results

Ballistics Results

Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R30062 Remington® Express® 150 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.314
R308W1 Remington® Express® 150 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.314


Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2910 2617 2342 2083 1843 1622
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2820 2533 2263 2009 1774 1560


Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2820 2281 1827 1445 1131 876
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2648 2137 1705 1344 1048 810


Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 0.2 0.7 zero -2.2 -5.9 -11.4
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 0.0 zero -1.2 -3.9 -8.4 -14.7


Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 1.8 1.6 zero -3.2 -8.2 -24.4 -50.9
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2.0 1.7 zero -3.4 -8.8 -26.2 -54.8


Note: These ballistics reflected a test barrel length of 24" except those for 30 Carbine and 44 Remington Magnum which are 20" barrels.
Specifications are nominal. Ballistics figures established in test barrels. Individual rifles may vary from test barrel results.
“zero” indicates yardage at which rifle was sighted in.
* Inches above or below line of sight. Hold low for positive numbers, high for negative numbers.
1 Bullet does not rise more than 1" above line of sight from muzzle to sighting-in range.
2 Bullet does not rise more than 3" above line of sight from muzzle to sighting-in range.
† 280 Remington and 7mm Express Remington are interchangeable.
‡ 6mm Remington and 244 Remington are interchangeable.








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[sleepyone]

You have all the rifle you need right in that .270 Win, especially if loaded with 150 grain projectiles. The ballistic coefficient would be excellent due to the projectile length and weight, and the penetration excellent due to a high sectional density. On both accounts, it will go head-to-head with a .30-06 in 180 grain loads to whatever range you can hold it steady. Save your money toward your hunt. It won't matter to the dead game animal what you thumped it with! JMHO.

Geno

my M70 Featherweight 270 is my favorite gun. I could see adding a nice Featherweight 30-06 like Saturno V suggested to keep it company.

 

[wyohome]

It's called "lobbing". Kinda like a 30 30.

A less than 4 inch difference at 500 yards is hardly lobbing.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I knew that. Maybe the Neener failed to convey my intent.

Actually most rounds have somewhat similar trajectories, and some overlapping at certain ranges. The tale is told by the energy being delivered, and how quickly said energy dissipates.

 

[Art Eatman]

Seems to me that if a fella's gonna move up from deer to elk in some rather faroff future, competency with either the .270 or the .308 is about all that's needed. Spend the money on ammo, not another gun. Get away from the benchrest and shoot a bunch from field positions.

SFAIK, it's hard to rig a decent magnum rifle for under a grand or so. That'll buy a pretty good bit of .270 and/or .308 ammo...

 

[desidog]

Another thing to think about that i don't think has been covered here yet is that the magnums will wear out a barrel a lot quicker. I think average life is 3-5K rounds, but have no hard evidence of this.

I bought my M70 Featherweight in 300WSM knowing full well that i won't be using it that often...and it is a great gun!

 

[Uncle Mike]

.338 WIN.MAG. or the .325WSM.
A 30-06 launching Hornady 'Light Magnum' 165's or 180's(Hornady SST or Interbonds) will approach 300 WIN. MAG. performance! Very closely!

The .338 WIN.MAG. is probably the quintessential 'Medium' magnum, but don't overlook the excellent .325WSM if a shorter action, non-belted cartridge fits your fancy.

The ammo availability of the 338 is better than the 325, but like I always say, plan ahead, take plenty of bullwets!

Distributors were dumping the 'old' model 14 Classic Savages' in 325WSM, about a month ago for $450 dealer.

 

[jbech123]

If I want a bit less oomph than a .30-06, I'll take a .270 with a much flatter trajectory, not a .308.

To be fair, the .308 allows you to shoot heavier bullets